Manga Discussion Berserk

he absolutely was :(
Yeah been reading this chapter. The characters in Berserk all seem to be kinda f*ed up. Either they are psychopatic maniacs, amoral dipshits or the victims of such characters. Or both.
Guts has some toxic, destructive traits too.

There seem to be almost no healthy human relationships in this series.

As of now it seems as if the entire story is mostly about revenge.

The violence imo has a lot of (body)horror elements which makes it less realistic and at the same time more easily to digest. It's rather disgusting and gross than gory.

When I compare it to Vagabond the depiction of violence is very different. There it's more realistic and you actually feel more attached to the victims.
Berserk seems more like a huge surreal nightmare.
 
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Yeah been reading this chapter. The characters in Berserk all seem to be kinda f*ed up. Either they are psychopatic maniacs, amoral dipshits or the victims of such characters. Or both.
Guts has some toxic, destructive traits too.
You've completed the Black Swordsman arc and have just started the Golden Age. Just as a head-ups, the intro arc for Berserk is almost universally regarded as the weakest part of the series, whereas the second arc is widely considered one of the best story arcs in manga as a medium.

If you've read Vagabond or Vinland, you've seen scenarios where a character is initially presented in a certain state before progressing out of it/developing. Something very similar happens in Berserk, only the story is bidirectional. It's a long story to explain how Guts progresses to where he is in the Black Swordsman arc, and it's a long story to explain how he progresses out of it.

There seem to be almost no healthy human relationships in this series.
Get hyped my guy. As someone who occasionally reads Shojo/romantic stories, I think the current arc of Berserk has one of if not the best romances I've ever seen in a non-romance/Shojo story. Just be prepared for things to fall apart at the end in the most messed up way possible.

When I compare it to Vagabond the depiction of violence is very different. There it's more realistic and you actually feel more attached to the victims.
I'm very interested to see where you're at by the end of the Golden Age. I agree that on the violence in Vagabond being more realistic, but when it comes to caring about characters I actually have the opposite view, but it's largely based on stuff in Berserk you haven't seen.

Berserk will literally spend over a hundred chapters developing major and minor characters before killing them horrifically, whereas a lot of time characters in Vagabond will just fight and get themselves killed for no reason (for a specific example, think of the group of soldiers who fought Kyoshiro on the mountain at the end of his intro arc .... just cuz- even Inoue admits he didn't really know what he was doing here).

Berserk seems more like a huge surreal nightmare.
I actually think this is a very good/accurate description of the Black Swordsman arc. I'm stealing it.

Very interested to hear your thoughts on the series as things go forward. Btw, have you completed Vagabond or Vinland Saga or are you reading one or both with Berserk?
 
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Very interested to hear your thoughts on the series as things go forward. Btw, have you completed Vagabond or Vinland Saga or are you reading one or both with Berserk?
I've re-read Vagabond multiple times over the last years. Haven't read Vinland saga.

If you've read Vagabond or Vinland, you've seen scenarios where a character is initially presented in a certain state before progressing out of it/developing. Something very similar happens in Berserk, only the story is bidirectional. It's a long story to explain how Guts progresses to where he is in the Black Swordsman arc, and it's a long story to explain how he progresses out of it.
So that means there will be maaany flashbacks? I'm interested in seeing how Guts turned out this way, he's actually sort of an asshole. The way he treats Theresia while seeing her father turn into a disgusting demon and being sucked into hell turned her from an innocent girl to a vengeful crazy b*tch, for example.
, I think the current arc of Berserk has one of if not the best romances I've ever seen in a non-romance/Shojo story.
So you're saying there will be a romantic relationship that does NOT involve rape or abuse?
I'm interested now...
Let me guess... it's Guts×Casca? I hope he won't rape her. Or that noone else rapes her. Well, someone WILL probably rape her, right?:lusalty:
Just be prepared for things to fall apart at the end in the most messed up way possible.
If I have understood anything from Berserk yet it's that things can get very messed up in this series. It's like this author's brain can produce an endless repartoire of messed up shit.

Berserk will literally spend over a hundred chapters developing major and minor characters before killing them horrifically,
It's like Miura wants to torture the readers. What messed up shit has this guy been through?!
 
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I've re-read Vagabond multiple times over the last years. Haven't read Vinland saga.


So that means there will be maaany flashbacks? I'm interested in seeing how Guts turned out this way, he's actually sort of an asshole. The way he treats Theresia while seeing her father turn into a disgusting demon and being sucked into hell turned her from an innocent girl to a vengeful crazy b*tch, for example.

So you're saying there will be a romantic relationship that does NOT involve rape or abuse?
I'm interested now...
Let me guess... it's Guts×Casca? I hope he won't rape her. Or that noone else rapes her. Well, someone WILL probably rape her, right?:lusalty:

If I have understood anything from Berserk yet it's that things can get very messed up in this series. It's like this author's brain can produce an endless repartoire of messed up shit.


It's like Miura wants to torture the readers. What messed up shit has this guy been through?!
The current flashback you’re reading is 100 chapters.
 
I've read some shit a few days ago before I returned but I lost the link.

Is that true that Miura's editors have his drafts/story boards and they will continue the publication if Miura's family agrees?


Sad to see him go. He didn't seem to be ill or shit.

Shit happens man.
 
I've read some shit a few days ago before I returned but I lost the link.

Is that true that Miura's editors have his drafts/story boards and they will continue the publication if Miura's family agrees?


Sad to see him go. He didn't seem to be ill or shit.

Shit happens man.
All I’ve seen is Miura’s chief assistant saying he doesn’t know what’s going to happen and isn’t in a position to decide.

Personally I think it’s happened so suddenly that there won’t be enough to continue the series, but that’s just my opinion.
 
All I’ve seen is Miura’s chief assistant saying he doesn’t know what’s going to happen and isn’t in a position to decide.

Personally I think it’s happened so suddenly that there won’t be enough to continue the series, but that’s just my opinion.
That sucks from a reader perspective. Although it's a fucking tragedy and I feel bad for his family and his fans worldwide. He blessed us with what can be considered top 1 manga in many aspects.

Fucking shit man. I hope he went to a better place.
 
This is probably a hard pill for people to swallow, but Guts was never going to defeat Griffith in the end. Such a victory would be way too fanservice-y and dumb, especially with how much more cataclysmicly more powerful than Guts the Godhand are.

Even if Guts would’ve pulled off some Fairy Tail level bullshit about beating God Griffith in a fight, Guts himself would still feel pain in the end, killing or beating Griffith would not change that.

The only way Guts could’ve truly stuck it to Griffith, is by walking away and healing from him. Griffith is a narcissist who fed off of the anger/emotions that Guts felt toward him, only a complete reaction of indifference could’ve made Griffith truly suffer, and that would only come if Guts would’ve found the strength to walk away from Griffith in the end.

I think Miura foreshadowed this right at the beginning of the boat arc, where a very wounded Guts actually laid eyes on reincarnated Griffith, but simply closed his eyes and went to sleep as Griffith set out to face Shiva Ganishka. Guts and Casca were both beginning to heal from the trauma they suffered, going back to fight Griffith in the end, even if they win, would still leave them as nothing more than slaves to the pain that Griffith caused them, which would not complete Guts’ arc of wanting to find his own dream and his own reasons for living.

I never wanted to see Guts kill Griffith, I wanted to see Guts heal, which for me always meant not killing Griffith in the end.
 
This is probably a hard pill for people to swallow, but Guts was never going to defeat Griffith in the end. Such a victory would be way too fanservice-y and dumb, especially with how much more cataclysmicly more powerful than Guts the Godhand are.

Even if Guts would’ve pulled off some Fairy Tail level bullshit about beating God Griffith in a fight, Guts himself would still feel pain in the end, killing or beating Griffith would not change that.

The only way Guts could’ve truly stuck it to Griffith, is by walking away and healing from him. Griffith is a narcissist who fed off of the anger/emotions that Guts felt toward him, only a complete reaction of indifference could’ve made Griffith truly suffer, and that would only come if Guts would’ve found the strength to walk away from Griffith in the end.

I think Miura foreshadowed this right at the beginning of the boat arc, where a very wounded Guts actually laid eyes on reincarnated Griffith, but simply closed his eyes and went to sleep as Griffith set out to face Shiva Ganishka. Guts and Casca were both beginning to heal from the trauma they suffered, going back to fight Griffith in the end, even if they win, would still leave them as nothing more than slaves to the pain that Griffith caused them, which would not complete Guts’ arc of wanting to find his own dream and his own reasons for living.

I never wanted to see Guts kill Griffith, I wanted to see Guts heal, which for me always meant not killing Griffith in the end.
Miura literally said in an interview that the story is about Guts getting revenge on Griffith.

My guess was that Guts and Casca would remove their brands, making Griffith lose his powers since his sacrifice was incomplete, leaving him in his crippled pre-Eclipse state.
 
I don’t care lol. He would’ve subverted expectations for a more meaningful ending instead of a fanservice one. The Skull Knight and Guts’ conversation about an “unhappy ending” already foreshadowed a non-straightforward ending.
The problem here is your assumption that getting revenge on Griffith means Guts and him dueling and Guts somehow defeating him. That would clearly never happen.

But Griffith does need to be defeated. It’s very obvious that Fantasia is not his end goal and that both his overarching intentions and those of the godhand are sinister. On a meta-narrative level, it would make literally no sense for Griffith to not be defeated.
 
The problem here is your assumption that getting revenge on Griffith means Guts and him dueling and Guts somehow defeating him. That would clearly never happen.

But Griffith does need to be defeated. It’s very obvious that Fantasia is not his end goal and that both his overarching intentions and those of the godhand are sinister. On a meta-narrative level, it would make literally no sense for Griffith to not be defeated.
What even are Griffith’s overall intentions? To have his own Kingdom? How is that evil? He keeps all of the people inside safe and happy. What about that must be stopped? And since when does Guts care about protecting or saving people anyway?

Guts’ literal only motive to defeat Griffith is revenge for what he did to the Hawk. Making Guts a slave to his own pain, the only way for him to overcome this is by not defeating Griffith, especially when there is literally no other reason for Griffith to be defeated.

Thinking Griffith is objectively evil and must be stopped is exactly the kind of nonsensical binary false dichotomy morality that Miura had spent 30 years satirizing.
 
What even are Griffith’s overall intentions? To have his own Kingdom? How is that evil? He keeps all of the people inside safe and happy. What about that must be stopped? And since when does Guts care about protecting or saving people anyway?
Guts and Danan literally talked about this in Elfhelm. The true goal of the Godhand and the entity in the astral world they obey (strongly implied to be the idea of evil) extends beyond simply the creation of Falconia and is almost definitely not a good thing. Guts literally told her he has no idea what Griffith’s intentions are now, and that his ambition would never stop, even after obtaining a kingdom.

Guts’ literal only motive to defeat Griffith is revenge for what he did to the Hawk.
You seem to be misunderstanding what I’m saying. Guts will find some other motivation for taking out Griffith, whether it be protecting Casca/freeing them from the brand, or even protecting his comrades and the world at large.

Guts overcoming his trauma doesn’t change the fact that the story has literally laid out the godhand as embodiments of evil with sinister intentions for humanity.

You’re projecting the post-violence/pacifist themes from Vagabond and Vinland Saga onto Berserk when literally there’s no precedent for that in the story.

especially when there is literally no other reason for Griffith to be defeated.
But the godhand do. Remember, Griffith is literally just another piece in the godhand/idea of evil’s long term plans.

Thinking Griffith is objectively evil and must be stopped is exactly the kind of nonsensical binary false dichotomy morality that Miura had spent 30 years satirizing.
Miura has literally said that morality and good/evil are not themes he’s interested in tackling in his story. Themes like trauma, existentialism, ambition, destiny, and free will are the thematic cornerstones of Berserk, and I would argue that saying Berserk is a commentary on morality is a misreading.
 
Guts overcoming his trauma doesn’t change the fact that the story has literally laid out the godhand as embodiments of evil with a sinister intentions for humanity.
Owngoal inbound:

Miura has literally said that morality and good/evil are not themes he’s interested in tackling in his story.
Concession accepted. There is no such thing as objective evil in Berserk.
 
Owngoal inbound:



Concession accepted. There is no such thing as objective evil in Berserk.
Ok. So then the idea of evil will just destroy the world while Guts and co. tee off and watch from Efhelm? Eventually getting killed themselves?

My issue here is that we never learned the true goal of the godhand/idea of evil, and I think we were about to learn that before Miura passed.

I agree with you that Guts no longer targeting Griffith because of revenge is key, but what I’m saying is that Guts will find a reason other than revenge to stop Griffith/the godhand.
 
Ok. So then the idea of evil will just destroy the world while Guts and co. tee off and watch from Efhelm?
Since when does Guts want to destroy the idea of Evil, or even know what it is? On that subject, didn’t Miura make the concept non-canon for the time being?

The idea of evil is a manifestation of humanity’s negative emotions. Is Guts supposed to destroy an abstract metaphorical construct by shoving his sword through it? Is Guts a literal god in the end by destroying the ultimate embodiment of evil? You see what I mean that this shit sounds fan-servicy and Fairy Tail level?

So much for the central theme of Berserk being about the futility of human existence, apparently EOS was is going to literally kill evil. Lmfao
 
Miura literally said in an interview that the story is about Guts getting revenge on Griffith.

My guess was that Guts and Casca would remove their brands, making Griffith lose his powers since his sacrifice was incomplete, leaving him in his crippled pre-Eclipse state.
Fair but you know that Mangakas say a lot of stuff and sometimes change their methods of writing or even plot itself looking at the way the story shaped up.
 
Since when does Guts want to destroy the idea of Evil, or even know what it is? On that subject, didn’t Miura make the concept non-canon for the time being?
Miura removed the idea of evil, because of spoilers. Schierke’s master Flora literally said the godhand serve a mysterious entity deep in the astral world and that is canon.
The idea of evil is a manifestation of humanity’s negative emotions.
Incorrect. The idea of evil is a manifestation of humanity’s desire for meaning. And it creates meaning though suffering.

Since when does Guts want to destroy the idea of Evil, or even know what it is? On that subject, didn’t Miura make the concept non-canon for the time being?

The idea of evil is a manifestation of humanity’s negative emotions. Is Guts supposed to destroy an abstract metaphorical construct by shoving his sword through it? Is Guts a literal god in the end by destroying the ultimate embodiment of evil? You see what I mean that this shit sounds fan-servicy and Fairy Tail level?
What are you talking about? Why are you assuming that stopping the godhand = defeating someone or something in a fight.

So much for the central theme of Berserk being about the futility of human existence, apparently EOS was is going to literally kill evil. Lmfao
Yikes. This is literally the exact opposite of the main theme lmaoooo
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Fair but you know that Mangakas say a lot of stuff and sometimes change their methods of writing or even plot itself looking at the way the story shaped up.
But like he said that in 2019????
 
Yikes. This is literally the exact opposite of the main theme lmaoooo
The main theme of Berserk is the idea of struggling against the inevitable. It’s about how no matter how much Guts struggles, he ultimately accomplishes nothing in the end but still struggles to defy his fate.

But you tend to miss subtlety when you think Guts is going to kill evil with a sword.
 
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