Worstgen
Lee Ba Shou
Rayleigh is not physically better than Kuri. Kuri’s base punches = Red Hawk, Rayleigh’s advanced CoA could not KO the Rusukaina elephant.
Lee Ba Shou
A base Gear 2 punch can take out a Pacifista, and Kuri’s literal base punches are far above that. Pacifista are made of steel which I’m pretty sure are far more durable than the Rusukaina elephants.
silverfire
Kizaru mid diffs Ray, low diffs Marco/Katakuri. Old Ray high diffs the commanders. Prime Ray pushes uncle to extreme diff and mid diffs the commanders.
Edit: it’s not that I put Rayleigh lower, but I put Kizaru at the very top, narrowly above Mihawk which the majority disagrees with.
Edit: it’s not that I put Rayleigh lower, but I put Kizaru at the very top, narrowly above Mihawk which the majority disagrees with.
Cinera
@Admiral Lee Hung Ray wasn't trying to KO the elephant. He just reflected the elephant's attack back at it. Of course it wouldn't be KOed from it's own attack.
Cinera
I doubt the Pacifista are more durable than the animals, as Luffy required G4 for some of Rusukina's animals.
Gol D. Roger
@Admiral Lee Hung Rayleigh KO'ed the elephant with COC. Do you seriously believe he couldn't KO it with COA? He was merely defending from the attack using Haki shield.
Besides, Rusukaina has animals that could fight early stages of G4. The elephant could be one of those for all we know....
Besides, Rusukaina has animals that could fight early stages of G4. The elephant could be one of those for all we know....
Lee Ba Shou
@Gol D. Roger KOing with CoA and CoC are two unrelated things. Doing one doesn’t mean you can do the other.
@Cinera thats a good point about luffy needing Gear 4, and I’m not saying that Rayleigh *can’t* KO the elephant with CoA, just that there’s no point in assuming his brute power is > Kuri when he’s never demonstrated that, and Kuri actually has had some very impressive brute power showings
@Cinera thats a good point about luffy needing Gear 4, and I’m not saying that Rayleigh *can’t* KO the elephant with CoA, just that there’s no point in assuming his brute power is > Kuri when he’s never demonstrated that, and Kuri actually has had some very impressive brute power showings
Lee Ba Shou
I think Oda wants us to get the message with Kuri that due to FS, as far as his reaction and attack speed goes, he is one of the most broken characters in the series. He described himself as being invincible when he uses FS lol, and I personally think we can infer from Rayleigh’s words that Rayleigh does not have FS himself
Cinera
I agree that Rayleigh doesn't have FS, but Kuri has clearly never fought top tiers before, and Rayleigh *is* a top tier.
Like Prime Oden was about to two shot Kaido, that's the lethality top tier swordsmen have. Ray has grown weaker with age and lost stamina, but he still has the highest levels of armament and top tier swordsmanship.
Like Prime Oden was about to two shot Kaido, that's the lethality top tier swordsmen have. Ray has grown weaker with age and lost stamina, but he still has the highest levels of armament and top tier swordsmanship.
Lee Ba Shou
Why do you say that it’s clear that Kuri has never fought top tiers before? Just because no one has ever dodged him as much as luffy doesn’t mean he hasn’t fought top tiers before lol. Big Mom and Kaido can’t dodge Kuri like luffy was.
Cinera
Ray should be able to essentially one shot Kata I think.
I agree that Kata pushing Ray to high diff is plausible, but nothing more. Even in his old age Garp didn't want the marines to face him and WB at the same time. Borsalino admitted that they would need special preparations to capture him.
I agree that Kata pushing Ray to high diff is plausible, but nothing more. Even in his old age Garp didn't want the marines to face him and WB at the same time. Borsalino admitted that they would need special preparations to capture him.
Cinera
@Admiral Lee Hung, not the dodging part, the "his back has never touched the floor" and invicibility myths. Had he faced top tiers, those would have been disspelled.
Cinera
@TheAncientCenturion the matchup is clearly debatable, you should probably create the thread so we don't spam ZenZu's page too much.
Lee Ba Shou
@Cinera im not so sure any top tier without FS can actually beat him lol. What does Big Mom even do to him? He can dodge everything she has indefinitely, and all of the “weak spot attacking” he does is going to excel against her as she literally has 0 evasive ability.
Gol D. Roger
@Admiral Lee Hung Can you name a few people who Luffy can KO with COC but can't do the same with a punch?
Lee Ba Shou
Shanks can probably KO Jozu if he gets fully motivated, but Shanks arguably can’t break Jozu’s diamond defense
Cinera
@Admiral Lee Hung Kaido oneshotting a Luffy who beat Kata makes me assume the top tiers beat him easily.
The logia admirals can just overwhelm his FS with AOE. Future Sight wouldn't save him from Kuzan freezing the entire arena.
The logia admirals can just overwhelm his FS with AOE. Future Sight wouldn't save him from Kuzan freezing the entire arena.
Cinera
@Admiral Lee Hung I think that's overrating COC TBH. I guess advanced COC has applications beyond fodder cleaning, but even the preskip supernova withstood Rayleigh's COC.
Lee Ba Shou
Kaido one shot a version of luffy Who can’t evade even 1/100th as well as Kuri can. Bound Man is an attack power form, not a durability or evasion form. Kuri evades everything Kaido has, for sure. Until Kaido demonstrates high level CoO, which I doubt he will.
The Logia admirals can deal with Kuri but that doesn’t mean literally every top tier can imo.
The Logia admirals can deal with Kuri but that doesn’t mean literally every top tier can imo.
Gol D. Roger
Lmao, that's probably impossible. Nonetheless, the effectiveness of COC depends the difference in strength as far as it concerns knocking out people. You get KO'ed only when the difference in power is overwhelming so the elephant was KO'ed because Rayleigh was overwhelmingly stronger. There is noway he couldn't KO's something that weak with advanced Haki.