Okay, let's think about it this way, the numbers were there with Kaido since 20 years ago, at that time, Kaido probably didn't had this complex ranking system since the crew was smaller. But with the addition of the headliners, the original members (numbers and calamities) were promoted to All-Stars; and don't forget that the numbers in card games are directly below the face cards. So I think that at the very least the F6 and numbers are equal in strength and match BM's older children.
If we want to compare their strengths;
BM:
-Sweet commanders
-Perospero and Snack
-Compote
-Daifuku and Oven
-Amande, Mont d' or, Tamago, Streusen, Galette and Opera
-Other children like Raisin, Yuen, Opera's siblings, the decuplets, Cracker's twin sister, Bavarios etc....
All of those are considered to be Yonko commanders btw, some of them are stronger than the others
Now for Kaido's commanders:
-Calamities
-Numbers and F6(they're at the same lvl but command wise the numbers are higher)
-Headliners
If we want to compare their strengths;
BM:
-Sweet commanders
-Perospero and Snack
-Compote
-Daifuku and Oven
-Amande, Mont d' or, Tamago, Streusen, Galette and Opera
-Other children like Raisin, Yuen, Opera's siblings, the decuplets, Cracker's twin sister, Bavarios etc....
All of those are considered to be Yonko commanders btw, some of them are stronger than the others
Now for Kaido's commanders:
-Calamities
-Numbers and F6(they're at the same lvl but command wise the numbers are higher)
-Headliners
Taking Oden's flashback into consideration, I think Kaidou's original crew hierarchy looked something like this 20 years ago:
Hierarchy 20 years ago
Kaidou - Captain
Kaidou's son (Daus/Deuce) - Special Commander
Calamities (KIng, Queen, Jack) - Commanders
Numbers - Veterans
Scrubs
We didn't see the Tobi Roppo in Oden's flashback so I don't think they existed 20 years ago. Also the fact that Kaidou wants to introduce them to Lilin makes me think that they are completely new entity introduced into the beast pirates. Plus the "numbers" fit the deck of cards theme like the Calamities, so I think they are part of Kaidou's original crew. Still remains to be seen whether Daus/Deuce will be stronger than the calamities (i.e. I prefer the name Daus/Deuce as opposed to Ace given the overlap with Hiken no "Ace") but it makes sense that he's he highest authority after Kaidou given he's Kaidou' son. I can't really imagine the Calamities ignoring his orders even if he's weaker than them - Getting WB/Ace vibes from him.
Current Hierarchy
Kaidou
Kaidou's son (Daus/Deuce) - Special Commander
Calamities (King, Queen, Jack) a.k.a All Stars - Commanders
Numbers/Tobi Roppo a.k.a Strongest Six Headliners - Veterans
Regular Headliners
Gifters
Pleasures
One problem in this community is that we try to mirror the dynamics of one Yonkou crew onto another but I think it's become very apparent that we can't keep doing that. Even if we exclude the Numbers and supernova like Apoo and Hawkins, Kaidou has more veteran level fighters than Lilin does which makes sense coz as opposed to all of the other Yonkou Kaidou is actively seeking out strong fighters to build the army to start a war.
Also back to the Numbers and the Tobi Roppo, if I were to use military analogy to describe them, I'd say the Numbers will be Kaidou's heavy infantry unit, where as the Tobbi Roppo would be something akin to Kaidou's Calvary unit. As such I think the Numbers will have a much higher strength threshold than the Tobi Roppo, where as the Tobi Roppo will have better balance on overall stats but will fall short to the Numbers in terms of raw strength.
Hierarchy 20 years ago
Kaidou - Captain
Kaidou's son (Daus/Deuce) - Special Commander
Calamities (KIng, Queen, Jack) - Commanders
Numbers - Veterans
Scrubs
We didn't see the Tobi Roppo in Oden's flashback so I don't think they existed 20 years ago. Also the fact that Kaidou wants to introduce them to Lilin makes me think that they are completely new entity introduced into the beast pirates. Plus the "numbers" fit the deck of cards theme like the Calamities, so I think they are part of Kaidou's original crew. Still remains to be seen whether Daus/Deuce will be stronger than the calamities (i.e. I prefer the name Daus/Deuce as opposed to Ace given the overlap with Hiken no "Ace") but it makes sense that he's he highest authority after Kaidou given he's Kaidou' son. I can't really imagine the Calamities ignoring his orders even if he's weaker than them - Getting WB/Ace vibes from him.
Current Hierarchy
Kaidou
Kaidou's son (Daus/Deuce) - Special Commander
Calamities (King, Queen, Jack) a.k.a All Stars - Commanders
Numbers/Tobi Roppo a.k.a Strongest Six Headliners - Veterans
Regular Headliners
Gifters
Pleasures
One problem in this community is that we try to mirror the dynamics of one Yonkou crew onto another but I think it's become very apparent that we can't keep doing that. Even if we exclude the Numbers and supernova like Apoo and Hawkins, Kaidou has more veteran level fighters than Lilin does which makes sense coz as opposed to all of the other Yonkou Kaidou is actively seeking out strong fighters to build the army to start a war.
Also back to the Numbers and the Tobi Roppo, if I were to use military analogy to describe them, I'd say the Numbers will be Kaidou's heavy infantry unit, where as the Tobbi Roppo would be something akin to Kaidou's Calvary unit. As such I think the Numbers will have a much higher strength threshold than the Tobi Roppo, where as the Tobi Roppo will have better balance on overall stats but will fall short to the Numbers in terms of raw strength.
Exactly, the structure of various pirate crews vary but I think that in general most named characters in a crew are considered to be officers/commanders/executives, and it depends on the crew's unique structure weather those commanders are all equal or if there're hierarchies between the commanders themselves. For example in the BM pirates, every child and every ranked combatant is a commander with only the sweet commanders being above the rest, in the beast pirates there seems to be step-like hierarchy between them(headliners, F6, All-Stars). The same could be said about the straw hats, were every Strawhat is an executive and the captains of the fleet are also considered to be ones so Luffy has 16 commanders, WB has his 16 commanders plus the captains of the 43 crews under him meaning he has about 60 commanders
You're spot on, but you've lost me on Apoo.
Drake and Hawkins alone did not join the Beasts Pirates; they joined with their crew and were placed with the Headliners. Apoo is likely a Headliner, but he also joined with a crew, and one was with him in the Numbers' introduction. All of this point to the Headliners being subordinate captains, which includes Babanuki, Holdem, Page One, etc. It parallels Big Mom's process of tying other pirate crews and organizations into her own through marriage; Bege, Pekoms, and Jimbei also joined with their crew. Drake and Page One could be the "ten" and the "ace," but there are SIX Tobi Roppo, and it goes against the idea of Headliners being an avenue for pirate captains.
I wouldn't discount the Numbers as unimportant. Oda kept them in silhouettes even in the Oden flashback. Their title "Numbers" fit in with them representing the Number cards.
Drake and Hawkins alone did not join the Beasts Pirates; they joined with their crew and were placed with the Headliners. Apoo is likely a Headliner, but he also joined with a crew, and one was with him in the Numbers' introduction. All of this point to the Headliners being subordinate captains, which includes Babanuki, Holdem, Page One, etc. It parallels Big Mom's process of tying other pirate crews and organizations into her own through marriage; Bege, Pekoms, and Jimbei also joined with their crew. Drake and Page One could be the "ten" and the "ace," but there are SIX Tobi Roppo, and it goes against the idea of Headliners being an avenue for pirate captains.
I wouldn't discount the Numbers as unimportant. Oda kept them in silhouettes even in the Oden flashback. Their title "Numbers" fit in with them representing the Number cards.
How does Drake represents number 10, even though he wasn't there with Kaido 20 years ago? So Kaido waited 10 years for Drake to appear out of nowhere? Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it? Plus there's already a rank called "the numbers", which points towards their members being the representatives of the number cards from 2-10, YES TEN, and you can't make an argument that Drake is a number, no you won't, he's either a number or a F6 and he's confirmed as being part of the F6 so that means someone else within Kaido's crew actually represents the number 10, and I think that the numbers are actually All-Stars, the same rank as King, Queen and Jack. The flying 6 are the top headliners which are below the All-Stars, but I think that in terms of combat strength, the F6 are comparable with the numbers with Drake possibly being stronger than all the numbers
These are Whitebeard's and Blackbeard's hierarchy.
Now here are the probable hierarchies for the other Emperors.
Whitebeard Pirates
Captain (Whitebeard)
Executives (Marco, Ace, Jozu, Thatch, Vista, Blamenco, Rakuyo, Namur, Blenheim, Curiel, Kingdew, Haruta, Atmos, Speed Jiru, Fossa, Izo)
Fodder (Division Commander Subordinates)
Pirate Captain Subordinates (Subordinate Captains)
Blackbeard Pirates
Captain (Blackbeard)
Executives (Jesus Burgess, Shiryu, Van Auger, Avalo Pizzaro, Lafitte, Caterina Devon, Sanjan Wolf, Vasco Shot, Doc Q)
Fodder (Other Subordinates)
Pirate Captain Subordinates (Subordinate Captains)
Captain (Whitebeard)
Executives (Marco, Ace, Jozu, Thatch, Vista, Blamenco, Rakuyo, Namur, Blenheim, Curiel, Kingdew, Haruta, Atmos, Speed Jiru, Fossa, Izo)
Fodder (Division Commander Subordinates)
Pirate Captain Subordinates (Subordinate Captains)
Blackbeard Pirates
Captain (Blackbeard)
Executives (Jesus Burgess, Shiryu, Van Auger, Avalo Pizzaro, Lafitte, Caterina Devon, Sanjan Wolf, Vasco Shot, Doc Q)
Fodder (Other Subordinates)
Pirate Captain Subordinates (Subordinate Captains)
Now here are the probable hierarchies for the other Emperors.
Red-Hair Pirates
Captain (Shanks)
Executives (Ben Beckman, Lucky Roux, Yasopp, Them Unnamed 6 Guys)
Fodder (Other Subordinates)
Pirate Captain Subordinates (???)
Beasts Pirates
Captain (Kaido)
Executives (King, Queen, Jack, "Ten," "Nine," "Eight," "Seven," "Six," "Five," "Four," "Three," "Two," "One")
Fodder (Gifters, Waiters, Pleasures)
Pirate Captain Subordinates (Headliners)
(Kaido Jr. may be the "Ace.)
Big Mom Pirates
Captain (Big Mom) & "Assistant" (Streusen)
Executives (Katakuri, Cracker, Smoothie, Perospero, Compote, Daifuku, Oven) (+Other Ministers, +Other Charlottes)
Fodder (Homies)
Pirate Captain Subordinates (Fighters, ???)
Captain (Shanks)
Executives (Ben Beckman, Lucky Roux, Yasopp, Them Unnamed 6 Guys)
Fodder (Other Subordinates)
Pirate Captain Subordinates (???)
Beasts Pirates
Captain (Kaido)
Executives (King, Queen, Jack, "Ten," "Nine," "Eight," "Seven," "Six," "Five," "Four," "Three," "Two," "One")
Fodder (Gifters, Waiters, Pleasures)
Pirate Captain Subordinates (Headliners)
(Kaido Jr. may be the "Ace.)
Big Mom Pirates
Captain (Big Mom) & "Assistant" (Streusen)
Executives (Katakuri, Cracker, Smoothie, Perospero, Compote, Daifuku, Oven) (+Other Ministers, +Other Charlottes)
Fodder (Homies)
Pirate Captain Subordinates (Fighters, ???)
J
I said it...
Numbers around the main crew while Fly3rs are captains sailing under Kaido
Numbers have Card names while Flyers have card-game names
Numbers are Vets since they've been in NW with Kaido for 2 decades while Flyers look like Supernovas who entered NW between 6-1 year ago
This post from Monkey D. Luffy cements it
Numbers around the main crew while Fly3rs are captains sailing under Kaido
Numbers have Card names while Flyers have card-game names
Numbers are Vets since they've been in NW with Kaido for 2 decades while Flyers look like Supernovas who entered NW between 6-1 year ago
Going back to what @Garp the Fist pointed out with the Numbers' laughs being based on the JPN numbers, one seemed to have a "ten" (ju) laugh.
"Five": "Go ki ki ki!"
"Eight": "Ha cha cha cha!"
"Nine": "Kun yun yun yun!"
"Ten": "Ju ki ki ki!"
"Five": "Go ki ki ki!"
"Eight": "Ha cha cha cha!"
"Nine": "Kun yun yun yun!"
"Ten": "Ju ki ki ki!"