Worstgen
Cinera
@Admiral Lee Hung how do you think Base Kaido vs Luffy would have gone if Luffy was calm? Luffy would still have failed to deal any damage. However, he may not even get to land attacks this time, because Kaido would be sober and on guard. Kaido demonstrated the ability to blitz Boundman, so he still lands the hit and he still gets oneshot.
Cinera
The following would not change if Luffy was on guard:
* Kaido can blitz him.
* Kaido can oneshot him.
* He can't do more than 0 damage to Kaido.
* Kaido can blitz him.
* Kaido can oneshot him.
* He can't do more than 0 damage to Kaido.
Cinera
When you consider that this is a Kaido that was not using his devil fruits (Lucci stated that Zoan devil fruits are the best for close quarters combat), so hybrid Kaido, would have even more physical strength, even greater durability, even higher attack power (and perhaps retain his fire breath), arguing it is anything beyond a low diff is a tough pill to swallow.
Cinera
A DFless Kaido should also be inferior to the likes of the logia trio and other top tiers.
Elder Lee Hung
The main difference would be that Kaido would not be able to land a hit on luffy. Kaido is not fast at all, he is on par with Big Mom speed wise, and she is quite slow. Luffy could probably dodge his attacks indefinitely with future sight.
Cinera
> Kaido is not fast at all, he is on par with Big Mom speed wise, and she is quite slow.
Nope. Kaido canonically blitzed Boundman. Trying to downplay him because he clashed evenly with Meme is crap.
Nope. Kaido canonically blitzed Boundman. Trying to downplay him because he clashed evenly with Meme is crap.
Cinera
Borsalino vs Big Mom would probably last longer than 12 hours, is Borsalino also on par with Big Mom speedwise because of that? Feats in OP are inconsistent, _especially_ among top tiers. No current top tier is going to blitz and stomp Meme, so by your logic they are all on par with her.
Cinera
Besides, direct comparisons trump indirect comparisons. We have a direct comparison of Kaido vs Boundman, and Kaido blitzed Boundman. Any other comparisons are frankly irrelevant.
Cinera
Luffy's future sight is way too inconsistent to assume it would be a great help (let alone allow him continuously evade) in a fight with Kaido. Fodder characters (Batman, Gazelleman) have gotten the jump on Luffy despite his future sight.
Cinera
Future sight has yet to be relevant against high tier and above characters bar the fight with O-lin (who had no haki or combat skills to speak of) and Katakuri (where it first appeared). Future Sight wasn't a factor in the fight with Hawkins. It didn't help Luffy react to Batman's arrows, or react early to Zoro's attacks.
Cinera
Future Sight should first show itself useful against Hawkins level characters before I grant it relevance against Kaido. Luffy is not Katakuri, I think that has been made clear.
silverfire
@Cinera can you make a thread please, this is incredibly hard to follow.
Jiihad
Like he beamed up there, shot a barrage of beams at WB. Got em blocked, had a whole speech bout how scary tha WBP are, started shooting again. Blocked a strike from Marco, they had a struggle and had another convo with narco in that struggle. Then got overpowered
Elder Lee Hung
@Cinera It wasn’t a blitz. Kaido just got a surprise hit in is all. That’s not what a blitz is lol.
Cinera
@silverfire I will start working on it.
Xione
@silverfire that just depends on where you hold Vista.
Only real way to judge Vista's prowess is the duel against Mihawk. The Sakazuki scene is fairly pointless to me. And it def. is nothing like Kaido-Luffy situation. Esp, when the old geezers running the world recognize Marco as a strong power in the world.
Only real way to judge Vista's prowess is the duel against Mihawk. The Sakazuki scene is fairly pointless to me. And it def. is nothing like Kaido-Luffy situation. Esp, when the old geezers running the world recognize Marco as a strong power in the world.
Xione
@Cinera considering the Mihawk vs Vista was Oda using it to hype up Vista. With Dracule even acknowledging Vista as somebody formidable, where as the likes of Kaido treated Luffy like a joke. And even Fujitora didn't think all that high of Luffy even after seeing him maul Doflamingo. It would be highly illogical for anybody to use that scene to downplay Dracule.