Best Character Development Tourney #2 - Round 2

Vote for your favourite!


  • Total voters
    26
  • Poll closed .

Adam ๐ŸŽ

Pretty Boy
โ€Ž
#1
MPORTANT:

I WILL NOT COUNT VOTES FROM THOSE WHO DO NOT VOTE FOR EACH FIGHT. ALSO IF I SEE OR NOTICE SOME SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY THAT ENTRY WILL BE DISQUALIFIED.

In this round in this thread we will have 3 Fights!
You have 3 votes!


Fight Fight

Iron Man from Marvel
vs

Rickety Cricket from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
Cricket was introduced to us as a priest, able to put aside his own trauma & do some good. But as the series progresses, he's more akin to creature

By interacting with the group who tormented him through his childhood he;
- Lost the priesthood
- Became homeless
- Started selling drugs
- Got addicted to drugs
- Received multiple life altering injuries (lost kidney/broken legs/neck gash/hand gunshot wound/3rd degree burns on half his face)
- Got infections from untreated wounds
- Lost all contact with his family
- Got in dog packs/fights (basically became a dog)
all for people who can so little about him, they leave him in a burning apartment

By the later seasons, he's completely unrecognizable from his intro, willing to do ANYTHING for ANY amount, literally putting himself in a cage begging to be put down


Second Fight

Prince Zuko from Avatar

Zuko is introduced in episode 1 with the single minded goal of capturing Aang, and the show's intention at first is to portray Zuko as a clear villain and antagonist. All Zuko does for the first few episodes is say "gotta capture aang! gotta capture aang! gotta capture aang!" over and over again. You could go as far as to say that Aang is living rent free in Zuko's head. So yeah, first impression is that Zuko is another generic and bland villain.
We then learn that Zuko is a far more nuanced character. We discover that the reason he's chasing the Avatar is because he was banished for caring about the lives of his country men, which shows that Zuko isn't the one dimensional villain that we thought we was in episode 1. This shows that all Zuko wants deep down isn't to capture the Avatar, but that he simply wants his father love and he desperately wants to go home.

Zuko getting banished and getting his scar!

The ironic thing is that Zuko has an uncle who loves him and treats him like his own son, but he's so obsessed with getting his father's love and approval that he turns a blind eye to his uncle's love. Zuko is so obsessed with winning his father's respect that he goes so far as to betray his nation and commits treason by setting the Avatar free after some Fire Nation soliders capture him. This is where Zuko starts to blur the line and where the viewer starts to question is Zuko is really an antagonist and villain. Zuko is fighting the bad guys from his nation in order to free the main character. Even if Zuko is only doing this just to capture Aang himself, you can't help but feel there's more to Zuko"s character.

Zuko saving Aang and betraying his nation!


The rest of Season 1 is Zuko constantly trying to capture Aang and constantly catching Ls so let's skip that and fast forward to Season 2. Season 2 gets more interesting for Zuko's character development since now Zuko's father has sent Zuko's sister to capture Zuko and his uncle. So now Zuko is being hunted after by his own countrymen, the same countrymen that he tried saving in the first place which led to his banishment.

Zuko being declared a fugitive/traitor and being hunted down!


As the stress of Zuko being hunted down as a traitor and fugitive gets to him, we see Zuko slowly and slowly go further to the dark side. He starts robbing people all day everyday, constantly disrespects his uncle, and just acts more and more unpleasant. Eventually his sister Azula needs his help and she offers Zuko a way to return home, as long as Zuko helps her capture the avatar and their uncle. In other words, Zuko has to choose between returning home and getting his father's love, or standing by the uncle who lived with him in exile when he had nobody else. Zuko decides to betray his uncle and side with his sister, the same sister that was trying to capture him all throughout season 2 lmao. Zuko's lowest and most shameful point by far.


Zuko betraying his uncle! Boo!!! *throws tomato at Zuko*


So Season 3 starts and Zuko finally faces his father. His father praises him, he got a girlfriend off-panel, the citizens of the Fire Nation all praise his return. Zuko finally got everything he wanted.


Zuko returning home and everyone cheering for him!


And yet despite getting everything he's finally wanted, Zuko is still not happy. The guilt of his uncle rotting in prison while he's living the 10/10 rich life gets to him. Eventually Zuko realizes that he doesn't need his father's love and approval, and that the Fire Nation is an evil and tyrannical nation that has caused countless amount of death and destruction. Zuko then decides to confront his father and tell him all of this. Zuko's father is proud of him after hearing all of this and tells Zuko he leave the Fire Nation in peace. Just kidding, Zuko's fathers first reaction is to murder Zuko after hearing this. Zuko's sister also tries killing Zuko after hearing this.

Zuko's crazy father trying to kill him!

Zuko's crazy sister trying to kill him!


Zuko then joins Aang's group and becomes Aang's firebending teacher. In other words, Zuko goes from a villain and an antagonist to now becoming a good guy and one of the protagonists. Zuko ends up teaching Aang firebending quite well and he manages to integrate himself with the main characters quite well, going on 1 on 1 trips with Aang, Katara, and Sokka, (sorry Toph lmao).

Eventually though, Zuko challenges his sister to a duel to determine who the next Fire Lord will be. Azula loses the deal and Zuko becomes the new Fire Lord and the 100 year war is finally over.

Zuko's sister getting her ass kicked!

Zuko becoming the new Fire Lord!


Zuko's character development is phenomenal and it was beautiful watching him start off as a villain and antagonist and slowly turning into a protagonist and good guy over 3 seasons

vs

Tony Soprano from Sopranos
Why Tony Soprano is the greatest TV character of all time (faroutmagazine.co.uk)


Third Fight

Walter White from Breaking Bad


Walter White's evolution into Heisenberg is one of fiction's prime example of great character development.

Once a meek, subservient normal everyday man, Walter's life as a chemistry teacher and family man drastically changes when he's diagnosed with stage 3 lung cancer following his 50th birthday. A terminal illness.

He's in shock. Falls into a little bit of despair. A little bit of disbelief. How can he manage to provide financial stability to his family in the event of his passing, when they aren't very stable in the first place?

Along comes Jesse Pinkman, a college dropout who White himself failed. Together, (with white's chem knowledge and Pinkman as the cook) they would go on to create a new era of meth empire which takes the cartel and other members of the underworld by storm.



Throughout 5 seasons of cooking, killing, cleaning, running from the law, and stacking, the once run of the mil boring and kind family man slowly turns into a cynical, manipulative, cold blooded Kingpin.

His initial goal of providing for his family is slowly left in the dust as he's making far more than he could ever spend in 10 lifetimes, and all that remains is his pride, and a deep rooted narcissism that craves for recognition. He wants people know it's him. He wants people to fear him, acknowledge that's it's his product, wants them to worship his intelligence, he's wants them to acknowledge that he's powerful. No longer weak. And he gets to do all that through his 'alter ego' Heisenberg. As a man who's lived a very average and boring life (his only ever achivement being a part of group who helped in getting a Nobel prize some 20 odd years ago) , giving into this new persona is a gratifying experience, and unsurprisingly comes easily.

Yet, even as he falls deeper into the rabbit hole, becomes more aggressive, ruthless and starts lying as easily as he breathes for his own objectives, on occasions you can still see the Walter White in him. He is still there, cracks within the Heisenberg. In moments of extreme panic, plans go to shit or when he's talking to his family he's still there. After going through so much together, and even psychologically abusing the kid, even at the peak of Heisenberg, he still had enough love and humanity remaining to grant Jesse freedom. That's the beauty of such a character.

In short, Heisenberg is what happens when a man has nothing to lose, everything to gain, meets one final opportunity.


vs

Meruem from HXH
Even before Meruem is an actual entity, he is crafting an atmosphere in the work he will appear in; when he finally is born, the watcher/reader understands Meruem is a being of absolute, terrible strength. In fact, the brutal nature of Meruem's birth reveals the animalistic, tyrannical qualities of the king--as well as the humane nature the ants can display, as seen when they surround the dying Queen and ask Morel and Knov for help.



Meruem at first doesn't stray from this one-dimensional characterization of a ruthless tyrant that puts power above all else. He's the ultimate evil. He wants to rule the weak, and perceives strength as the only necessary pillar of his philosophy for domination. He shows respect for the strong, like his Royal Guards. He thinks the weak are below contempt, not even worth eating. At this point, Togashi does a good job of characterizing Meruem in this one-dimensional way, but Meruem isn't anything special.


The first set of subtle impetuses for change is Meruem's encounters with Komugi, the world's best Gungi player. Komugi becomes the obstacle Meruem cannot beat. Imagine thinking it is your birthright, the natural law, for you to be the strongest being in existence--only to be bested by one of the weakest creatures among you. Naturally, through each interaction and loss Meruem starts to question segments of his philosophy: I'm a king, why can't I win? Is physical power necessarily the only power? How can a mere human, someone so weak, beat an absolute being? We see intimately the inner workings of Meruem's thought process as he begins to question his purpose. Yet, there is no drastic transition just yet, only the set up of the potential for Meruem to be something better than he currently is.



When Meruem decides to kill Komugi with brute force to show his philosophy is indeed correct, he ends up saving her. This is the first moment where humanity triumphs over the animal. Komugi calls him the nicest person she has ever met. This tyrant, an animal who has brutally killed children, women and men can at the same time exhibit the quality of compassion? This is when Meruem realizes Komugi's significance is greater than that of an obstacle to him, and perhaps the moment when he starts a transition into his human nature. Note here Meruem's interactions aren't only embellishing his own character arc, but are adding to the themes in the CAA arc in fundamental ways. Throughout the palace invasion arc, we will observe conflicting ideals at work: animals exhibiting the best of human qualities, and humans exhibiting the worst of animalistic qualities. Meruem's role in HxH emphasizes the former ideal, while Gon represents the latter.

Meruem, at this point, undergoes an existential crisis. He doesn't know what he wants. He believed himself to be a tyrant who lusts for power, but now he finds himself protecting the weak, contradicting the philosophy he set up where the strong survive and the weak perish. When the palace invasion arc starts and Komugi is injured, Meruem takes his stance after many episodes of thoughtful questioning; he decides to protect Komugi, one of the weak.

However, he is not fully human at this point. In fact, one might say his original philosophy hasn't been eradicated, only modified. He still believes absolute strength exists, only that it can come in different forms. He still believes humans are capable of great evil, but a select few are capable of good. He isn't an animal anymore, but he isn't human either. Netero realizes this internal struggle, and he himself is also hesitant at first to kill someone who isn't an animal. Here, we note Togashi is not only carefully crafting the transition of Meruem from animal to man, but is also doing it in an organic way. Everything up to this point, every decision Meruem makes and every question he asks, is believable. There is no drastic jump from immoral to moral, only steady steps that might lead to morality, but can also lead to a deeper, modified sense of the original entity Meruem once was. There is always the possibility of Meruem to revert, and this compliments the intensity of the struggle of animal vs man within him.

When the fight does begin, Netero is the aggressor, and Meruem isn't. It's an ironic reversal; Netero using the Guanyin Bodhisattva, the ultimate Nen incarnation of mercy and forgiveness, to destroy someone, while Meruem is actually the real Buddha figure attempting to show mercy and understanding. This sort of reversal of roles, one in which the animal is actual the most humane and the humans are the most inhumane, comes into play once more. However, when Netero activates the Miniature Rose, this role reversal reaches a peak. There should be a sense of triumph for humanity's win when Netero destroys himself to save humanity. In fact, it almost parallels a Messianic prophecy, like Jesus dying for the sins of humanity to save humanity. Instead, I can guarantee most watchers/readers just felt a sense of regret, of pain. Netero says "Do not underestimate humanity's infinite potential for evolution". But at this point, we take it as "Do not underestimate humanity's infinite potential for destruction". Netero told Meruem his name as well, and said it means "The Light that illuminates all". This meaning itself is almost Messianic as well, and we can observe here that perhaps Meruem is the true Messiah in this situation, the real upholder of humanity's best qualities.

And here we can probably see how exactly Meruem mirrors the other most pivotal person in HxH: Gon. Gon himself has been going through his own sort of development, the intricacies of which we can discuss another time. At the start of Hunter, Gon was a simple, naive boy full of optimism. But, there was always this potential for a sort of sadism within him. He had brute power, but was naive and unaware of how much hurt it could cause. He was selfish: in his fight with Genthru, he put the plan behind testing his power. So while Gon could be seen as a bright, hopeful boy -- maybe even the epitome of humanity's greatest qualities-- there was always a potential to be something worse, as there is in all of us: humanity's potential for destruction. And that's what makes his downward spiral both organic and a counter to Meruem's upward progression.

When Gon realizes Kite has died, the moment is similar to when Meruem realizes Komugi is hurt. Yet while Meruem chooses to exhibit the best of humanity, to forgive and understand the other side, Gon descends into the darkness, becoming the animal he swore he would destroy. He feels nothing but pure hatred for Pitou, and gives up everything (his nen of course, but also his status as one who exhibits the best of humanity) to eradicate Pitou until nothing's left. The animal chooses to be human, and the human chooses to be animal; it's another ironic reversal, and it's one that compliments the CAA's own themes of showing humanity's potential to degrade itself.

Meruem does survive the bomb, but recovers without any memories. We mentioned before there was always that intense possibility of Meruem to revert, to go back to what he once was after all this time. Well, the possibility comes into fruition here. Meruem is once again a tyrant, his characterization forgotten. Humanity has failed: not just in Netero's failures, not just in Gon's descent into becoming a beast, but also in Meruem's human side losing to the animal. But at the end of the CAA, what prevails within Meruem isn't his sense of power. It isn't his feelings on the strong and the weak. What prevails is the humanity within him, the care he feels for another human being. Meruem never does beat Komugi in his life, but he does die with her.



He accepts his mortality. What's more, the CAA doesn't use Meruem to end on a despondent note of humanity being something evil. It is through humanity, or more so the qualities of humanity that lend itself to altruism and care, by which the most unforgiving, ruthless tyrant in all of HxH is saved. Without Meruem, the CAA would have been an arc founded on a simple theme of good vs evil. Yet through Meruem, we go beyond the exterior intrapersonal conflict and delve deep into the nuance of the interpersonal one, a nuanced battle where the true nature of humanity is questioned and challenged, but also praised and commended.

The transition from animal to man might not be the most profound or novel transition in fictional work. But, character development goes beyond the type of the transition a character undergoes: good development comes from how the character undergoes said transition. And I believe Meruem's example is the greatest enactment of his type of transition, and through this Meruem reaches a gold standard in character development.

@Adam ๐ŸŽ @AkainuTheGrimReaper @Arondight @Artorias @ArturCantSpeakJapanese @AverageNamiEnjoyer @Awayeah @B Rabbit @BaboonMihawk @BakiDou @balajiram99 @Balen @Baluzi @BangOO๐Ÿ… @BarbosaXIII @Beerbottle @bennbeckman @Bepo @Bil02 @Blackbeard [ @Cherry Hilk @Chessaddict @Chrono @Cinera @CoC: Color of Clowns @comrade @ConquistadoR @Courier @Cream filled donut7 @Cross_Marian @Crush @Cruxroux @Cutty Jewboy @Cyrus the Cactus @D.Querna @Da evil Who @Daikenki @Dark Admiral @Dark Hound @DarkestKnightofSpoilers @DarkWitch @Date @Debanv @Den_Den_Mushi @Desolate Smaug @Dettles @dirtyLarry @dizzy2341 @djiayebee @DKI @Doggo @Don DaSlayer @Don Diego @Don't Mind Me @DonWick @Draco @Dr_Professor83 @duckman @Ekkologix @Electricmastro @Enma @EtenBoby @Eustass @Franosuke @FaradaySloth @Fleet Admiral Lee Hung @Fleet Leader Fenaker @FloriGlori @Flower @Flynn @Fn Lucci @Fuckthis3 @Fujishiro @gamaran @Gambit @Ganja userr @garciajulieen @Garp the Fist @Garps tekkai @GeneralP123 @Gensui Sazid @Geo @God Buggy @God_Aizen @Gol D. Roger @Gonโ€™s Missing Arm @GrandmasterChef Zonji @Greenbeard @H3llion @HA001 OF THE RAIN @Hades @HAJI @Halyup @Hanners220 @Hanzo hattori @Hedfi @Herasux @Hereforthesalt @HeroesNZ @Hiragaro @hlo69300 @Hurley Pirates @Iaarm @Ice devil slayer @IceWitch @Ichiro Miyata @ImmaIvanoM @Irregular @Ishin @Jackteo @Jaguark101 @Jailer @januarysdaughter @JazzMazz @Jiihad @JJtheman @Johnny B. Decent @Julius @Just a member @JyThony @K!NG HARA$H!MA @Kagurashii @Kai. Do @KaiHiei @Kejon @kenedyfake @KenshiraSonata @Kenshiro11 @Kerkovian @Kiiro @Kiku @Killer#777 @King4nakama @King7 @KINGKONGGUN15 @Kiwipom @kom5 @KonyaruIchi @Koro @kratosล› @krogothwolf @Kromage911 @Krusher1357 @Kucing Pencuri @kumae @Kuro Ashi @Kurozumi D. Trussop @Kurozumi mugiwara44 @Kurozumi Seven7 @Kurozumi Wiwi @Kurozumi Giggio @kurwa @Kyou @LANJI CUCKSMOKE @Law-sama @LayerZ @Lifeismeh @Light D Lamperouge @Lindltaylor @Lion of Olympus @Lizzy @LolonoisZolo @Longleg Larry @Lor D. Coast @Lord_Braggy @Luffy is the mc @m0nst3Rx USER=368]@mad monk[/USER] @Maggi @Malick the last Light @MangoSenpai @Marimo_420 @MarineHQ @Markorus @Mashiro Blue @MasterD @matt245 @Meeyori @Melvin @Midnight Delight @Mighty Action X @milluki @Milou @Missy @mly90 @mmd @Momoheechulkabe9000 @Monarch @Monkey D Theories @MonsterZoro @Mr. Anderson @Mr. Reloaded @mrtsrdr @mugiwalaw @NAMELESS @Nana @Natalija @Necrohol @Nekomamushi @Nibel @Nidai_Kitetsu @nik87 @NikaInParis @NotRanga @NotTommy @nRandle @Oblivion @OnePieceFanGirl @OnePiss @Parker @park_min young @Patryipe @PaulOO @Peenix @Peppercore @Peroroncino @pg13 @Playa4321 @Plex @PuckTheGreat @QQH @qwe @R A I T E I I I @Raiden7 @Ravagerblade @RayanOO @Reborn @Reddot4 @Redhair Le Fishe @ReggieZoldyck21 @Rej @Rivaille @Rottkins @Rukusho @Sade @SakazOuki @Sakazuki-Singh @Sallucion @SDfear @Senfret @Sentinel @Seth @ShadyOjiro @Shanks @SHIHI @ShinichiMugi @ShishioIsBack @Shishi @sidestreetboy @silverfire @Sir Yasheen @SmokedOut @spawn @Thabeast @The White Crane @TheAncientCenturion @TheKnightOfTheSea @thodoris5321 @Tobra @Toph @Topi Jerami @Weeman @Welkin @Yelan @yj @Yo Tan Wa @yorosenpai @Yoru @ZenZu @Zolo @Zoroe @zorojurou @ZoroSlaysDragonTuna @zzShinichi @FloriGlori @Leo @DizzyBrows @uyuu @Ravagerblade @Topi Jerami @Akai2 @EtenBoby @PirateKingDrew @Marimo_420 @Seth @Kucing Pencuri @Dark Hound @Arara @Yukihime @Zoro @zorojurou @Luffy bin Dragon @Senfret @sidestreetboy @PerfectHie @Don DaSlayer @RobertoTheOharaSurvivor @Nibel @Yelan @ConquistadoR @LANJI CUCKSMOKE @SHIHI @Yo Tan Wa @Robin swan @Jorden625 @Monkey D Theories @The White Crane @U c 4 up da idly @Astolfo @MUUGEN @Lax @Queek Hea D Taker @Alpha @ShimonoaZoro971 @mugiwalaw @Konstantis @gamaran @Blackknife @zorojurou @Real94 @Kiwipom @sidestreetboy @hayze moya @djiayebee @Wh1p @Dr_Professor83 @DoctorIndigo @Gladwing0 @Alpha @Adam-san @MonochromeYoru @Zoroe @TheKnightOfTheSea @Shadowlord123 @Seth @Butters @Dark Admiral @notAfanboy @Rottkins @PaulOO @NikaInParis @BangOO๐Ÿ… @NAMELESS @Lhulu @TheAncientCenturion @Natalija @RayanOO @Marimo_420 @Lindltaylor @GrandmasterChef Zonji @Jaguark101 @Luffy is the mc @imacub @mly90 @Koinboin @SHIHI @Kromage911 @hedera__helix @Missy @AL sama @I'mTired @Gol D. Roger @Fujishiro @Udell @NotTommy @Usopp Haoshoku Haki @KINGKONGGUN15 @Doggo @Haoshoku @Ekkologix @Fujishiro @SHIHI @SmokedOut @ConquistadoR @Ekkologix @Zara @Vonal ] @SmokedOut @h_zorothegoat @Adam ๐ŸŽ @Sasparan @Queek Hea D Taker @Fugikage Zoro @Fujishiro @Underworld Broker @Liquidhate @matt245 @Zara @Black_Leg_Wanji @LANJI CUCKSMOKE @Kagurashii @Yelan @Fujishiro @Rottkins @Law @Sasparan @BornInAbyss @Nibel @Cross_Marian @MonochromeYoru @park_min young @LANJI CUCKSMOKE @wordy @Tobra @Kurozumi Seven7 @Emmazrine @CarrotForNakama @Yelan @Cross_Marian @Meeyori @Rottkins @OnePiss @RayanOO @Doggo @Fujishiro @BornInAbyss @AL sama @Marimo_420 @Kagurashii @Jaguark101 @Lindltaylor @Nibel @AverageNamiEnjoyer @Don Diego @park_min young @Hanners220 @SmokedOut @Udell @ConquistadoR @Rรฉmi @NikaInParis @BornInAbyss @Don Diego @MonochromeYoru @Jaguark101 @Kagurashii @AverageNamiEnjoyer@GrandmasterChef Zonji @Shimotsuki Ghostly @AverageNamiEnjoyer @Cross_Marian @Yelan @Nibel @MonochromeYoru Clowns[/USER] @Jaguark101 @KINGKONGGUN15 @wordy @Nibel @Tobra @Vonal @ShiShiShi @Gehrman @Vanellope Lhea @MonochromeYoru @Udell @GrandmasterChef Zonji @Kurozumi Seven7 @Mashiro Blue @Warchief Sanji D Goat @Monarch @Natalija @Flower @Lindltaylor @Junatic @Lhulu @Dr_Professor83 @Maschenny @Nibel
 
#13
@Lord Evil there are many reasons Zuko's development is top tier, I'll just list a few:

- It's a slow burn. From episode 1, we immediately know Zuko's goals and motivations for those goals. And ever so slightly, those change over the course of the story until before you know it, his arc is complete. It's hard to pinpoint just one big moment of change for Zuko, because it was so organic and gradual.

- It's realistic. He didn't just come to the realisation on his own, he had pretty much the best teacher you could ask for in Uncle Iroh. Couple that with the displays of kindness from Team Avatar and the truly twisted nature of his sister and father l, then it's only natural he switched sides.

- He made mistakes. Even people that want to change can slip up from time to time, and Zuko is no exception. How bizarre it would be if he suddenly knew the right thing to do, but no, at the end if Book 2 he turns on his Uncle and spends most of Book 3 regretting that decision. Zuko's internal struggles from the choices he makes are just as important to his arc as the choices themselves.

I can carry on if you like, but maybe you can share some of Fat Tony's development with us for comparison.
 

Jaguark101

"Dreams are Messages from the Deep"
โ€Žโ€Ž
#15
@Usopp Haoshoku Haki @The White Crane @Fujishiro @Yelan @Jaguark101 @Kerkovian @matt245 @NikaInParis @DoflaMihawk @Doggo @Devilbat
Can you dudes explain me why Zuko have a better Development than Tony Soprano Or did they just vote for popularity and favoritism?
You know why I voted zuko? The person who submitted him actually took the time to write up about his development and you can tell they were passionate about it, Unlike the person who just submitted a link to an article about Tony.
 

GUI VI

Touch The Grass
โ€Ž
#16
@DoflaMihawk @Jaguark101 first of all is not Fat Tony,but anyway:

-first of all there is no definite Tony Soprano, there are several Tony Sopranos that went through different writers, let me list some of them:

-Tony starts out as a Mafia capo, he is not the boss but he is treated like a Boss because he is a born leader, but he fails in basic things like dealing with his family.

-In the first episode Tony starts having anxiety attacks after seeing a family of ducks leaving, this symbolizes Tony's fear of losing his family.

- Tony's main obstacle in the first season is not the Mafia bosses but his mother. Tony's mother was a sick and narcissistic woman who hated her son and even tried to kill him, this reflects on Tony's relationship with his son and his wife, because the way Tony's wife treats his son is the same treatment that Tony wanted his mother to have with him.

-His son becomes a depressive who tries to commit suicide and is admitted to a rehab.

-Tony's nephew is an addict who hates Tony and makes a movie that simulates his revenge on his uncle.

- Tony is jealous of his sister because she was able to overcome her past trauma and he was not.

- All of his friends are nothing but sycophants.

-Tony despite loving his wife, has sex with several women and has several crazy lovers who blackmail him by committing suicide.

- Tony almost dies and has a dream that is practically an allusion to death.


โ€ขWe're not talking here about a fucking children's anime, we're talking about a series that addresses real everyday topics like: anxiety, depression, drugs, family, redemption, among others.
 
#17
@Lord Evil All I'm seeing there is a bunch of bad things that happen to Tony, not how it changes him or makes him grow as a character. And if you're dismissing Zuko just because of the medium he's in, then you've already lost. It's just as capable of dealing with themes like anxiety and redemption as any TV drama.
 

GUI VI

Touch The Grass
โ€Ž
#18
@Lord Evil All I'm seeing there is a bunch of bad things that happen to Tony, not how it changes him or makes him grow as a character. And if you're dismissing Zuko just because of the medium he's in, then you've already lost. It's just as capable of dealing with themes like anxiety and redemption as any TV drama.
What??? Lmao, in season 5, Tony gets shot and almost dies, after he recovers, he tells his sister that he is now a change, and this happens for a few moments, but then, it doesn't go away of a lie, because Tony is what he is. Tony is a mobster and a family man, that's at the core of him.

I don't know if you know but sometimes character development doesn't just mean an evil character becoming good or a good character becoming evil. Character development is to show your internal conflicts, your dilemmas, your complexity and above all how it is told.
 

Tyrant MUUGEN

ๅ‘ชใฎใ‚ใ„ใฎ็Ž‹ใŠใ†
โ€Ž
#19
Zuko beating Tony, this forum funny asf. You have kids screaming that Naruto is the greatest manga to exist and people believing Zuko is a better developed character.

there is a reason why The Sopranos is highly regarded as the greatest show of all time and itโ€™s directly tied to Tony.

oh well. seems the avatar hype from doggo carried over
 
Top