Versus Battle Bellatrix vs Snape

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
#5
Before even analysing the feats : my heart and guts say Snape stomps (no I have no bias ^^).

But in an actual battle I think Bella and Snape are close and I think this fight is the most discussed fight in HP.

Bella feats :

Duels : Bella has a lot of feats duelling people and often winning duels she is in.

Bella vs Kingsley : She beat him

There was a loud bang and a yell from behind the dais. Harry saw Kingsley, yelling in pain, hit the ground. Bellatrix Lestrange turned tail and ran as Dumbledore whipped around. He aimed a spell at her but she deflected it. She was halfway up the steps now —​

Bella vs Tonks : She beat her

They both ducked again. A jet of green light had narrowly missed Sirius; across the room Harry saw Tonks fall from halfway up the stone steps, her limp form toppling from stone seat to stone seat, and Bellatrix, triumphant, running back toward the fray.


Bella vs Hermione Ginny and Luna : She stalemated the 3 and without her original wand

Bellatrix was still fighting too, fifty yards away from Voldemort, and like her master she dueled three at once: Hermione, Ginny, and Luna, all battling their hardest, but Bellatrix was equal to them, and Harry’s attention was diverted as a Killing Curse shot so close to Ginny that she missed death by an inch —​


Bella vs 4 snatchers and Greyback

There was a bang and a flash of red light: Harry knew that the Snatcher had been Stunned. There was a roar of anger from his fellows: Scabior drew his wand. “What d’you think you’re playing at, woman?” “Stupefy!” she screamed. “Stupefy!” They were no match for her, even though there were four of them against one of her: She was a witch, as Harry knew, with prodigious skill and no conscience. They fell where they stood, all except Greyback, who had been forced into a kneeling position, his arms outstretched. Out of the corners of his eyes Harry saw Bellatrix bearing down upon the werewolf, the sword of Gryffindor gripped tightly in her hand, her face waxen.​

Bella vs Sirius : pushed toward the Veil

Only one couple were still battling, apparently unaware of the new arrival. Harry saw Sirius duck Bellatrix’s jet of red light: He was laughing at her. “Come on, you can do better than that!” he yelled, his voice echoing around the cavernous room. The second jet of light hit him squarely on the chest. The laughter had not quite died from his face, but his eyes widened in shock.


So yeah Bella is quite the deadly witch and she is really really strong. That Molly the cake maker managed to beat her is quite the bullshit.

And Bella has numerous feats. More feats than Snape.


Bella magic prowess :

The Dumbledore blocking spell feat :

There was a loud bang and a yell from behind the dais. Harry saw Kingsley, yelling in pain, hit the ground. Bellatrix Lestrange turned tail and ran as Dumbledore whipped around. He aimed a spell at her but she deflected it. She was halfway up the steps now —​

She was a very deadly witch and she was taught personally by Voldy himself. The most important and relevant Death eater in his army except the other player here.

She knows occlumency.

Bella portrayal :

She was always the closest to Voldy. The most loyal (with Barty JR).

Killed Sirius and Doby.

Among the Death eater she was quite respected. When someone met her they didn't brag.

She manhandled Greyback and the guy didn't retaliate. He must feared her (and she stomped him).

Bella was the only one who said aloud that she didn't believe Snape.


Snape feats :


Duels : here are Snape duelling feats


Snape vs McGo and after Flitwick and Sprout :

Professor McGonagall moved faster than Harry could have believed: Her wand slashed through the air and for a split second Harry thought that Snape must crumple, unconscious, but the swiftness of his Shield Charm was such that McGonagall was thrown off balance. She brandished her wand at a torch on the wall and it flew out of its bracket: Harry, about to curse Snape, was forced to pull Luna out of the way of the descending flames, which became a ring of fire that filled the corridor and flew like a lasso at Snape — Then it was no longer fire, but a great black serpent that McGonagall blasted to smoke, which re-formed and solidified in seconds to become a swarm of pursuing daggers: Snape avoided them only by forcing the suit of armor in front of him, and with echoing clangs the daggers sank, one after another, into its breast — “Minerva!” said a squeaky voice, and looking behind him, still shielding Luna from flying spells, Harry saw Professors Flitwick and Sprout sprinting up the corridor toward them in their night- clothes, with the enormous Professor Slughorn panting along at the rear. “No!” squealed Flitwick, raising his wand. “You’ll do no more murder at Hogwarts!” Flitwick’s spell hit the suit of armor behind which Snape had taken shelter: With a clatter it came to life. Snape struggled free of the crushing arms and sent it flying back toward his attackers: Harry and Luna had to dive sideways to avoid it as it smashed into the wall and shattered. When Harry looked up again, Snape was in full flight, McGonagall, Flitwick, and Sprout all thundering after him: He hurtled through a classroom door and, moments later, he heard McGonagall cry, “Coward! COWARD!”​



Snape vs Harry book 6 :

Sorry don't find the quote but Snape stomped Harry badly. Harry mental state was all over the place and Snape mastery was just too much.


Snape magic prowess :

Here Snape shines quite a lot. The guy is a genius at magic.

Snape was also taught personally by Voldy. He managed to learn how to fly without a broom. Nobody can do it except Voldy.

The best occlumens in the whole show.

Creating deadly and powerful spells when a teen. Feat that barely know one of his gen did. (maybe creating the marauders map is equal).

Said by Sirius to have known even at school more than anyone about Dark arts. Likely his knowledge has increased since. Became teacher in DADA. Even Harry who hated Snape was amazed by Snape knowledge.

Can perform light magic too. He is the only death eater that can make a Patronus.

So he is an expert of Dark Magic and also how to fight it. He managed to fight back Voldy curse on Dumby hands (a great feat) for exemple. He also saved Katie Bell, fighting the dark curse of the necklace. Snape also created counter curse to his own dark spells sectumsempra.

The god king of potions.

Don't remember where but I think Snape also did one or two times wandless magic.

So clearly Snape is a genius in a lot of magic fields. And ones that can help in a fight : expert in dark and light magic, curse and counter curse etc. Creating spells no one knows too can help. And the guy can fly.


Snape portrayal :

Snape has also some portrayal inside the Death Eater : he was the one appointed as Headmaster. Voldy loved Hogwarts a LOT, and he choose Snape as Headmaster. And except the Ministry Hogwarts is the most important place in Great Britain.

I know that Bella likely didn't want at all the job, but Voldy put Snape as headmaster and this means that he valued his skills and granted him great status.

There is also a good moment at the astronomy tower : Bella, Greyback, Alecto, Amycus and Yaxley were there before Dumby and when Snape arrived everyone (but Bella) stepped back.

Snape was the only one who talked back to Bella and mocked her.


Bella and Snape were the two Death Eater Harry hated the most.


Conclusion :

Minerva was likely the strongest duellist both fought but Bella had a lot more feats duelling wise and good ones. Snape has likely more knowledge about magic in general and fighting magic. And Snape portrayal is quite good, even if Bella's one too.

Snape wins this but they are really close.


Tags for thoses maybe interested :
@Zoro D Goat
@Chrono
@Buusatan94
@AL sama
@IceWitch
@Dragomir
@MasterD
 
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Warchief Sanji D Goat

Queen Gunko!➡️⬆️⬇️⬅️
#7
Snape high diff because he's much more intelligence, studious and tricky when it comes to magic abilities. Bellatrix is strong on her own especially with her dark magic power, but her repetitiveness on the same moves and lack of intelligence means that she would be defeated by Snape after giving him an initial advantage. And most importantly, Snape is mostly a defensive fighter so the moment Bellatrix drops her guard (which is very likely) then Snape would probably finish her off.
 
Z
#8
There is also a good moment at the astronomy tower : Bella, Greyback, Alecto, Amycus and Yaxley were there before Dumby and when Snape arrived everyone (but Bella) stepped back.
Bellatrix was never at Hogwarts during the 6th book. Just wanted to make that minor correction before posting my thoughts on this match up.


Hype/Portrayal

Snape isn't Voldemort's strongest subordinate, he's not even Voldemort's second strongest subordinate. Those titles go to Lucius and and Bellatrix. How do I know? Because Voldemort treated those two better than all his Death Eaters, at least before the fiasco at the Ministry in the 5th book and Snape killing Dumbledore in the 6th book. Afterwards Snape became Voldemort's right hand man and Lucius/Bella fell out of favour. However, I find it very interesting that for 95% of Death Eater timespan, Voldemort held Lucius/Bella above all Death Eaters.

There is a lot of contextual clues to support this. For starters, look at the relationship between Draco, Crabbe, and Goyle. Ever wondered why dumb and dumber were willing to be Draco's slaves throughout the series? Draco was a scrawny and short kid and Crabbe and Goyle could easily snap him in half in a muggle style duel but instead they chose to Draco's pawns. The question is, why?


Draco/Crabbe said:
‘No!’ shouted Malfoy, staying Crabbe’s arm as the latter made to repeat his spell. ‘If you wreck the room, you might bury this diadem thing!’

‘What’s that matter?’ said Crabbe, tugging himself free. ‘It’s Potter the Dark Lord wants, who cares about a die-dum?’ ‘Potter came in here to get it,’ said Malfoy with ill-disguised impatience at the slow-wittedness of his colleagues, ‘so that must mean –’ ‘

“Must mean”?’ Crabbe turned on Malfoy with undisguised ferocity. ‘Who cares what you think? I don’t take your orders no more, Draco. You an’ your dad are finished.’

Goyle and Crabbe only followed Draco because of the status his father possessed as being second in command of the Death Eaters. We see more evidence of this when Voldemort places Lucius in command of all the Death Eater forces that sneak into the Ministry. Lucius is in charge of them all, even being seen giving orders to Bella. We then see Bela giving orders to other members of the Death Eater group. They are the clear number 1 and 2. But the biggest piece of evidence that Voldemort values Lucius and Bellatrix over Snape is that he chose to give those two a piece of his soul to safeguard while not doing the same for Snape. Please explain why Voldemort would give a Horcrux to those two over Snape if those two are not in fact stronger than Snape? Oh and Pottermore confirms that Lucius was Voldemort's second in command.

Pottermore said:
He cheered himself up by imagining Voldemort’s triumph, seeing his family honoured under a new regime, and he himself feted at Hogwarts as the important and impressive son of Voldemort’s second-in-command.
https://www.wizardingworld.com/writing-by-jk-rowling/draco-malfoy

According to hype and portrayal, Lucius and Bellatrix are stronger than Snape.

Feats

Things get even worse for Snape once we actually start to look at feats between the two characters. Snape's best feat is destroying Harry Potter by constantly reading his mind with Legilimency and fighting equally with Mcgonagall. Speaking of Legilimency, aka Snape's main weapon when dueling, Snape will not be able to use Legilimency against Bellatrix. How do I know this? Because attempted to use Legilimency against Draco Malfoy and failed miserably, giving the credit to Bellatrix for teaching Draco how to use Occlumency.

Draco/Snape said:
“Who suspects me?” said Malfoy angrily. “For the last time, I didn’t do it, okay? That Bell girl must’ve had an enemy no one knows about — don’t look at me like that! I know what you’re doing, I’m not stupid, but it won’t work — I can stop you!”

There was a pause and then Snape said quietly, “Ah…Aunt Bellatrix has been teaching you Occlumency, I see. What thoughts are you trying to conceal from your master, Draco?”
Slightly awkward if Snape is confirmed being unable to use one of his favourite fighting tactic in a duel with Bellatrix, isn't it?

Meanwhile if we look at Bellatrix's feats, we know she killed Sirius, Tonks, and Dobby. She defeated Kingsley, Greyback's gang of Snatchers, fought with Hermione, Ginny, and Luna equally at the same time, and managed to be the only person besides Voldemort and Grindlewald to block an attack from Dumbledore. It should be self explanatory why Bellatrix's feats are far superior to Snape's.

Speaking of Dumbledore, we actually get to see how Bellatrix and Snape both handle Dumbledore in a duel. As I explained earlier, Bellatrix was able to block Dumbledore's attack, so all Snape has to do is also block Dumbledore's initial attack if they are to have equal portrayal. Should be simple enough, right?

Snape/Dumbledore said:
The adult Snape was panting, turning on the spot, his wand gripped tightly in his hand, waiting for something or for someone … his fear infected Harry, too, even though he knew that he could not be harmed, and he looked over his shoulder, wondering what it was that Snape was waiting for –

Then a blinding, jagged jet of white light flew through the air: Harry thought of lightning, but Snape had dropped to his knees and his wand had flown out of his hand.

‘Don’t kill me!’

‘That was not my intention.’

Any sound of Dumbledore Apparating had been drowned by the sound of the wind in the branches. He stood before Snape with his robes whipping around him, and his face was illuminated from below in the light cast by his wand.

So Bellatrix was able to block Dumbledore's initial attack, meanwhile Snape was disarmed and instantly fell to his knees begging for his life. But somehow Snape is stronger than Bellatrix according to the majority of the Harry Potter fandom? Makes sense.

Now I am well aware that Bellatrix has an embarrassing feat against Molly, but I have a simple rebuttal for that. At least Molly is an adult. Because if I had to choose between getting my ass kicked by an adult, or by underage, unqualified, 13 year old wizards, I know which one I would pick in a heart beat.

Snape vs 13 year olds said:
Harry made up his mind in a split second. Before Snape could take even one step toward him, he had raised his wand.

“Expelliarmus!” he yelled — except that his wasn’t the only voice that shouted. There was a blast that made the door rattle on its hinges; Snape was lifted off his feet and slammed into the wall, then slid down it to the floor, a trickle of blood oozing from under his hair. He had been knocked out.

Harry looked around. Both Ron and Hermione had tried to disarm Snape at exactly the same moment. Snape’s wand soared in a high arc and landed on the bed next to Crookshanks.
The "Harry made up his mind in a split second. Before Snape could take even one step toward him, he had raised his wand." is extremely funny, because it basically means that a 13 year old Harry was able to move so fast that Snape couldn't even react. Now personally, I find this feat bullshit. But if Molly vs Bellatrix is going to be brought up, then so will this feat as well. Let's keep it consistent.

Overall, I think the question is not "Who wins between Bellatrix vs Snape?", but instead "What difficulty can Snape give Bellatrix before he ends up losing their duel?"

Bellatrix has superior hype, portrayal, and feats compared to Snape. She also is confirmed being able to prevent Snape from reading her mind, and we know that is one of Snape's favourite strategies in a duel, as was made painfully clear in Snape vs Harry in the 6th book.

Snape vs Harry said:
“Cruc —” yelled Harry for the second time, aiming for the figure ahead illuminated in the dancing firelight, but Snape blocked the spell again. Harry could see him sneering.

“No Unforgivable Curses from you, Potter!” he shouted over the rushing of the flames, Hagrid’s yells, and the wild yelping of the trapped Fang. “You haven’t got the nerve or the ability —” “

Incarc —”Harry roared, but Snape deflected the spell with an almost lazy flick of his arm. “

Fight back!” Harry screamed at him. “Fight back, you cowardly —”

“Coward, did you call me, Potter?” shouted Snape. “Your father would never attack me unless it was four on one, what would you call him, I wonder?”

“Stupe —”

“Blocked again and again and again until you learn to keep your mouth shut and your mind closed, Potter!” sneered Snape, deflecting the curse once more. “Now come!” he shouted at the huge Death Eater behind Harry. “It is time to be gone, before the Ministry turns up —”
 
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RayanOO

Lazy is the way
#9
Hype/Portrayal

Snape isn't Voldemort's strongest subordinate, he's not even Voldemort's second strongest subordinate. Those titles go to Lucius and and Bellatrix. How do I know? Because Voldemort treated those two better than all his Death Eaters, at least before the fiasco at the Ministry in the 5th book and Snape killing Dumbledore in the 6th book. Afterwards Snape became Voldemort's right hand man and Lucius/Bella fell out of favour. However, I find it very interesting that for 95% of Death Eater timespan, Voldemort held Lucius/Bella above all Death Eaters.
Don't you think Snape blood status was a part of this answer ?

Malfoy and Black are the two biggest wealthiest with likely the best network families and they are extra pure. Moreover Bella and Lucius are good to great wizards.

If I was in Voldy shoes I would have granted them a particular rank too. Those families were likely quite important to him.

And Snape couldn't be his main guy due to him being a spy in Hogwart. Snaps couldn't raid the ministry like that.

But Snape was Dumby closest and right hand man if we are talking about the war. Minerva was maybe his closest friend but about the war topics and projects Snape was Dumby man.

So Snape was Dumby right hand man and was also Voldy right hand/left hand in the end.

Two of the most powerful and smartest wizard ever choose him.

Snaps being headmaster in Hogwart more wise only show more that he is special. Hogwart being THE place of the books.

Please explain why Voldemort would give a Horcrux to those two over Snape if those two are not in fact stronger than Snape? Oh and Pottermore confirms that Lucius was Voldemort's second in command.
Multiple reasons :

- extremely faithful death eater
- to make them special : voldy needed loyalty from his men, and devotion. I think giving them something important to him, made them feel special.
- the level of protection : being very old and wealthy families they could protect them better : Black bank vault was extremely well protected. I think Malfoy is the same.

Voldy world was the world of blood purity of course those two families are high ranked in his army.

The fact an half blood extra poor managed to put himself at the top is even more impressive.
 

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
#11
fighting equally with Mcgonagall
You said it as if it wasn't impressive. McGo is a really powerful witch. With a very very high mastery of magic. And the fight was impressive, except with Voldy vs DUmby we rarely saw that level of magic trick.

And as we saw during the duel McGo went for the kill : sent daggers toward him. While Snape didn't want to fight her and only wanted to defend himself/run away. McGo went for the blood where Snape still liked McGo and didn't want to harm her.

This feat is even more impressive.

Snape also managed to break from Flitwick spell and ran away.

This is a great feat for Snape duelling wise.

Speaking of Legilimency, aka Snape's main weapon when dueling, Snape will not be able to use Legilimency against Bellatrix.
You talked about legilimency as if it is the only tools for Snape and that he is powerless without it.

Once again, during the only fight he had with a great witch we have no way to know if he read McGo mind or not. The only real feat for Snape duelling wise the guy was good. McGo didn't use verbal spells and can likely protect herself well.

Snape is an expert in dark magic white magic and how to fight dark magic. He has other tools than Legilimency to fight someone.

The "Harry made up his mind in a split second. Before Snape could take even one step toward him, he had raised his wand." is extremely funny, because it basically means that a 13 year old Harry was able to move so fast that Snape couldn't even react. Now personally, I find this feat bullshit. But if Molly vs Bellatrix is going to be brought up, then so will this feat as well. Let's keep it consistent.
Yeah Snape was knocked out by 13 y HP but clearly this is an anti feat and a plot feat. Snape didn't expect at all to be attacked by Potter.

Here is a speed feat for Snape : a real one in battle.

Professor McGonagall moved faster than Harry could have believed: Her wand slashed through the air and for a split second Harry thought that Snape must crumple, unconscious, but the swiftness of his Shield Charm was such that McGonagall was thrown off balance.

So Bellatrix was able to block Dumbledore's initial attack, meanwhile Snape was disarmed and instantly fell to his knees begging for his life. But somehow Snape is stronger than Bellatrix according to the majority of the Harry Potter fandom? Makes sense.
You can't really compare the two situations.

(if I remember well)

Snape didn't seek Dumbledore to fight him and was in dire need of his help to save Lily, was mentally a mess etc.

Snape was not here for a fight.

We saw in the ministry that if Dumby was really focused on Bella, he can pin her down in no time.

It is a good feat for Bella indeed but the Snape moment was different.
 
#14
I would go with snape bellatrix is strong and has incredible duel knowledge, but snape has shown incredible magic proficiency and if I remeber right he is the only one except voldy to use his flight spell.
Also snape was super cool and from my poit of view the real hero of the story hell Dumbledore was more evil than him
 
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