Worstgen

M

MD Zolo

Then you have missed the purpose of a debate. If a topic has an accurate answer, it is not debate-worthy.

The point of debate is not to come to a conclusion. It is to give avenue for advocates of both side to affirm their views. Sometimes, that process can sway neutrals and opposition members, but swaying is rarely the end goal.

Cinera

> The important part is discussing with logical arguments, politely, and with an open mind about a subject.

I do this. I may still continue debating, but essay writing is a very non trivial endeavour. If the essays don't work the time could have been better spent elsewhere.

Cinera

> Then you have missed the purpose of a debate

Nah, I simply disagree that should be the purpose of a debate. I personally am not interested in debates for that purpose. I mean sure, perhaps most people use debates like that, but I'm not interested in it.

RayanOO

People can have different opinions while being fair and true in their arguments. If we had all the answers and if there was a good and a bad answer things would be a lot easier (and less fun). At the minimum the bullshit in both sides can be erased by posters.
People can give their thought opinions and the debate can happen.

Cinera

I think debates that don't leave both parties (and the audience) better informed and with more accurate positions on the topic of contention are exercises in futility.

RayanOO

But if people on both sides make good arguments then the other readers can have a better understanding of the topic and they can choose what they want to beleive after that. After a topic like that readers are better informed and have more accurate positions : but both positions can still live.
So it is still a succes.

M

MD Zolo

Removing misinformation is definitely one of the main purposes of a debate. Both I and Rayan00 agree to that.

But reaching a more accurate position? That can only happen if the topic has an (at least almost) accurate answer. Most of the time, after debate, audience will decide if a side won the debate. In another words, a party wins when it convinced most members of the audience.

Yo Tan Wa

@Cinera you should continue doing so if you enjoy it. Self satisfaction is what matters in the end. Since People won't always agree to your views despite you putting much efforts into it. Like I didn't this time.

Yo Tan Wa

Bt we also still appreciate the hard work you put into making such detailed posts, and i think this is true for most fans here.

And i may have not completely agreed to it, but you definitely give me more clarity on many points, and your posts always does.

Finalbeta

It's not worth it. Amazing effort is not well repayed on here sadly.

Finalbeta

By the way expecially if your hand isn't yet completely recovered.

Cinera

> Most of the time, after debate, audience will decide if a side won the debate. In another words, a party wins when it convinced most members of the audience.

@MD Zolo: yeah this is true. But I view such debates as sport, and don't think too highly of the sport of the debate.

Cinera

The simplest way to explain it is that I don't approach a debate with the intention of convincing the audience or my interlocutor of my current position. My goal is that after the debate, everyone involved (the participants and the spectators) would have more informed and accurate positions on the topic. For this reason I often consider the arguments for and against my current position.

Cinera

I often end up with a different position at the end of an essay than the one I had when I started writing it (this wouldn't happen if I was solely writing the essay to affirm my position and advocate for it).

Cinera

I regularly list the core reasons I hold a belief, and what would cause me to change my credence for or against a particular positon.

Cinera

Again, that's not an action compatible with trying to "win" a debate. Trying to win debates, trying to convince others of your position, I think it makes a sport of discourse and I consider it bad faith engagement.

I personally do not do it.

Cinera

I am always willing to change my positions. I regularly change my positions while preparing my essays. Changing your mind is not a bad thing. I can't really be on board with a debate setting where changing your mind is a "loss"/"defeat".

Cinera

Yes, there is a phenomenon of debate as sport, but it's one that I reject.

M

MD Zolo

Then...what if your opposition decided that they are now well informed and their position is still the correct one? By your logic, they have arrived at the accurate answer but they haven't changed their minds.

Like I said, changing minds is not the goal of any debate.

Cinera

@MD Zolo in that case, I should be the one to change my mind for the debate to be successful (this happens regularly!). People I regularly debate with (e.g. @Admiral Lee Hung can attest that I change my mind *a lot*).

If I do not change my mind and my interlocutor(s) don't change their minds (at all) then the debate was mostly pointless.