Character Discussion Mihawk’s “sense of self”

[ImmaIvanoM]

According to Mihawk, CoC users have an UNCHANGING “sense of self”. Supposedly this is what separates them from the rest of the verse

Lets try and find out what about Mihawk is unchanging that defines him

His WSS title.

The first thing that Mihawk says will not change is that he will “wait at the top of the world” for Zoro. According to Mihawk, he is at the very top of the world, of swordsmen, and That will NOT change no matter how long it takes Zoro to become a contender.

His morals.

According to his brief backstory, mihawk started hunting the marines out of some sense of justice due to a betrayal. He then more or less starts working with the marines as a Warlord supposedly after he has avenged this betrayal. And then he restarts his marine hunting as part of Cross guild, as a cover for Making money for Crocodile.

At no point does it seem to matter to Mihawk that the marines are the “good guys” on the side of “justice”. Mihawk decided that whatever justice he was owed meant that he can kill as many of them as is necessary and then afterwards he’s even fine being a warlord to prevent them from pestering him and now he’s hunting them for money.

Whatever Mihawk considers Right and Wrong seemingly transcends the marines and the WG and is unchanging in either direction, either antagonizing the WG or working for it doesn’t change what he’s decided is his justice.

His Black blade.

This is an external thing but Black blades have something to do with Haki and Haki is an internal thing. Yoru is unchanging by nature of supposedly being undamageable.

We’ve seen from Imu that hundreds of years old swords require magic powers to “revive” them to fighting shape yet Black Blade Shusui was buried with Ryuma for hundreds of Years and it was completely fine when it was dug up.

Maybe Mihawk’s unchanging “sense of self” has something to do with the way Black blades are made to seemingly be unchanging objects too. Like the unchanging nature of CoC itself gets transferred to the swords.

His isolation

Mihawk has shown that he CAN be part of a group such the Warlords or Cross guild. And mihawk CAN have companions like Perona, Zoro and Shanks. He CAN be around people, he just doesn’t value anyone when it comes to his actual goals.

His goal is strength and Mihawk doesn’t value anyone in that regard. Zoro says he fights and gets stronger for his crew, Mihawk fights and gets stronger for himself.

Mihawk has been around so many people and groups with so many ideologies and yet above anyone he’s ever met, he remains isolated because the only thing he really cares about is his own Strength which he grows only for himself.

Mihawk is quite literally the only character in the story so isolated that he is strong for the sake of being strong and for no one but himself.

Think about that, not even the villains like Doffy, Teach or Kaido are this self-obsessed and self-isolating. Even freaking Imu is seemingly close to the Holy knights and the Gorosei and has this Ideology around Domination that he follows.

I actually think this is why Zoro looked at S-Hawk and said Mihawk is LESS HUMAN than a mind-controlled Cyborg clone. At least S-hawk has an objective given to him by other people. Mihawk by contrast doesn’t give a shit about anyone or anything but himself to an inhuman degree.

 

[uyuu]

I can't help but think that it's you that wants Mihawk to have the strongest conqueror of all. But few things:

- Until now, Mihawk hasn't even shown CoC or being recognized due to his CoC. His CoC has never been highlighted like his sword. Shanks, Kaidou, Luffy, WB, all of them have prominent and recognized CoC. Shanks' CoC was even compared to JoyBoy.
- Mihawk shown no ambition for himself, he just wants to be alone. This contradict what Conquerors in One Piece do, attract people.
- if Mihawk is more inhuman that S-Hawk, it would properly mean that Mihawk is less ambitious and less self-centered. A robot does orders from others. Mihawk being more inhuman would mean that Mihawk is more obedient to command, meaning less having oneself-ness or self-centeredness

 

[Killerj]

Mihawk should be in impel down.lvl 6 not free talking about coc, zo.l.o will murk him soon, so its all good.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

I can't help but think that it's you that wants Mihawk to have the strongest conqueror of all

Is that what I said in this Post?

who are you talking to?

can you point to part of my post where I said this)

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Mihawk should be in impel down.lvl 6 not free talking about coc, zo.l.o will murk him soon, so it’s all good.

… what?

 

[The Legend]

Thread closed

 

[nik87]

Wait until Mihawk does a release, freeing all the stored haki inside Yoru.
Ban-kai!
As @L57 would say >when I walk the streets of Poland, all the rats faint.

Regarding his statement about the Sense of self...
...I dont know what exactly he means with it.
He already explained previously that Color of Conquerors is haki that resists all change.

 

[Chiji_]

Was it unchangeable or unshakeable?

 

[OykotsTreasure]

This might be a opportunity for me to talk about something I've been mulling over. Something that...people are gonna get MAD at me about. But, I need to write this out, and see if it holds any water. Maybe it's nonsense. But, it's nonsense that I need to get out of my system.

Is it possible that Mihawk HAD CoC..and then lost it?

Is it possible that Mihawk knows that you need a "sense of self" to use CoC, because he's lost his?

I think people have kind of assumed that once you unlock CoC, it stays unlocked. You either have it or you don't. Once you get it, you can make it stronger, but why would it ever get WEAKER? But, if CoC is tied to something as psychological as a "sense of self", then that means any sort of mental "hiccup" could cause you problems with using your CoC.

Think of it like a all-star athlete who gets the yips. It's not that they suddenly got "weaker" or lost their skill or experience. It's just that there's a disconnect between their mind and body, that's keeping them from performing at their highest level.

Which is a comparison that I think tracks. When we first met Mihawk, it was around the Baratie, in the East Blue. Otherwise known as "The Weakest Sea". Why was the Strongest Swordsman in the World in the Weakest Sea in the first place? Well, I think it makes sense, if we imagine that Mihawk was trying to start again from scratch. Trying to re-teach himself the fundamentals, in order to get his CoC back. Mihawk may have been trying to ease himself into getting his groove back.

Basically, this is Mihawk's theme song:

(Yeah...Mihawk seems like a "ska" kinda guy. The pretentious so-and-so... )

Because Mihawk almost certainly CAN use CoC. Or at least he could at one point. He knows enough about CoC to teach Zoro about it. He's strong enough to stand toe-to-to against some of the strongest fighters in the World. He forged one of the only Black Blades in the story. Mihawk KNOWS his CoC. But, we've never seen him use it. Why?




Well, again, I think it has something to do with "Dreams". I've talked a little about it before, and after thinking it over, I'm sticking with it, at least until we get more information on the subject. I think it's pretty likely that one's "sense of self" is tied directly to "envisioning the future" that you want to make real. If you want to be a Conqueror, first you must conquer the future, itself!
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/what-is-this-disney-ass-“sense-of-self”-nonsense.88680/page-2#post-6873655

Personally, I think the problem is that Mihawk did not have a "never-ending dream". A type of dream that you can spend your whole life chasing, without ever being able to stop. The type of dream where there is no definitive endpoint. It's more of a way of life.

I think Mihawk likely had a "finite dream". The type of goal where once you finally do the thing you've been striving for...you're kinda done. I think it's likely that Mihawk's dream was to become The World's Strongest Swordsman. And after he achieved that...he didn't really know what to do with himself, afterward.

Let's compare that to Luffy's dream to become the King of the Pirates. Now, on the surface, that also sounds like a "finite dream". But, we now know that Luffy's REAL dream involves something AFTER becoming the King of the Pirates. The King title is just a stepping stone so that he can work on achieving something else, down the road. Personally, I think it's so that he can "make sure his friends never go hungry again", but that's a bit of a tangent. But, chances are, Luffy's true dream is also of the "never-ending" variety.

Even Whitebeard's dream to have a family of his own, and to make sure they were all cared for, is more of a "never-ending dream". He wanted to live life, surrounded by people he cared for, for the rest of his life. That also sounds pretty "never-ending" to me.

Although, I will admit, this line of thought is kind of contradicted by Blackbeard also being famously pro-"never-ending dream", and Luffy and Zoro's negative reaction to Blackbeard saying that.

(Chapter 225)

I'm still not totally sure what to make of this scene. But, Luffy and Zoro seem very anti-"never-ending dream" from their reaction. So, there is that. But...maybe they're really just against EXPLOITING that system in order to try to achieve eternal life or reincarnation or whatever is going on with Blackbeard? They might be against having a type of dream, that you just follow for some ulterior motive. For now...let's just ignore that little detail. It's too vague to say anything definitive about, anyway.




Back on topic, the idea is that Mihawk's problem is that the dream that carried him so far, and helped him create the future he wanted where he's the World's Strongest Swordsman...ended. Does that track? Personally, I think it does.

Because, to me, Mihawk actually doesn't seem like he's obsessed with getting stronger. He kinda stopped going out into the World and looking for challengers to overcome. He actually seemed pretty content just...staying home, and drinking wine, and reading quietly by himself. Mihawk just kind of...stopped living. He stopped striving for more, because he was content with what he had. His biggest rival, Shanks, was no longer a fair match because of his lost arm. And no one else could challenge him. So...he was just done. And since he was done...his CoC left him.

When Vista challenged him, he declined. When Perona asked for his help saving Moria, he declined. Shanks likely asked Mihawk to join his crew, and he probably declined. He trained Zoro a bit, but it's a little unclear how much of that was him sparring with Zoro, and how much of that was Zoro fighting Humandrils. These feel, to me, like a person who's lost his direction. Who doesn't know what to do with himself, anymore. Who doesn't want to commit to anything, because he doesn't want to go down any one path until he's sure it's the direction he wants to take. Mihawk refuses to take a side, any side, and that's his biggest problem. He's so disconnected from the rest of the world, that he has nothing left to motivate him.

Which is why I think Oda put Mihawk on Cross Guild. Because the theme of Cross Guild seems to be "people who have lost their way". Crocodile also seemed like he needed a new goal in life, a new dream to try to make come true. People who have kind of stalled out, in life. And being a part of Cross Guild is kind of FORCING them to act, whether they like it or not. Being a part of Cross Guild is FORCING these people down a path, whether they like it or not. If Mihawk's problem is that he can't commit to a new dream or goal, then Cross Guild is a way of forcing him to act, and to try new things. Cross Guild is FORCING Mihawk to socialize, even if he hates it. And being around other people can change how you view yourself.

Because part of the problem may be the "unchanging" part of all this, for Mihawk. Maybe Mihawk is a little TOO committed to a old version of himself? Because, as you get older, a person can change. Goals changes, priorities shift. Being completely "unchanging" is may be the wrong goal to have. Having a "sense of self" may not be about NEVER changing. But, being aware of yourself enough to be aware of those changes. To know yourself well enough to know that you've changed, and adjust accordingly. And, for better or worse, being a part of Cross Guild will likely force Mihawk to change. Or to reevaluate who he is, deep down, in the present day. Some things about yourself CAN change. But, some things don't. Some things about yourself CAN remain "unshakable". Morals, values, goals, etc. And being aware of the difference might be what Mihawk himself, needs to learn. Being determined is not the same as being stubborn. Being uncompromising is not the same thing as being stagnant. There comes a time when even strong determination can become a hindrance.





So, I think that's how I see Mihawk's character, at the moment. He used to have CoC...but then lost it, when he achieved his dream. He's a MVP, who needs to get his groove back. In order to do that, he's going to have to find a new dream he wants to achieve. A new future he can envision for himself and make manifest. A reason to actually use his awesome strength. And, by the end of the series, I think we'll see that happen. Probably JUST in time for his big rematch with Zoro. (Or maybe during it?) I could be VERY off track on all of this, but I think it is a solid possibility. It gives Mihawk a actual character arc to go through, that we will have seen play out through this entire manga. He's still the World's Strongest Swordsman, but he needs to learn that even he still has room to grow.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Was it unchangeable or unshakeable?

The title of the chapter is about “impermanence”

Mihawk is saying that everything changes except CoC

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

think people have kind of assumed that once you unlock CoC, it stays unlocked

Mihawk literally says that everything in the world changes EXCEPT CoC

He says that CoC users are only CoC users because they have this specific thing. An UNCHANGING “sense of self”

everyone else can have their “sense of self” be changed or lost or diminished but then that just means they aren’t CoC users to begin with

basically, being a CoC user = not being able to change

 

[OykotsTreasure]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That viewpoint might be part of Mihawk's problem. Because it's nonsense.

You're saying Zoro hasn't changed? The former loner who didn't need ANYBODY who's now one of the most loyal members of Luffy's Crew?

Your saying that Rayleigh never changed? Even though we saw Rayleigh bend on God Valley and admit that he had feelings for Shakky?

You're saying Whitebeard never changed? Even though he went and became the captain of his own crew, instead of someone else's subordinate? Even when he finally became a "father", like he dreamed of?

You're saying that Big Mom never changed? Even though, she CLEARLY lost herself as the years went on, and became more obsessed with growing her family and territory, at the cost of everything else? Big Mom on God Valley is CLEARLY the exact same type of person who was thrown into a volcano at Wano?

You're saying that LUFFY has never changed?! Not even a little? The guy who famously transforms into a dozen different forms? The guy who had to overcome Ace's death and value the worth of his own crew? The guy who started out as a bratty little kid, and became a much more upbeat teenager that we know now? The guy who's constantly stealing ideas from his own enemies to use against them? THAT Luffy?!

Mihawk's problem is potentially that he's taken that "unchanging" attitude too far. Because you can take ANY ideology too far.

I think a key part of CoC IS finding your "unchanging core". The part of you that doesn't change no matter what. Your anchor point. The thing you are determined to do, no matter what anyone else says to the contrary. Your dream, that you want to make into reality. But, that doesn't mean not letting ANYTHING about yourself change. Remaining true to yourself is not the same thing as never letting yourself change at all. If that were true there would be no growth. And no one's CoC would EVER get any stronger. Finding a piece of yourself that you aren't willing to change isn't the same thing as nothing about yourself changing.

What Mihawk has done has been to basically "freeze" himself at the moment in time when he was at his strongest. He hasn't let anyone new into his heart or his life. He's kept everyone at a distance, just so they couldn't see any flaws that might already be there, if they got a closer look. That's not "living", that's becoming a impressive statue in a museum.

Mihawk probably is a expert on CoC, but that doesn't mean he's perfect, and it doesn't mean he knows everything. What we've heard is his opinion on the matter. Not necessarily the full truth. Especially since Oda loves his twists. Chances are, Oda will reveal there's more to it down the line.

If Mihawk is ever to have any sort of a character arc in this story, that means he has to be shown to have changed, at some point. Otherwise, he'd be a VERY flat character. And there are already moments where that facade has already begun to show it's cracks. Laughing at Zoro's request to train him. Being flustered by Buggy's dream. There's more to Mihawk than just being "The Perfect Swordsman". I think he just needs to see that for himself.

"Reeds bend in the wind, while mighty oaks break". Mihawk, possibly as showcased by his trademark eyes, has become TOO obsessed with a single goal, that ended long ago. Mihawk needs to learn to be less "perfect" if he wants to grow. A reed does not become a completely different plant when the wind blows. A reed remains a reed. But, a reed bends, where a oak does not, and so is better able to survive a storm. You CAN change parts of yourself, while still retaining the core of what you are.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Oak_and_the_Reed

I could very well be wrong with my interpretation. But, whatever the truth about Mihawk turns out to be, I don't think we'll be able to see him as just "The Perfect Swordsman" by the end of the story. I'd rather Mihawk was a actual character, rather than just a obstacle for Zoro to overcome.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

You're saying Zoro hasn't changed?

We aren’t led to believe that “sense of self” is a synonym for “personality” or “goals” or “choices”

It’s more intrinsic than surface level stuff like that

let’s use the most fleshed out CoC user as a case study, Luffy

Remember that Shanks gave up his arm for Kid Luffy because Kid Luffy said something similar to Roger.

shanks bet his arm on Kid Luffy staying the SAME from childhood all the way up to when Luffy fulfilled Roger’s dream. How could Shanks know that whatever similarity between kid Luffy and Roger would never change for years upon years?

Btw I’m not talking about Luffy having surface level changes, like him growing as leader or his improvement in battle, or even his feelings around losing Ace.

All that can change when it comes to Luffy, but Shanks bet that SOMETHING about Luffy CANNOT CHANGE, For however many years it takes for Luffy to save the world. And this UNCHANGING THING, is that the “sense of self”

Zoro has changed, on the surface, but deep down he hasnt, he can’t. If Mihawk were to stab Zoro’s heart again like he did in Baratie, Zoro again today would NOT back off the knife. Current Day Zoro would die for his dream the exact same way Chapter 51 Zoro would. It doesn’t matter how many other things about him have changed. THIS WILL NOT CHANGE

That viewpoint might be part of Mihawk's problem. Because it's nonsense.

Okay so then what do you think chapter 1194 was about then?

At the end of the chapter Zoro has his CoC under control. Zoro gets his CoC under control after having this flashback of Mihawk explaining the essence of CoC. But you think Mihawk is talking nonsense… so what exactly was this chapter about and how come Zoro has his CoC under control?

what has changed in this chapter exactly for Zoro to be different at the end of chapter from the start of the chapter if your assertion is that Zoro just remembered wrong nonsense Words from Mihawk in between?

 

[sanjikun]

I think you're overthinking it.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

I think you're overthinking it.

I mean aren’t you expecting Sanji’s entire situation to revolve around this?

I mean all the Sanji fans have been shouting about how Sanji’s gonna get some momentus character writing… aren’t you expecting now that it’s gonna be about this “sense of self” stuff?

or are you saying that you expect this for Sanji but it shouldn’t matter for anyone else?

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

I can't help but think that it's you that wants Mihawk to have the strongest conqueror of all. But few things:

- Until now, Mihawk hasn't even shown CoC or being recognized due to his CoC. His CoC has never been highlighted like his sword. Shanks, Kaidou, Luffy, WB, all of them have prominent and recognized CoC. Shanks' CoC was even compared to JoyBoy.
- Mihawk shown no ambition for himself, he just wants to be alone. This contradict what Conquerors in One Piece do, attract people.
- if Mihawk is more inhuman that S-Hawk, it would properly mean that Mihawk is less ambitious and less self-centered. A robot does orders from others. Mihawk being more inhuman would mean that Mihawk is more obedient to command, meaning less having oneself-ness or self-centeredness

He more obedient to command but they were surprised he was at Warlord meeting and left MF before orders. This don't make a lick of sense. Then Zoro literally says he doesn't believe Mihawk is the type to work under somebody in cross guilt. You make 0 sense.

 

[OykotsTreasure]

what has changed in this chapter exactly for Zoro to be different at the end of chapter from the start of the chapter if your assertion is that Zoro just remembered wrong nonsense Words from Mihawk in between?

Personally, I think what changed was that Zoro was finally able to have a more concrete visualization of what he wanted his future to be. He was able to "envision his future". He was able to actually "see" a future where he was "The King of Hell".

I'll point out, Zoro was finally able to start using CoC when Sommers said he'd NEVER be a king, that he just didn't have what it took. I think that was the trigger, here. Saying he didn't have the qualities of a king, made Zoro think, for a split second, about what that actually would mean, if Zoro WAS a king. Although, Zoro himself still seems pretty confused about what exactly changed, too.

...Which, I'll admit, if that WAS the case, Oda probably could have given us a PANEL actually showing us that. What was running through Zoro's mind when he was finally able to shoot off a blast of CoC. A panel of Zoro imagining himself on a throne of skulls or something.

But, I think part of the problem here is, Oda's probably still holding a *little* bit back for the Sanji fight. Whatever's going on here, probably should be made a bit more clear during Sanji's fight, if we are to assume he's going to fully unlock CoC, too. Unless Sanji's going in a completely different direction with "The Power of Love" or something. But, Oda's put a lot of emphasis on Conqueror's, lately. So, chances are, Sanji's getting CoC.

I think all the time that Zoro spent thinking and testing out how his CoC work just paid off. It really made Zoro stop and think for a bit, which allowed him to think through what being a "Conqueror" actually means for him, and his potential future.

Zoro was probably "underthinking" his future, just reacting to everything around him. I don't think Zoro really thought too hard about what it would be like if he was a "King" before this. Not seriously. Calling yourself "The King of Hell" sounds cool. But, it's another thing to think about what you actually MEAN by that.

I'm personally expecting Sanji to have the opposite problem. Sanji is probably "overthinking" his future. Envisioning too many different conflicting potential futures, all at the same time, instead of focusing on just one. Sanji's hangups about his past and his inner nature and his family history probably will have a hand in all that. That way, we can have two similar, but still different inner conflicts occurring during this arc.

Zoro needed to learn to think ahead a little more. Sanji probably needs to learn to be more in the moment. Two different problems that lead them to the same place. That would be a nice parallel to have, during this arc.

And it's not so much that EVERYTHING that Mihawk said was "nonsense". It's just putting too much emphasis on the "unchanging" part that seems to be nonsense, to me. The core of what Mihawk said is right, just not how it's emphasized.

shanks bet his arm on Kid Luffy staying the SAME from childhood all the way up to when Luffy fulfilled Roger’s dream. How could Shanks know that whatever similarity between kid Luffy and Roger would never change for years upon years?

Well, that's the thing that helps support my point.

If you go ALL the way back to Chapter 1 of this story, what IS the moment where Shanks decides to give Luffy his Strawhat?

It's when Luffy tells Shanks that he's STILL planning on being the King of the Pirates.

Even after everything lil' Luffy had been through up until then. After having his dream mocked by Shanks' entire crew. After losing the ability to swim after eating a "useless" Devil Fruit. After almost being killed by a bandit. After almost being eaten by a sea monster. After the guy he looked up to lost a arm trying to protect him...he still wanted to fulfill his DREAM.

That determination to see his dream through and to make it reality IS what Conqueror's all about, I think. That's Luffy's true north. That's what guides him. Dreams are the key to Conquerors. And the determination to make them into reality is what awakens your power. Luffy didn't let any setbacks stop him from wanting to fulfill his dream. His dream was still crystal clear in his mind. That dream for the future IS Luffy's "unchanging core".

And I think it's kind of the same for Oda, himself.

For years, he's said that he's got the last page of this manga planned out. He knows what that last page will be, and he's looking forward to getting to draw it. That's the future he's trying to manifest into reality.

...But, everything before that last page is more loose. He has a goal, but how he gets there can change, due to circumstances or whims or just changing his mind. So, Oda allows himself to take his time. Or to go off on tangents. Or to create a dozen new characters he didn't have plans for before. Because that's fine. Because his goal is still crystal clear in his mind. He can still envision his future, even though he rolls with other changes happening around him.

So, I think that might be the key to CoC. Having a clear vision for the future that you're trying to reach. But, allowing yourself some flexibility on how you're willing to get there. A "unchanging" final goal...but a "changeable" route on how you get there.

The Color of Conqueror's...is black. Just like the ink on a page. And you use it to "draw" the future that you want to see.

(...Did that sound deep? I think that sounded pretty deep! Hopefully, I'm not horribly wrong! That'd be REAL embarrassing!)

But, in Mihawk's case, I think he may have lost his ability to do that. Either because he's lost sight of any goal, or because he's too stubborn in trying to do it in only one certain way, or a little bit of both. Mihawk has lost his "inner balance", more or less, and probably needs to find it again.

...Maybe? Again, we're all speculating based on very little evidence, right now. But it sounds right, to me, at this particular moment. So, we'll see. I think it'd make for a solid enough character arc for Mihawk, in retrospect. But, it might not be what Oda has planned. Who knows?

 

[sanjikun]

I mean aren’t you expecting Sanji’s entire situation to revolve around this?

I mean all the Sanji fans have been shouting about how Sanji’s gonna get some momentus character writing… aren’t you expecting now that it’s gonna be about this “sense of self” stuff?

or are you saying that you expect this for Sanji but it shouldn’t matter for anyone else?

Oda will use it when it's plot relevant, but he's not be gonna consistent about it.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

I think all the time that Zoro spent thinking and testing out how his CoC work just paid off

So nothing then? Zoro just kept wishing it happened and now it works

that interlude of Oda throwing a bunch of nonsense words in this 12 page long chapter was what? A red herring? What does you think this entire even even was?

why is the Dialogue of Mihawk talking about this unchanging “sense of self” written in the same panel as Zoro puts his bandanna on and starts using CoC?

I’m asking again, What do you think this chapter was even about?

Well, that's the thing that helps support my point.

If you go ALL the way back to Chapter 1 of this story, what IS the moment where Shanks decides to give Luffy his Strawhat?

It's when Luffy tells Shanks that he's STILL planning on being the King of the Pirates.

Even after everything lil' Luffy had been through up until then. After having his dream mocked by Shanks' entire crew. After losing the ability to swim after eating a "useless" Devil Fruit. After almost being killed by a bandit. After almost being eaten by a sea monster. After the guy he looked up to lost a arm trying to protect him...he still wanted to fulfill his DREAM.

That determination to see his dream through and to make it reality IS what Conqueror's all about, I think

Well that’s a problem for Sanji then since Sanji has abandoned fulfilling his dream many times.

you’re saying Luffy’s refusal to ever abandon his dream is what makes him a CoC user? Or it’s what gives him CoC? I don’t know what you’re saying

either way, Sanji has done the opposite all throughout the series. And no, you cant say “Well now when he unlocks CoC he will stop doing this”. Neither Luffy or Zoro needed to unlock CoC first to have this convinction around their dreams, the we’re like that from childhood. so that doesn’t work with Sanji.

It’s kind of bizarre how your entire screed is that what you believe with no proof in the story is correct and what a character in the story has said is nonsense.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Oda will use it when it's plot relevant, but he's not be gonna consistent about it.

I usually agree any time Oda’s bad writing is evoked but in this instance, Oda is weirdly consistent

I mean this idea almost explains Luffy constant shouting “I’m monkey d Luffy the man who will be pirate king”… if the idea is that CoC is about recognizing an unchanging core part yourself, then Luffy’s constant assertion of who he is might actually be one of Oda’s best consistent writing