Chapter Discussion Chap 1149: A Lot of Talking Points

#1
Great chapter, with lots of interesting things to discuss. (Great W for Sanji fans).
  1. Imu can possess a HK or is it just Gunko who is special/different compared to others. I think she is different, a modified version, probably a cyborg (the eye) and her age does not match her looks. Brook is 90 years old, he became a pirate at least 52 years ago. We see Gunko as a kid with Brook before he became a pirate. So Gunko should at least be 52+ (nearer to 56 imo) in current age. Secondly it also confirms that she is not from a CD family but a noble/royal family of a kingdom. Was she first recruited and then experimented on or was she just blackmailed like Kuma. Her mannerisms/behavior also dont match those of a 50+ old woman but are more like a teenage girl. She is like a girl suspended in time (not growing old). People making TB parallels might make more theories about Gunko and Cindry (the dead girl/love interest of Dr. Hogback, I dont remember the exact shit).
  2. The regen has been stopped but they are still immortal (like Hidan in Naruto). Idk how Oda will incorporate other fighting styles to make them effective since only slashing or blasting should work. The body cannot grow, cannot be reattached (unlike Amputate victims) but it doesnt stop them from living. From the looks of it I think Chopper will save Gaban from the fall but Gaban will take some time to recover and reveal the secret and until then the tension will build up. At least thats how I see this, the hostage situation was pure narrative based and the feat/anti-feat is not applicable when compared to dissimilar situations.
  3. Why has Gaban only been shown to use one axe in Elbaf, I thought he was a dual axe wielder? Am I missing something or did Oda change the design.
  4. Gaban looks pretty young in the flashback when Colon is born, Colon is 20 years old, which means that Gaban is at max 59-60 range. Kaido was 59, I think Kizaru is 58. Seems like the old age dip comes at 70. Would you consider the flashback Gaban as Prime Gaban if we consider Kaido and Kizaru to be in their primes?
POWER-SCALING PARTS
  1. Gaban has ACoC, the panels against Sommers were inconclusive but the FS panel clearly had visual and sfx indication of ACoC (not good for those who push Aokiji/Coby showing ACoC). And I dont think Gaban even used strong ACoC against Sommers which is probably the reason why we didnt get any CoC confirmation dialogue from any of the SHPs. Oda is probably hiding it right now until Gaban actually reveals the secret (embarrassing but Oda does this). Also why is the axe or Gabans hand not showing black hardening?
  2. Roger pirates were stacked, at least 3 ACoC users (1 with confirmed ID and 1 with confirmed FS, is this how Oda will develop Zoro and Sanji too?). I just dont see how other crews could actually compete with them, we have seen ACoC users being so much more powerful compared to others. Rocks was probably the only real challenge they ever got. Oda just giving narrative shit like bring Garp or Sengoku next time. Man who the fuck is gonna stand up against Roger, Ray and Gaban.
  3. Roger did what others could not do, we saw how Rocks failed to keep the crew in check, how Kaido said that too many conquerors in the same crew are not good/workable (although he was beating everyone up and making them join like Luffy, Kid, Zoro). We saw WB not even accepting Rocks as someone above himself. But Roger had 2 ACoC users for most of his journey and 3 ACoC users (Ray, Oden, Gaban) under him. The Roger pirates that reached LT are the strongest crew to have existed.
  4. Shanks is the mid gen Roger, Luffy has the goal of surpassing Shanks and assembling a stronger crew. If the parallels are taken then does this mean that we should also expect Benn and Roux to also have ACoC or be equally powerful to Ray and Gaban?
  5. It is said that nobody from Roger pirates could copy Kamusari but teen Shanks did, we excluded Ray before since it didnt make sense as he has shown ACoC and ID CoA so copying Kamusaria technique should not be difficult for him. But now we have also seen Gaban show ACoC and use it with his axe so Odas statement in the SBS looks just Shanks hype BS.
  6. How strong Loki actually is? We know nobody was able to stop him until Shanks, not in Elbaf, not elsewhere, he was a rampaging beast. Consider that giants have 3 times the lifespan hence Colon who is 20 years old but still a child is like 7 years old in human terms. Loki is currently 63 years old meaning he is 21 in human terms. 20 years ago when Colon was born Loki would be 43 years old or in human terms around 14 years old. This creates a problem. Gaban has been shown to care for Elbaf and act like a guardian (he even tested Luffy for the key to Loki) so him not trying to stop Lokis rampages does not make sense. If we take Kizaru and Kaido being in prime around 58-59 years age then Gaban should also be in his prime when Colon was born. Its really hard to accept that Prime Gaban could not stop a 14 year old Loki. Also Loki only got the DF 14 years ago (around 16 years age in human terms) and was captured by Shanks 6 years ago (19 years of age in human terms). From this it seems that Gaban never actually tried or stepped in when Loki was involved, it was an internal matter and like Hajrudins mother, Gaban was still an outsider.
  7. Namis dialogue seems weird, on panel the moment Luffy and Zoro got serious Gaban surrendered so where does them getting overwhelmed part coming from? Was it because of the countless slashes attack?
  8. Big W for Sanji fans, Oda established a parallel with the love thing and Luffys remark first and then hyped Gaban. Previously there was no top tier benchmark for Sanji to surpass (we had Ivankov because of mentor thing and also Scopper but until this chap, Scopper was difficult to see as a true top tier). I can see EOS Sanji fighting and beating an Admiral/Gorosei now. After Wano it was an open ended thing about his ceiling, EH was such a letdown (specially when he was paired with Bonney and Franky an using his strongest attack and only getting an ouch from Luffy). The real question is how will Oda handle Sanji going from his EH performance to a certified top tier? Will Oda give him ACoC or something else?
 

MonsterZoro

Bald Spoiler Provider
#3
he overwhelmed them to the point they had to go all out and 1v2 him shes not wrong she didn't say he beat them

he was beating luffy's ass even if he wasn't trying to hurt them and he made zoro jump in and made zoro scared of gaban

if thats not overwhelmed then what is

zoro wasn't even scared of kaido or big mom
 
#4
I’d like to think Gunko is special (she already had the weird eye thing going on) especially since she’s the only non-CD Holy Knight that we know of

Why/How she joined them is still a complete mystery. All we know is she did it at a fairly young age since she still looks like she could be in her early 20’s

Sommers surviving pretty much confirms to me that you can’t truly kill a Holy Knight/Gorosei until Imu dies. Whoever fights them will likely incapacitate them and they’ll finally wither away when Luffy defeats Imu (the source of their power)

The Gaban part is interesting to me too. We’re shown time and time again that he uses 2 axes (in God Valley, when he fought the WBP, when he fought Luffy and Zoro, in his concept art, etc) yet against Sommers and Gunko he only used 1?

Zoro fans are probably familiar with this as well. Oda will randomly have Zoro go from 3 sword to 2 swords and back to 3 swords again in the middle of a fight

I think it’s Oda just randomly changing stuff tbh

As for Sanji finally hitting top tier I think this chapter pretty much confirmed that Sanji’s going to unlock CoC/ACoC at some point. I think most people know that Sanji’s final power up will more than likely be black flames to pair with his epithet “Black Leg”

Diable Jambe = a unique ability that he unlocked during Enies Lobby that he had to create friction to use, later able to use it on command due to increased mastery

Ifrit Jambe = combination of exoskeleton + armament haki allowed him to push his flames to a new level

??? Jambe (black flames) = exoskeleton + armament haki + conqueror’s haki allowing Sanji to push his flames to their peak

Gaban also has future sight so he’ll probably unlock that along the way too
 
#5
I’d like to think Gunko is special (she already had the weird eye thing going on) especially since she’s the only non-CD Holy Knight that we know of

Why/How she joined them is still a complete mystery. All we know is she did it at a fairly young age since she still looks like she could be in her early 20’s

Sommers surviving pretty much confirms to me that you can’t truly kill a Holy Knight/Gorosei until Imu dies. Whoever fights them will likely incapacitate them and they’ll finally wither away when Luffy defeats Imu (the source of their power)

The Gaban part is interesting to me too. We’re shown time and time again that he uses 2 axes (in God Valley, when he fought the WBP, when he fought Luffy and Zoro, in his concept art, etc) yet against Sommers and Gunko he only used 1?

Zoro fans are probably familiar with this as well. Oda will randomly have Zoro go from 3 sword to 2 swords and back to 3 swords again in the middle of a fight

I think it’s Oda just randomly changing stuff tbh

As for Sanji finally hitting top tier I think this chapter pretty much confirmed that Sanji’s going to unlock CoC/ACoC at some point. I think most people know that Sanji’s final power up will more than likely be black flames to pair with his epithet “Black Leg”

Diable Jambe = a unique ability that he unlocked during Enies Lobby that he had to create friction to use, later able to use it on command due to increased mastery

Ifrit Jambe = combination of exoskeleton + armament haki allowed him to push his flames to a new level

??? Jambe (black flames) = exoskeleton + armament haki + conqueror’s haki allowing Sanji to push his flames to their peak

Gaban also has future sight so he’ll probably unlock that along the way too
Lucifer jambe
 
#8
Gunko will probably get redeemed, then play a role in either helping the SHs escape Elbaf while it’s burning down or figuring out Marejois and the secret behind Imu

If so I can actually see Shamrock coming back to recapture her. He probably knows about her memory loss and doesn’t want to lose a valuable asset like her

Can’t believe this turned out to be Brook’s personal arc rather than Usopo’s lmfao
 
#9
i think if Oda wants to be creative he should give Sanji another skill tree but I truly believe he is going to be lazy because he is struggling to end the story and doesn’t need anymore bloat so he’ll just give Sanji ACoC and have him unlock a new Jambe mode.
I do hope that Oda goes a different route with Sanji. Develop his fire/exo abilities, and give him an observation haki ability that is more unique to him.

While characters themselves are parallels in some ways, the fighting style isn't. Roger is a swordsman, and Gaban uses Axe - both different from Luffy/Sanji, and all three have fighting styles same or close to Zoro.

Gaban (probably) is just a "regular" human like Roger/Ray/Zoro/Shanks etc.
For him to be top tier without a DF, I think advanced conqueror's is required. I think Gaban does have advanced conqueror's, but I'll wait for it to be confirmed verbatim, since Loda has ruined the ability to recognize it based on visuals.

While Sanji effectively has a DF equivalent with him, that keeps growing. By the time Sanji's powers are fully developed, it would be like he has a mythical zoan DF. High armament/observation + a top tier DF can make you a top tier, as we see with most admirals. Sanji doesn't need advanced conqueror's to become a top tier.
 
#11
I do hope that Oda goes a different route with Sanji. Develop his fire/exo abilities, and give him an observation haki ability that is more unique to him.

While characters themselves are parallels in some ways, the fighting style isn't. Roger is a swordsman, and Gaban uses Axe - both different from Luffy/Sanji, and all three have fighting styles same or close to Zoro.

Gaban (probably) is just a "regular" human like Roger/Ray/Zoro/Shanks etc.
For him to be top tier without a DF, I think advanced conqueror's is required. I think Gaban does have advanced conqueror's, but I'll wait for it to be confirmed verbatim, since Loda has ruined the ability to recognize it based on visuals.

While Sanji effectively has a DF equivalent with him, that keeps growing. By the time Sanji's powers are fully developed, it would be like he has a mythical zoan DF. High armament/observation + a top tier DF can make you a top tier, as we see with most admirals. Sanji doesn't need advanced conqueror's to become a top tier.
I think so too, in the other thread I also pointed out that Sanji getting the same powerup two arcs later than Luffy and Zoro will be bad for M3 dynamic and portrayal. When haki was needed all 3 got it at the same time in TS. Imagine Sanji getting CoA and CoO in DR while Luffy and Zoro already had it in SA/FMI. Even when Oda gave a haki PU that was focused (not off screen) he gave a special CoO one to Usopp in DR. And the difference between Usopp and the M3 is huge.
 
Top