Worstgen
Dark Admiral
Yeah, he has Ashura up his sleeve but we still don’t know if he has mastered it and how strong it would make him. And King is an Ancient Zoan who is possibly an awakened one too. His durability will be on whole another level. We’ve already seen the durability feat of the Beast Pirates on several occasions. Even Luffy will have an extreme/ high diff win without his FS and Udon haki training against King.
Dark Admiral
There was a word limit. Lol
Btw I disagree on DR Zoro being stronger than Law. Physically he might be but on overall 1 vs 1, Law would have high diffed Zoro. Law has an oP DF and uses it on a very versatile way. If Kaido low diffed Pre Udon Luffy, King would have mid-high Zoro. After the Wano training, Zoro could at the best extreme diff King and I’m being generous here. But that’s all my opinion..!!
Btw I disagree on DR Zoro being stronger than Law. Physically he might be but on overall 1 vs 1, Law would have high diffed Zoro. Law has an oP DF and uses it on a very versatile way. If Kaido low diffed Pre Udon Luffy, King would have mid-high Zoro. After the Wano training, Zoro could at the best extreme diff King and I’m being generous here. But that’s all my opinion..!!
Cinera
@Dark Admiral
* Zoro has only had one extreme diff fight in the series. He rarely has them.
* If Luffy and Sanji have mastered G2/G3 and DJ, then there's no reason for Zoro to not have mastered Asura.
* I disagree on DR Law being significantly stronger than DR Zoro.
* Preskip Asura raised Zoro's offensive ability by a few levels, post skip is probably similar.
* Pre FS Luffy couldn't beat King.
* Zoro has only had one extreme diff fight in the series. He rarely has them.
* If Luffy and Sanji have mastered G2/G3 and DJ, then there's no reason for Zoro to not have mastered Asura.
* I disagree on DR Law being significantly stronger than DR Zoro.
* Preskip Asura raised Zoro's offensive ability by a few levels, post skip is probably similar.
* Pre FS Luffy couldn't beat King.
Cinera
* It's not even certain Pre Udon Luffy can. Post Udon, Luffy should pull the win.
* Zoro is not Luffy, you can't use what you imagine Luffy's performance to be to extrapolate Zoro's.
The Enma training only improved his haki, it's not enough to turn a mid diff loss into a high diff win.
* Zoro is not Luffy, you can't use what you imagine Luffy's performance to be to extrapolate Zoro's.
The Enma training only improved his haki, it's not enough to turn a mid diff loss into a high diff win.
Cinera
@Topi Jerami I think you raised some good counters to my hypothesis yesterday:
* Boundman didn't defeat Doflamingo on the first try.
* RS Sanji didn't get a clear W against Page One.
Zoro has also been foreshadowed to learn how to cut fire, and this would qualify as a power up and may happen against King. In that case, he isn't already stronger than King.
* Boundman didn't defeat Doflamingo on the first try.
* RS Sanji didn't get a clear W against Page One.
Zoro has also been foreshadowed to learn how to cut fire, and this would qualify as a power up and may happen against King. In that case, he isn't already stronger than King.
Cinera
Ultimately, I think that they are enough caveats, that "Zoro is stronger than King" isn't the most likely scenario. It's currently plausible, but I don't think I'll bet on this.
I would amend my earlier statement to: "Zoro may already be stronger than King".
I would amend my earlier statement to: "Zoro may already be stronger than King".
Dark Admiral
Hmm, this is turning out to be an interesting discussion here. How strong do you think the post- time skip Zoro was.? And I mean the one who returned back to Sabaody. Because fighting against the top tiers while pushing yourself to the limits will help you grow stronger in terms of haki and battle experience. Post TS Zoro has rarely even broken a sweat in a battle while Luffy has faced Mingo, Hody, Cracker and Kata..
Dark Admiral
..to have his haki and battle experience sharpened. IMO Luffy has gotten hell lot of stronger than what he initially came back as from his 2 years of training. He is tier/s ahead of Zoro now which led me believe he could have taken down King pre Udon too.
The only significant training wheel Zoro has after TS is Enma. So unless we believe on Zoro facing opponents like Mingo & others..
The only significant training wheel Zoro has after TS is Enma. So unless we believe on Zoro facing opponents like Mingo & others..
Dark Admiral
Stupid word limits.. lol
..during his 2 yrs training, he shouldn’t be stronger than King. He mastered the swordsmanship under Mihawk and had knowledge about haki but he never got enough of chance to push himself to limits in a real death battle to hone his skills. King would be his first real battle after TS who will push him to his limits.
And again, how strong was Sabaody Zoro was in your opinion.?
..during his 2 yrs training, he shouldn’t be stronger than King. He mastered the swordsmanship under Mihawk and had knowledge about haki but he never got enough of chance to push himself to limits in a real death battle to hone his skills. King would be his first real battle after TS who will push him to his limits.
And again, how strong was Sabaody Zoro was in your opinion.?
Cinera
I think postskip Zoro was a peak low high tier/bottom mid high tier (say YC 3.5) with Santoryu.
I think with Asura he should have been a peak mid high tier or bottom high high tier (YC 1.5).
Over all, I guess I would place post skip Zoro in the YC 2 range. He could already beat the likes of Jack, Queen and Smoothie (with Asura if not without). He may have already been able to beat Cracker without Asura.
I think with Asura he should have been a peak mid high tier or bottom high high tier (YC 1.5).
Over all, I guess I would place post skip Zoro in the YC 2 range. He could already beat the likes of Jack, Queen and Smoothie (with Asura if not without). He may have already been able to beat Cracker without Asura.
Cinera
Post Enma training, Zoro should be a solid mid high tier in base (at least YC 2.5, maybe even YC 2). With Asura he'll be a solid high high tier (at least YC 1, maybe even higher). Overall, he's at least YC 1.5, maybe even solid YC 1.
Cinera
@Dark Admiral I agree that Luffy has gotten a lot stronger than when he came back over the timeskip, but IMO, Zoro returned from the timeskip stronger than Luffy. Even if you don't agree with that, Base Zoro was at least a level above G2/G3 Luffy.
Cinera
* He demonstrated significantly superior attack speed to G2/G3 Luffy.
* He demonstrated substantially superior offensive prowess to G3 Luffy.
* His COA was much stronger than Luffy.
* His COO was comparable/on par.
* His range was much greater.
* His CQC abilities were much greater
* His lethality is greater.
* He demonstrated substantially superior offensive prowess to G3 Luffy.
* His COA was much stronger than Luffy.
* His COO was comparable/on par.
* His range was much greater.
* His CQC abilities were much greater
* His lethality is greater.
Cinera
Santoryu Zoro beat Dressrosa G2/G3 Luffy somewhere in the high diff category. I conservatively extrapolate Asura based on its preskip accomplishments. So overall, Zoro was stronger than Luffy until WCI.
Akai2
LOL this post's comments section should be a thread *Grabs Popcorn*
Finalbeta
Cinera loves profile posting and I love posting in general it seems like :P
Dark Admiral
If Zoro did “indeed” return stronger than Luffy after TS. He should be stronger than King now..!!
Finalbeta
Yes indeed :P also he is the only SH who underwent not 1 but 2 haki trainings but people always underrate this aspect
Cinera
> If Zoro did “indeed” return stronger than Luffy after TS. He should be stronger than King now..!!
@Dark Admiral not really, Luffy has grown massively more than Zoro postskip.
Zoro's gains so far:
* Enma training
- COA control and strength improved.
@Dark Admiral not really, Luffy has grown massively more than Zoro postskip.
Zoro's gains so far:
* Enma training
- COA control and strength improved.
Cinera
Luffy's gains so far:
* Extreme diff fight with Doflamingo
- G4 improved?
- Stamina?
- Endurance?
- Haki (he couldn't block Hody's bite before, but became able to block Doffy's hardened attacks).
* Extreme diff fight with Doflamingo
- G4 improved?
- Stamina?
- Endurance?
- Haki (he couldn't block Hody's bite before, but became able to block Doffy's hardened attacks).