Powers & Abilities Advanced conquerors should have been left for Shank

Monkey D Theories

Monkey D Theories

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#1
#1
I've realized something. The addition of advanced conquerors into wano was utterly unnecessary and effectively ruined the yonko fights by making the yonko too powerful, and thereby requiring asspulls and plot convenience for them to be defeated.

In Luffy vs Kaido, Luffy needed to be defeated 3 times and get power ups after each defeat in order to finally be able to fight on par with kaido. In Kid/Law vs big mom, ACoC was utterly ignored with Oda maybe having her use it in 1040, hinting that she used it off-screen, but never actually showing her fight with it.

In both of these cases, ACoC is the problem. If ACoC wasn't needed to beat kaido, then Luffy would have only been defeated once. Wouldn't that have been far more impactful? imo, Luffy's defeats in 1010 and 1013 cheapen his defeat in 1042, by that point the defeat didn't even feel real. Because of what happened in 1010 and 1013, we knew that he would just come back with a new power up, just like he did the past 2 times. Furthermore, Linlin not using ACoC offensively in the manga despite her sacrificing lifespan and having her bones broken is utter shit tier writing. Its also shit tier writing that we had an entire arc with big mom where ACoC was never used(bar maybe the thing with the kx launchers).

Overall, ACoC just seems shoehorned into wano kuni. I mean really ask yourselves, how does ACoC actually work? CoA is an invisible aura, CoC is conquering another person's will, so how do you coat something with CoC and what does CoC coating do? I feel like this is an important question that shouldn't just be left for fans to speculate on, ACoC should have been fully explained before the 2 most important characters in OP(Luffy and Zoro) got it. It also should have gotten more development time than it did.

For Luffy to get FS, it took a drawn out fight with kata that lasted for hours. Luffy got brutally injured and we even saw flashbacks of Luffy's timeskip training, before Luffy had some semblance of control over FS. For Luffy to get ACoA, it was largely off-screened, but we saw him training for it. For ACoC it seems so utterly cheap that its this power you just get by mastering CoA. Really, if this is all it took, why didn't Rayleigh just teach Luffy ryuo? Wouldn't that have saved a lot more time? Especially since it only took him 2 weeks to learn it.

CoC is the most important color of haki, and yet it got forcibly inserted into an arc that really didn't need it. imo, it should have been left for shanks. CoC was always something Oda hyped up for shanks, so this should have been shanks's unique power, something Luffy learned from shanks. I think it would have been way better than throwing it into wano and needlessly making the yonko fights more complicated than they really needed to be.
 
A

ARMeni

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#4
#4
I agree. It takes from the training Hyogoro provided and CoA progression in general and ultimately boils down to a power we should have seen before but didn't because shitty reasons.

What bothers me most is that at some point I came to terms with the possibility of Luffy's bounty surpassing Kaido so Oda can rush the end of the series and have Luffy be recognized as the top threat for the foreeseable future. So 3 powerups in a row do seem to fit that plan, since you're cutting short these Haki developments in just 1 arc when Future Sight needed a whole ass final arc fight.

But then Oda decides that this will be like Dressrosa in terms of recognition so... what's the point? If Luffy still needs to surpass Shanks and Teach, why give him so much stuff just for Kaido? The answer is simple:

BECAUSE OF THE STUPID "NOBODY BEATS KAIDO 1 ON 1"

Oda had to wank Kaido so much but didn't have the balls to fully commit to a scenario where multiple rounds of characters tire him out. No, he had to have Luffy state multiple times that he will best him alone, that Law can get Zoro to the Live Floor because he's got this and even have Yamato clearly know that Luffy wants to have Kaido all to himself.

Why do that if in the end you are going to still have Law and Kid on his level? What the actual fuck? Then why not make Kaido actually live to his reputation instead of destroying the 9 Scabbards so easily and then proceeding to not have any meaningful definite defeats in all of Onigashima. HAVE HIM FACE MULTIPLE ROUNDS OF MULTIPLE HIGH LEVEL OPPONENTS AND LET THEM DO MEANINGFUL STUFF INSTEAD OF DOING THE LUFFY SHOW FOR 70% OF HIS FIGHT.

And all of this is without even starting to have the discussion of NEVER STATING ANYTHING ABOUT HIS AWAKENING.

Just plain stupid and makes me fear how many asspulls Oda will have to pull Luffy through when he faces Shanks, BB, Akainu and Imu. He just recently stated that Gear 5 was his peak but Oda will destroy that statement in its next big showing just to hype up one of the previously mentioned.

To go even further, I think Awakening, specially seeing what it's supposed to represent for Luffy (Sun God shit) should have been left for Blackbeard. Unless suddenly Oda decides that BB won't show explicit Awakening for any of his 2 (3?) fruits just like Kaido and BM. :josad:
 
H

Herrera95

#5
#5
sanjikun said:
Trick question: There is no "advanced" Conquerors. It's just CoC coating, which any CoC user that can do Ryou can do.
Click to expand...
Explain Yamato using it...

Ryou? Luffy never used Ryou. He used internal damage. Maybe Yamato has Ryou but not internal damage.

@topic

Actually this just reforces the idea why Yonko fight was still too early. He should have met Shanks first and learned that trick.
 
Sentry22

Sentry22

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#6
#6
We don't know for a fact that this is the advanced application of CoC. It's just something we assumed because it was being used in a different way.

Shanks could still potentially teach the advanced version given that his fighting style seems to be centered around Conqueror's haki. At least that was the impression I got from watching all those One Piece games. :specialmeh:
 
zenox

zenox

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#7
#7
i think its needed tbh conquerors haki has been hinted to be very devasting and a big deal since it was introduced , wano is the arc where luffy will become a toptier going out of it and surpassing kaido and bigmom narratively . even after luffy got ryuo and fs he was still missing something to become a toptier and yes that was acoc , it also explains how many people with just haki alone can become toptiers , it also supports the point of haki being the pinnacle of strength in op , oda even made kaido a basically impenetrable force which cannot be stopped who kept stomping luffy no matter what , so he introduced one of the strongest ability of op if not the strongest being the key to defeat kaido . but yes acoc is a rushed powerup imo , the no - touching thing only came on oda's mind during the roger flashback where oda shows two of the strongest of their era using acoc as the main ability to fight , for using acoc u just dont need to have ryuo and coc u also need alot of strength to accomplish of using it .
 
Nagasaki

Nagasaki

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#8
#8
Try to imagine that there is a narrator box or several character dialogues in the manga explaining how X thing works. But wait, that doesn't exist in One Piece, and Oda's writing on everything related to abilities/powers and PL is the worst in shounen manga.

Only 2% of the abilities and powers in this shit manga are explained, and when they are explained, it's just a very short sentence.
 
ShadowStyle369

ShadowStyle369

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#14
#14
Herrera95 said:
Explain Yamato using it...

Ryou? Luffy never used Ryou. He used internal damage. Maybe Yamato has Ryou but not internal damage.

@topic

Actually this just reforces the idea why Yonko fight was still too early. He should have met Shanks first and learned that trick.
Click to expand...
Maybe I interpreted it wrong but ryou is all that’s needed to flow haki (chap 947) this is enough to flow coc haki as well I say this because Yamato does not have internal destruction as she could not remove her collars… maybe zoros has internal but even if he doesn’t which I don’t really see why he would unless it’s integral to cutting everything all zoro needs is the barrier which was demonstrated in fish man island by him vs the octopus dude,to me luffy can not use internal destruction without using ryou because he is flowing his haki into a object or person the first stage ryou is crucial
 
H

Herrera95

#18
#18
ShadowStyle369 said:
Maybe I interpreted it wrong but ryou is all that’s needed to flow haki (chap 947) this is enough to flow coc haki as well I say this because Yamato does not have internal destruction as she could not remove her collars… maybe zoros has internal but even if he doesn’t which I don’t really see why he would unless it’s integral to cutting everything all zoro needs is the barrier which was demonstrated in fish man island by him vs the octopus dude,to me luffy can not use internal destruction without using ryou because he is flowing his haki into a object or person the first stage ryou is crucial
Click to expand...
No one is flowing CoC. They are coating. Which fits basic armament that Luffy learned with Rayleigh.
Yes Zoro has Ryou and Yamato possibly too. Zoro learned Ryou to defeat Mr 1. But Ryou is not the same as internal destruction since Hyogoro stated himself he couldn't do and couldn't break his own collars just like Yamato. Sanji too with his collars in WCI.

Is very important to people understand that Ryou is not internal damage and we don't need to know internal damage to use CoC coating. Yamato is the perfect example of that.

Not saying Luffy doesn't have Ryou but he never used.
 
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