Character Discussion Author's death, are Sengoku and Mihawk fans really happy with the Manga?

[ImmaIvanoM]

I actually wanted to portray X like this

That’s it exactly. Oda WANTS readers to not know

you’re assuming that Oda doesn’t want people to constant be debating this until the end of the manga. Maybe he even wants it to be debated after the manga ends and he’ll never give an answer

Oda doesn’t want to answer anything about his story hence why we still don’t even know the full extent of what haki does, even now, in the final saga where every top tier has been in a fight already yet the primary power system they are using is still unclear

Oda realized that there is no real discussion about the themes and substance of his manga since it’s not that complicated. So he makes sure that agenda discussions are the primary engagement with his story

 

[HA001]

It wouldn’t make sense narratively for Mihawk to be stronger than Shanks. Simple as that. Even portrayal wise Shanks is on another level.

Blame oda for making shanks a swordsman and mihawks rival

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

The authors intention >>>> reader interpretation

What if the author’s intentions are ambiguity and for the readers to not understand his story?

It wouldn’t make sense narratively for Mihawk to be stronger than Shanks. Simple as that. Even portrayal wise Shanks is on another level.

except the narrative that Mihawk has to be the strongest swordsman in the world, right?

 

[Sir Yasheen]

What if the author’s intentions are ambiguity and for the readers to not understand his story?

except the narrative that Mihawk has to be the strongest swordsman in the world, right?

It’s not. Typically it’s readers forcing ambiguity for the sake of their interpretation.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Sengoku has CoC and a mythical zoan, was acknowledged by Roger, and was a fleet admiral(5 billion berry bounty).

idk where he is lacking

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Sengoku has CoC and a mythical zoan, was acknowledged by Roger, and was a fleet admiral(5 billion berry bounty).

idk where he is lacking

Presence

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

It’s not. Typically it’s readers forcing ambiguity for the sake of their interpretation.

What about haki? Are you saying Oda is being 100% clear with his presentation of how haki works?

 

[Rumble]

Stans of these characters only like them for battledome fodder.

 

[mly90]

If the Manga makes Mihawk say he will go out at marineford with pre ts luffy is it really our fault?

Perhaps you would at least have something worthy of bait if we didn't get this aspect of mihawk character so early in the series lol
Did same exact thing with zoro in baratie but of course we exclude it as it works against our agenda

 

[SakazOuki]

Bumgoku has fans?

 

[The Legend]

The weak clown copers on this site proceed to write walls of text just to wank Vista's rival Lmao

Vista's rival> Shanks my ass ...
Vista's rival has shat his pants three times on screen just at the thought of facing Shanks.

 

[ArturCantSpeakJapanese]

What about haki? Are you saying Oda is being 100% clear with his presentation of how haki works?

he's being a lot clearer than people act like he is, although i wish he'd just explain more of it already. just do it in SBS or something to clarify a few things.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

What about haki? Are you saying Oda is being 100% clear with his presentation of how haki works?

Again that’s the fandom overthinking it. If a character is using CoC or has CoC oda makes it clear. The issue comes from people wanting characters to have shown CoC so they overcomplicate every little thing into it being proof of CoC.

 

[Salah WG]

We are talking about a Manga where Oda created so many Non-Sword Fighting-Styles that are made possible thanks to DFs, Science, Firearms, Martial Arts, Race Abilities, Non-Bladed Weapons ... etc

Yet He chose to give a Sword to Shanks, let's say He wanted to start a Story with a Swordsman,
Why then give Rayleigh & Luffy's Mentor a Sword too?
Why then give Pirate King a Sword too? When He could have given him Garp's Fighting Style instead,
Why make Oden comparable to them?
Why give a Sword to Xebec? Harald? Garling?
He even Created a Shanks Twin & again gave him a Sword!
Why give WB a Meito? Why give Big Mom a Sword? Shiki? Nusjuro?
Why give Ryuma a Black Blade? ... etc

Does this sound like an Author who doesn't want Readers to Upscale Mihawk?
And even if We pretend like Mihawk doesn't Exist or wasn't Introduced yet, who else Fights like Shanks? (Non-DF & CoC-Fueled Fighting Style)

We have Harald, Xebec, Garp, Roger, Rayleigh, Gaban, Oden (These are Confirmed so far)
All of these are Re-Skins of Shanks, and They are either Dead or Old/Half-Retired,
So, in this Category of Peak Fighting Style (According to Kaidou), only Shanks is Left to represent them (Maybe Beckman too alongside him)

Who did Oda chose among New Gen to Rival Shanks in such Throne? Who is Successor of these Guys?
Luffy? Loki? Blackbeard? Yamato? Law? Kid? Nope, They are all DF Users!

Only Zoro is a Candidate to Replace Shanks in said Category, why would Author lead his +1100 Chapters Manga into this?
If He doesn't want you to think that Mihawk is Stronger than all those Guys, then why make Zoro the only one who falls into that Category of Fighters?

Seriously, read this List multiple times, these are Confirmed Non-DF Adv. CoC Users so far:

Ryuma (Most Definitely)
Harald
Xebec
Garp
Roger
Rayleigh
Gaban
Oden
Shanks
Zoro

Look at who are these Guys,
Look how many of them are Swordsmen,
Look how many of them are Dead or Retired/Old, who are only ones Left? Only Shanks & Zoro,

So even without Mihawk & WSS Title, it was always clear that Zoro took a Path where He must Surpass these Guys (And by Extension their Rivals too), it's just that Oda summarized this whole Journey into One Title & One Opponent to Beat, and He made him only related to Shanks, because that's who the Current Representative of this category of Fighters is,

In other words ---> Surpassing all these Legends who fall under same Category as Zoro = Surpassing Shanks = Being ready to Face Mihawk.
This whole Equation was made clear since East Blue Saga, but People apparently prefer if Manga was written by them.

 

[Wh1p]

We are talking about a Manga where Oda created so many Non-Sword Fighting-Styles that are made possible thanks to DFs, Science, Firearms, Martial Arts, Race Abilities, Non-Bladed Weapons ... etc

Yet He chose to give a Sword to Shanks, let's say He wanted to start a Story with a Swordsman,
Why then give Rayleigh & Luffy's Mentor a Sword too?
Why then give Pirate King a Sword too? When He could have given him Garp's Fighting Style instead,
Why make Oden comparable to them?
Why give a Sword to Xebec? Harald? Garling?
He even Created a Shanks Twin & again gave him a Sword!
Why give WB a Meito? Why give Big Mom a Sword? Shiki? Nusjuro?
Why give Ryuma a Black Blade? ... etc

Does this sound like an Author who doesn't want Readers to Upscale Mihawk?
And even if We pretend like Mihawk doesn't Exist or wasn't Introduced yet, who else Fights like Shanks? (Non-DF & CoC-Fueled Fighting Style)

We have Harald, Xebec, Garp, Roger, Rayleigh, Gaban, Oden (These are Confirmed so far)
All of these are Re-Skins of Shanks, and They are either Dead or Old/Half-Retired,
So, in this Category of Peak Fighting Style (According to Kaidou), only Shanks is Left to represent them (Maybe Beckman too alongside him)

Who did Oda chose among New Gen to Rival Shanks in such Throne? Who is Successor of these Guys?
Luffy? Loki? Blackbeard? Yamato? Law? Kid? Nope, They are all DF Users!

Only Zoro is a Candidate to Replace Shanks in said Category, why would Author lead his +1100 Chapters Manga into this?
If He doesn't want you to think that Mihawk is Stronger than all those Guys, then why make Zoro the only one who falls into that Category of Fighters?

Seriously, read this List multiple times, these are Confirmed Non-DF Adv. CoC Users so far:

Ryuma (Most Definitely)
Harald
Xebec
Garp
Roger
Rayleigh
Gaban
Oden
Shanks
Zoro

Look at who are these Guys,
Look how many of them are Swordsmen,
Look how many of them are Dead or Retired/Old, who are only ones Left? Only Shanks & Zoro,

So even without Mihawk & WSS Title, it was always clear that Zoro took a Path where He must Surpass these Guys (And by Extension their Rivals too), it's just that Oda summarized this whole Journey into One Title & One Opponent to Beat, and He made him only related to Shanks, because that's who the Current Representative of this category of Fighters is,

In other words ---> Surpassing all these Legends who fall under same Category as Zoro = Surpassing Shanks = Being ready to Face Mihawk.
This whole Equation was made clear since East Blue Saga, but People apparently prefer if Manga was written by them.

I don't think Shanks is equal to Roger because Mihawk made it clear that losing a limb made him weaker. But for the most part this makes sense.

I would personally say

WSS > Roger and his counterparts > one armed Roger counterpart

 

[grey matter]

I don't think Shanks is equal to Roger because Mihawk made it clear that losing a limb made him weaker. But for the most part this makes sense.

I would personally say

WSS > Roger and his counterparts > one armed Roger counterpart

It can make sense in theory. Issue is Mihawk doesn't ooze the energy or portrayal of someone above Roger. Zero showings so far against a strong opponent.

Ryuma on the other hand is someone that would believably fill that role. Anytime the dude's name is brought up, it's characters wanking him. Solo defence against WG giving them PTSD lasting centuries, getting revered as a God, narrative outright saying Ryuma can defeat Kaido getting mentioned alongside "Joyboy" etc.

 

[Salah WG]

I don't think Shanks is equal to Roger because Mihawk made it clear that losing a limb made him weaker. But for the most part this makes sense.

I would personally say

WSS > Roger and his counterparts > one armed Roger counterpart

I don't think losing an Arm made Shanks Weaker, because it made him lose some Strength, but does Strength make the difference when it comes to how these Characters Fight?

He is turning his Willpower into a Force thanks to Adv. CoC & unleashing it upon you, would it become more Powerful if He also had his Second Arm? Not really, because He isn't Attacking you with Strength,

For Example, would Enel's Attacks become Inferior in any way if He lost an Arm? Not at all, because his Attacks are Fueled by Lightning, not his Body Strength, his entire Playing Deck remains Intact,

What changes though is that Shanks now have a Disability that can be Exploited under certain situations, but it's not fair to scale a fish based on it's tree climbing skills, Shanks won't be in such Situations because what's standing between you & a Critical Hit on his Body is his CoC,

If you're able to bypass Shanks CoC, then it doesn't matter if He has One Arm or Two, and if you're able to work your way around his CoC & land a Hit that He fails to see coming or react to in time, then it also doesn't matter how many Arms He has,

Shanks didn't drop to an Inferior Level upon losing an Arm, Fighting him still comes down to whether you can Defend against his CoC and if you can Bypass it, it wasn't his Arm that decided the difference between a Victory & a Defeat

 

[MonochromeYoru]

I would personally say

WSS > Roger and his counterparts > one armed Roger counterpart

except this has no evidence or canon credence whatsoever.
The reason mihawk fans can claim mihawk > shank is because they are alive and in their prime at the same time.
That is not the case for roger or any of the older legends. So mohawk's wss title does not affect them whatsoever.
It's world's strongest swordsman. Not World's strongest swordsman of all time.

Mohawk's reaction to old wb in marineford also furthers this.
But then that makes the mohawk>shank matter worse. Cause shank was implied to be above old wb.

I agree with @ImmaIvanoM

Oda is purposely making it all vague and messy. So he can have his cake and eat it too. The fandom wars are one of the things that sustain one piece, even in japan. There is no reason for oda to mess that up by making powerscaling debates on mohawk vs shank, zoro vs sanji etc completely clear. He will always leave some crumbs for all sides to argue with.

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

Mihawk never said he would go all out on Luffy, that's a misconception.
He said he wouldn't restrain himself just because Luffy is good friends with Shanks. Different things.
He's just saying he will still attack Luffy, he's not trying to say he's using all the power he's got to take Luffy down.

 

[soupongo]

But then that makes the mohawk>shank matter worse. Cause shank was implied to be above old wb.

Oda is purposely making it all vague and messy. So he can have his cake and eat it too. The fandom wars are one of the things that sustain one piece, even in japan. There is no reason for oda to mess that up by making powerscaling debates on mohawk vs shank, zoro vs sanji etc completely clear. He will always leave some crumbs for all sides to argue with.

mostly true, but to what extent is it ¨Vague¨ if Shanks is Mihawk´s only known swordsman rival before he became known as the worlds strongest swordsman?