CHAPTER 1159: "THE ISLAND OF DESTINY"
- Thread starter The DevilMaster
- Start date
I’m not exaggerating lol, the story literally draws attention to how wild it is that Rocks brutalised Loki with a kid through Whitebeard criticising him. And then we see that Harald is oblivious as to how he obtained his injuries.
Do you think Harald would have been so friendly with him if he knew what Rocks had did to Loki?
Wrecking the Gates of Justice is not a strength feat, I don’t know why you think that helps your argument.
What it does is show the audacity of Rocks, that he‘s going up against the World Gov directly and attacking them in a way that no one else had done. Same for murdering an Admiral.
But that works just as well if Rocks murdered an Admiral in cold blood, mot im a fight. It’s still showing that he’s doing unheard of deeds. And even if he did murder the Admiral in less than honourable circumstances, it doesn’t mean he’s not strong.
What’s tiresome is people getting so distracted by the shiny new character and hyped up by powerscaling that they refuse to actually consider him as a character.
Whitebeard's‘s literally said he had a ton of bad experiences with the Rocks Pirates and you think he thought they were family?
They were trying to kill each other mid mission lmao.
Why exactly do you think that Whitebeard thinking that the Marines were tipped off equates to him caring about the crew? Where is the connection?
Whitebeard went to sea to get money for Sphinx. Money that it’s pretty explicit, was obtained in less than legit ways.
So that’s one thing, he’s not a hero.
He is, however, very prideful. There’s a whole big thing in the series about having pride as a pirate and as a man. Hiriluk’s flag, no wounds on the back, never harming a crewmate etc. The original Davy Back fight goes into this, with Zoro telling Chopper to man the fuck up when he starts crying about joining Foxy’s crew.
So yes, Whitebeard joining Rocks by Davy Back fight will mean he’ll stick with them even though he doesn’t like them. With Rocks he’s getting a shit ton of cash for Sphinx, so that’s the main goal. He’s also too proud to have people say “Whitebeard lost a Davy Back and ran away.”
As for the idea that it was only at God’s Valley that the scales dropped from Whitebeard’s eyes after and he suddenly realised that the rest of the crew were not loveable rogues, that’s just laughable. What, he sailed for years and he somehow never managed to notice what they were like?
Sengoku told us way back when Rocks was first properly explained what they were. They were a crew that never really liked each other and fought among themselves. Whitebeard said he had bad experiences with the crew. We then see the crew, and they don’t especially get on with each other, and Rocks only got them to join with Davy Back fights.
But now we’re meant to ignore all that we have seen and read and think they were all bosom buddies that Whitebeard thought of as family?
You guys are so desperate to turn Rocks into a hero that you’re missing everything that’s actually interesting about him and his crew lmao.
Do you think Harald would have been so friendly with him if he knew what Rocks had did to Loki?
Wrecking the Gates of Justice is not a strength feat, I don’t know why you think that helps your argument.
What it does is show the audacity of Rocks, that he‘s going up against the World Gov directly and attacking them in a way that no one else had done. Same for murdering an Admiral.
But that works just as well if Rocks murdered an Admiral in cold blood, mot im a fight. It’s still showing that he’s doing unheard of deeds. And even if he did murder the Admiral in less than honourable circumstances, it doesn’t mean he’s not strong.
What’s tiresome is people getting so distracted by the shiny new character and hyped up by powerscaling that they refuse to actually consider him as a character.
Whitebeard's‘s literally said he had a ton of bad experiences with the Rocks Pirates and you think he thought they were family?
They were trying to kill each other mid mission lmao.
Why exactly do you think that Whitebeard thinking that the Marines were tipped off equates to him caring about the crew? Where is the connection?
Whitebeard went to sea to get money for Sphinx. Money that it’s pretty explicit, was obtained in less than legit ways.
So that’s one thing, he’s not a hero.
He is, however, very prideful. There’s a whole big thing in the series about having pride as a pirate and as a man. Hiriluk’s flag, no wounds on the back, never harming a crewmate etc. The original Davy Back fight goes into this, with Zoro telling Chopper to man the fuck up when he starts crying about joining Foxy’s crew.
So yes, Whitebeard joining Rocks by Davy Back fight will mean he’ll stick with them even though he doesn’t like them. With Rocks he’s getting a shit ton of cash for Sphinx, so that’s the main goal. He’s also too proud to have people say “Whitebeard lost a Davy Back and ran away.”
As for the idea that it was only at God’s Valley that the scales dropped from Whitebeard’s eyes after and he suddenly realised that the rest of the crew were not loveable rogues, that’s just laughable. What, he sailed for years and he somehow never managed to notice what they were like?
Sengoku told us way back when Rocks was first properly explained what they were. They were a crew that never really liked each other and fought among themselves. Whitebeard said he had bad experiences with the crew. We then see the crew, and they don’t especially get on with each other, and Rocks only got them to join with Davy Back fights.
But now we’re meant to ignore all that we have seen and read and think they were all bosom buddies that Whitebeard thought of as family?
You guys are so desperate to turn Rocks into a hero that you’re missing everything that’s actually interesting about him and his crew lmao.
You are also wrong about Xebec. He has never relied on cheap tricks in a fight or even in recruitment. Everything he does is about proving strength and flexing, he beats you clean in a Davy Back. He tears down a Gate of Justice which is larger than islands, and you still claim that is not a strength feat lol. Killing an admiral was a pure hypetool moment. He did not use hostages beyond trying to extort Imu unless stated outright. Oda is clearly hyping his strength, yet you twist it for the sake of an argument. Again, this is exhausting atp.
You are also making Whitebeard one dimensional. Just because he said he had bad experiences does not mean he felt nothing for the crew especially the OG core whom he travelled with for more than a decade. His conversations with them and the way he followed Xebec’s orders show the opposite. Xebec has not done anything especially evil outside of the usual pirate plundering. They even “sacked” a town full of corrupt schemers lmfaoo. Oda also deliberately contrasted how honorable and honest Xebec is compared to the bog standard World Government agent while narrating “Rocks’ crimes.”
Overall, Xebec is honorable. He never even forced Harald to join and even kicked Kaido in the face for suggesting otherwise. Up to now, Oda has only shown how upfront Xebec is with everything. He shares more in common with Roger and even Whitebeard than he differs from them. This chapter even paralleled Roger’s talk with Garp (about saving his own kin) through the exchange between Xebec and Harald.
Plus, do you really think that Whitebeard was a hypocrite? He took part in all those same crimes and was probably the one sinking islands in the first place lmfao. Nothing Xebec has done so far heavily clashes with Whitebeard’s morals, which makes it clear that the breaking point is being saved for God’s Valley. Or there might not even be one. Whitebeard could just watch Xebec fall and the crew dissolves naturally without him.
What a sight for sore eyes!
Soooooo good to see your name pop up again! How have you been?
Soooooo good to see your name pop up again! How have you been?
How are you? I'm good, just slightly scatterbrained (see above) trying to get my air conditioner repaired. Will it be $1600 or $16k? Very exciting times in middle age life.
Nice to see so many familiar faces still here! How do you like the flashback? I don't like it but I can't look away
Roger’s answer was that he would crush them all. It was a battle on the high seas, so a storm broke out, but it never shows Roger running away in any way—it was simply something beyond his control.
Anyway:
Kaidou, Whitebeard, and Big Mom are the three strongest among the Rocks Pirates. I can even see Whitebeard and Big Mom being stronger than Kaidou, but only until Kaidou got a Devil Fruit. After that, Kaidou surpassed both of them.
But it’s just insane that at 21 years old Kaidou was already close to Big Mom and Prime Whitebeard in power, being considered the third strongest—and that’s at 21 years old and without a Devil Fruit. The Devil Fruit and age truly made him superior to all the others.
Shiki is out of the picture with his new rival. LOL
Anyway:
Kaidou, Whitebeard, and Big Mom are the three strongest among the Rocks Pirates. I can even see Whitebeard and Big Mom being stronger than Kaidou, but only until Kaidou got a Devil Fruit. After that, Kaidou surpassed both of them.
But it’s just insane that at 21 years old Kaidou was already close to Big Mom and Prime Whitebeard in power, being considered the third strongest—and that’s at 21 years old and without a Devil Fruit. The Devil Fruit and age truly made him superior to all the others.
Shiki is out of the picture with his new rival. LOL
Dwells on it enough to show it happen twice as the main interactions between the two, but we’ve to pretend it didn’t happen and that Rocks is a cuddly hero?
Alright then.
Clearly is, given one was comedic training complete with the cartoon lump, and the other was a vicious beating for no cause that left Loki in a heap.
But again, we must pretend Rocks was a cuddly hero.
I think it’s worse because Oda made it clear that taking a blade to a kid is obviously wrong.
Something I would like to think that readers could find obvious for themselves, but, well…
”The child is tough, so he’ll get over being left in a crumpled bloody heap.”
Jeezo.
You don‘t actually know any of this.
We‘ve see a Davy Back fight, and there was cheating throughout it. They’re pirates, they are meant to cheat. Why would Rocks’s be any different? Because he’s oh so noble? The man’s a pirate. Of course he’s going to cheat.
Like, you know he betrayed the government to get Pirate Island, right?
It’s not, it’s like Kaido lifting an island. I thought we’d all moved on from being impressed by DC rather than fights.
And it’s not portrayed as a hypetool, because it’s offpanelled. That puts a stink of doubt over the entire thing. The clash with Harald is hype, the killing of the Admiral, we still need to see about that.
It might be pure hype, if indeed Rocks has just destroyed an Admiral in a straight fight. But he’s just as likely not to have done.
“Yes, he’s used underhanded tactics like hostages before, but why would you think he would do it again?”
Lol.
Where have I said he’s not strong? The argument is over his personality and the loyalty his crew, specifically Whitebeard, has for him. Not his strength. Whether he killed the Admiral clean or not, whether he plays dirty or not he’s obviously one of the strongest characters we have seen.
What’s making him one dimensional is this bonkers idea that the Rocks Pirates all really care for each other and just like any other crew.
A crew that pretty much despise each other, don’t work together, don’t even like their captain, and are all only in it for their own reasons is actually unique in One Piece. Your sanitised cuddly buddy version? Not interesting in the slightest.
He’s barely spoken in this flashback, where are you getting this idea that he’s showing this undying loyalty to them all?
When the actual fuck was Rocks portrayed as honourable and honest, man?
Like, you can barely go a sentence without “the honourable Rocks, the noble Rocks”, you sound like a medieval courtier.
In the actual series his best friend relentlessly calls him a villain lmao. Sure, he‘s robbed some bad people. But do you really think every one of his multitude of crimes has been so peachy?
What says he has the capability of forcing Harald to do anything? Also, whatever his plan, he needs Harald for it. It puts a slighlty odd cast on their friendship.
Apart from the occasional child beating, hostage taking and betrayal, sure.
Uh, yes, absolutely? Of course Whitebeard is a hypocrite. If you are talking about how he is causing misery to islands despite what happened to his own, absolutely. That was a point in Marineford, people are terrifed of him and what his powers do. Whitebeard‘s earthquakes must have killed hundreds of people’s children in his time. That’s what Marco and Neko‘s conversation was about, it’s a dirty world, and Whitebeard did what he could in it for his own people. He wasn’t some sort of saint, and certsinly Rocks wasn’t either.
You seem to have this bizarre fixation on the Rocks Pirates being this morally upstanding crew that all loved each other, and that’s absolutely terrible that they betrayed their brave and noble captain.
The reality is far more imteresting and that’s why the Rocks Pirates are actually interesting. They aren’t just a Strawhats redux.
Alright then.
Clearly is, given one was comedic training complete with the cartoon lump, and the other was a vicious beating for no cause that left Loki in a heap.
But again, we must pretend Rocks was a cuddly hero.
I think it’s worse because Oda made it clear that taking a blade to a kid is obviously wrong.
Something I would like to think that readers could find obvious for themselves, but, well…
”The child is tough, so he’ll get over being left in a crumpled bloody heap.”
Jeezo.
You don‘t actually know any of this.
We‘ve see a Davy Back fight, and there was cheating throughout it. They’re pirates, they are meant to cheat. Why would Rocks’s be any different? Because he’s oh so noble? The man’s a pirate. Of course he’s going to cheat.
Like, you know he betrayed the government to get Pirate Island, right?
It’s not, it’s like Kaido lifting an island. I thought we’d all moved on from being impressed by DC rather than fights.
And it’s not portrayed as a hypetool, because it’s offpanelled. That puts a stink of doubt over the entire thing. The clash with Harald is hype, the killing of the Admiral, we still need to see about that.
It might be pure hype, if indeed Rocks has just destroyed an Admiral in a straight fight. But he’s just as likely not to have done.
“Yes, he’s used underhanded tactics like hostages before, but why would you think he would do it again?”
Lol.
Where have I said he’s not strong? The argument is over his personality and the loyalty his crew, specifically Whitebeard, has for him. Not his strength. Whether he killed the Admiral clean or not, whether he plays dirty or not he’s obviously one of the strongest characters we have seen.
What’s making him one dimensional is this bonkers idea that the Rocks Pirates all really care for each other and just like any other crew.
A crew that pretty much despise each other, don’t work together, don’t even like their captain, and are all only in it for their own reasons is actually unique in One Piece. Your sanitised cuddly buddy version? Not interesting in the slightest.
He’s barely spoken in this flashback, where are you getting this idea that he’s showing this undying loyalty to them all?
When the actual fuck was Rocks portrayed as honourable and honest, man?
Like, you can barely go a sentence without “the honourable Rocks, the noble Rocks”, you sound like a medieval courtier.
In the actual series his best friend relentlessly calls him a villain lmao. Sure, he‘s robbed some bad people. But do you really think every one of his multitude of crimes has been so peachy?
What says he has the capability of forcing Harald to do anything? Also, whatever his plan, he needs Harald for it. It puts a slighlty odd cast on their friendship.
Apart from the occasional child beating, hostage taking and betrayal, sure.
Uh, yes, absolutely? Of course Whitebeard is a hypocrite. If you are talking about how he is causing misery to islands despite what happened to his own, absolutely. That was a point in Marineford, people are terrifed of him and what his powers do. Whitebeard‘s earthquakes must have killed hundreds of people’s children in his time. That’s what Marco and Neko‘s conversation was about, it’s a dirty world, and Whitebeard did what he could in it for his own people. He wasn’t some sort of saint, and certsinly Rocks wasn’t either.
You seem to have this bizarre fixation on the Rocks Pirates being this morally upstanding crew that all loved each other, and that’s absolutely terrible that they betrayed their brave and noble captain.
The reality is far more imteresting and that’s why the Rocks Pirates are actually interesting. They aren’t just a Strawhats redux.
What's up?!
How are you? I'm good, just slightly scatterbrained (see above) trying to get my air conditioner repaired. Will it be $1600 or $16k? Very exciting times in middle age life.
Nice to see so many familiar faces still here! How do you like the flashback? I don't like it but I can't look away
How are you? I'm good, just slightly scatterbrained (see above) trying to get my air conditioner repaired. Will it be $1600 or $16k? Very exciting times in middle age life.
Nice to see so many familiar faces still here! How do you like the flashback? I don't like it but I can't look away
Hope you end up with the cheaper option, dude lol and hope to see you around more
Oda could've drawn the Kuja ships racing to GV to save their queen but he only drew the horndogs. Like that's the only motivation anyone had to save her 
It's probably the biggest letdown for me in this flashback.
They are honestly quite toxic, already been so in Amazon Lily arc.
Ditch the air conditioning and use wet towels instead. Or build a Mesopotamian wind tower in your backyard. Will save you a ton of $$$ in the long run.
Last edited:
I’m not exaggerating lol, the story literally draws attention to how wild it is that Rocks brutalised Loki with a kid through Whitebeard criticising him. And then we see that Harald is oblivious as to how he obtained his injuries.
Do you think Harald would have been so friendly with him if he knew what Rocks had did to Loki?
Wrecking the Gates of Justice is not a strength feat, I don’t know why you think that helps your argument.
What it does is show the audacity of Rocks, that he‘s going up against the World Gov directly and attacking them in a way that no one else had done. Same for murdering an Admiral.
But that works just as well if Rocks murdered an Admiral in cold blood, mot im a fight. It’s still showing that he’s doing unheard of deeds. And even if he did murder the Admiral in less than honourable circumstances, it doesn’t mean he’s not strong.
What’s tiresome is people getting so distracted by the shiny new character and hyped up by powerscaling that they refuse to actually consider him as a character.
Whitebeard's‘s literally said he had a ton of bad experiences with the Rocks Pirates and you think he thought they were family?
They were trying to kill each other mid mission lmao.
Why exactly do you think that Whitebeard thinking that the Marines were tipped off equates to him caring about the crew? Where is the connection?
Whitebeard went to sea to get money for Sphinx. Money that it’s pretty explicit, was obtained in less than legit ways.
So that’s one thing, he’s not a hero.
He is, however, very prideful. There’s a whole big thing in the series about having pride as a pirate and as a man. Hiriluk’s flag, no wounds on the back, never harming a crewmate etc. The original Davy Back fight goes into this, with Zoro telling Chopper to man the fuck up when he starts crying about joining Foxy’s crew.
So yes, Whitebeard joining Rocks by Davy Back fight will mean he’ll stick with them even though he doesn’t like them. With Rocks he’s getting a shit ton of cash for Sphinx, so that’s the main goal. He’s also too proud to have people say “Whitebeard lost a Davy Back and ran away.”
As for the idea that it was only at God’s Valley that the scales dropped from Whitebeard’s eyes after and he suddenly realised that the rest of the crew were not loveable rogues, that’s just laughable. What, he sailed for years and he somehow never managed to notice what they were like?
Sengoku told us way back when Rocks was first properly explained what they were. They were a crew that never really liked each other and fought among themselves. Whitebeard said he had bad experiences with the crew. We then see the crew, and they don’t especially get on with each other, and Rocks only got them to join with Davy Back fights.
But now we’re meant to ignore all that we have seen and read and think they were all bosom buddies that Whitebeard thought of as family?
You guys are so desperate to turn Rocks into a hero that you’re missing everything that’s actually interesting about him and his crew lmao.
Do you think Harald would have been so friendly with him if he knew what Rocks had did to Loki?
Wrecking the Gates of Justice is not a strength feat, I don’t know why you think that helps your argument.
What it does is show the audacity of Rocks, that he‘s going up against the World Gov directly and attacking them in a way that no one else had done. Same for murdering an Admiral.
But that works just as well if Rocks murdered an Admiral in cold blood, mot im a fight. It’s still showing that he’s doing unheard of deeds. And even if he did murder the Admiral in less than honourable circumstances, it doesn’t mean he’s not strong.
What’s tiresome is people getting so distracted by the shiny new character and hyped up by powerscaling that they refuse to actually consider him as a character.
Whitebeard's‘s literally said he had a ton of bad experiences with the Rocks Pirates and you think he thought they were family?
They were trying to kill each other mid mission lmao.
Why exactly do you think that Whitebeard thinking that the Marines were tipped off equates to him caring about the crew? Where is the connection?
Whitebeard went to sea to get money for Sphinx. Money that it’s pretty explicit, was obtained in less than legit ways.
So that’s one thing, he’s not a hero.
He is, however, very prideful. There’s a whole big thing in the series about having pride as a pirate and as a man. Hiriluk’s flag, no wounds on the back, never harming a crewmate etc. The original Davy Back fight goes into this, with Zoro telling Chopper to man the fuck up when he starts crying about joining Foxy’s crew.
So yes, Whitebeard joining Rocks by Davy Back fight will mean he’ll stick with them even though he doesn’t like them. With Rocks he’s getting a shit ton of cash for Sphinx, so that’s the main goal. He’s also too proud to have people say “Whitebeard lost a Davy Back and ran away.”
As for the idea that it was only at God’s Valley that the scales dropped from Whitebeard’s eyes after and he suddenly realised that the rest of the crew were not loveable rogues, that’s just laughable. What, he sailed for years and he somehow never managed to notice what they were like?
Sengoku told us way back when Rocks was first properly explained what they were. They were a crew that never really liked each other and fought among themselves. Whitebeard said he had bad experiences with the crew. We then see the crew, and they don’t especially get on with each other, and Rocks only got them to join with Davy Back fights.
But now we’re meant to ignore all that we have seen and read and think they were all bosom buddies that Whitebeard thought of as family?
You guys are so desperate to turn Rocks into a hero that you’re missing everything that’s actually interesting about him and his crew lmao.
And what happened instead? Years passed during the flashback, and a large portion of the chapters’ content was filled with every pirate in the world, led by Roger, drooling over Shakky, while we saw nothing of Rocks’ world-conquering plans. What were the two Devil Fruits he wanted to acquire? Why did he need the frozen ancient giants? And I no longer believe we’ll suddenly get answers to these questions, since here we are at God Valley
The truth is, in his ambitions, Rocks wasn’t any different from the World Government. The way he attacked the Holy Land, killed an admiral, stabbed the child Loki with a sword, and that’s not even mentioning the islands and nations he burned to the ground. What comes to mind for me is a cold-blooded, megalomaniacal terrorist leader, not a hero. Yet Oda took his character in a direction where you end up rooting for him, because you know what’s worse than a terrorist pirate? The Celestial Dragons. Those Celestial Dragons are so evil that Oda is willing to make Xebec sympathetic just to show us how evil they are - as if we didn’t already know. Oda has really moved in a direction regarding the moral landscape of One Piece where pirates are either automatically good or understandably bad, while the World Government, together with the Marines, is automatically corrupt, demonic, and evil.
Only one important question remains: If Rocks isn’t actually a power-mad lunatic surrounded by other power-mad lunatics just to one day topple the World Government, then what was his real goal in conquering the world? Why did he want to become the king of the world? Will it turn out that he only wanted to destroy the World Government to end slavery and oppression? Are we actually talking about a liberator? I wouldn’t be surprised by that, but really. So yes, Rocks isn’t actually a good person, and he definitely shouldn’t be turned into a hero, but Oda does exactly that.
What I’m most afraid of is that all this commotion around Rocks is only meant so that later, when the showdown between Luffy and Blackbeard happens, the latter gets absolved of his sins, or even worse: Blackbeard changes and ends up fighting alongside Luffy against Imu.
You can’t condemn Xebec’s actions while excusing Garp’s. Both are examples of child abuse. Garp beating up a kid every day for training doesn’t get a pass just because it’s convenient for your argument. The reality is neither of these moments are meant to be fixated on, and they definitely don’t define Xebec’s character. You cling unto this moment that the story essentially brushes off to paint Xebec as this extra vile figure, which he just isn’t lol.
I’ll keep this short. You sound like a broken record with the hostage argument. The whole point of the narration repeating the feat of killing an admiral was to hype Xebec’s strength. “No matter how much they tried, they couldn’t save the admiral’s life.” That line alone tells you what Oda was trying to convey.
Yes, Xebec could force Harald to fall in line because he had the manpower to threaten everyone close to him. That’s what Kaido was getting at. But when was Xebec ever portrayed as honorable? Every time he speaks with Harald, he comes across as upfront lol. He even called Harald out for lacking pride as a warrior when the latter considered killing his friend for the World Government. I don’t know why you keep trying to mold Xebec into Teach. Oda is making it clear they’re nothing alike. If anything, Teach being Xebec’s opposite is probably because he learned from how Xebec failed by trying to play the game straight until the very end.
Oda has been showing that most of their “crimes” are Mickey Mouse nonsense. The narration doesn’t line up with what we actually see on panel, just like Roger’s so-called crimes of plundering and slaughtering entire armies over petty insults. I’ve been pointing out Xebec and Whitebeard specifically, not the Rocks crew as a whole btw. I never painted Xebec as a cuddly hero either. It’s just that his persona fits the same great pirate mold Oda has used before. Sengoku spun his version of the story, and lied to you. Xebec isn’t a hero, but he’s not this “super intriguing villain” in the same vein as Teach that you desperately want him to be either. I’m sorry that I’m destroying your fantasies but it’s the truth. He’s closer to a Roger/WB figure than a villain lol.
And stop with the delusion that Whitebeard killed thousands of innocent people. Don’t know the can of worms you opened up with that one but I’m not in the mood to get into it.
I’ll keep this short. You sound like a broken record with the hostage argument. The whole point of the narration repeating the feat of killing an admiral was to hype Xebec’s strength. “No matter how much they tried, they couldn’t save the admiral’s life.” That line alone tells you what Oda was trying to convey.
Yes, Xebec could force Harald to fall in line because he had the manpower to threaten everyone close to him. That’s what Kaido was getting at. But when was Xebec ever portrayed as honorable? Every time he speaks with Harald, he comes across as upfront lol. He even called Harald out for lacking pride as a warrior when the latter considered killing his friend for the World Government. I don’t know why you keep trying to mold Xebec into Teach. Oda is making it clear they’re nothing alike. If anything, Teach being Xebec’s opposite is probably because he learned from how Xebec failed by trying to play the game straight until the very end.
Oda has been showing that most of their “crimes” are Mickey Mouse nonsense. The narration doesn’t line up with what we actually see on panel, just like Roger’s so-called crimes of plundering and slaughtering entire armies over petty insults. I’ve been pointing out Xebec and Whitebeard specifically, not the Rocks crew as a whole btw. I never painted Xebec as a cuddly hero either. It’s just that his persona fits the same great pirate mold Oda has used before. Sengoku spun his version of the story, and lied to you. Xebec isn’t a hero, but he’s not this “super intriguing villain” in the same vein as Teach that you desperately want him to be either. I’m sorry that I’m destroying your fantasies but it’s the truth. He’s closer to a Roger/WB figure than a villain lol.
And stop with the delusion that Whitebeard killed thousands of innocent people. Don’t know the can of worms you opened up with that one but I’m not in the mood to get into it.
I am not sure about it.
I questioned if it was Roger a while back as well, for similar reasons as @Francher Styles listed (especially point 2):
Loda retcons a lot, and asspulls are common nowadaya.
However, I am willing to give him a bit of benefit of doubt, when it comes to key characters like Shanks and Blackbeard.
It is plausible that Oda had some key aspects of Shanks planned out, like him being a CD and his father. Though I think the Shanks twin probably was an asspull.
I questioned if it was Roger a while back as well, for similar reasons as @Francher Styles listed (especially point 2):
Loda retcons a lot, and asspulls are common nowadaya.
However, I am willing to give him a bit of benefit of doubt, when it comes to key characters like Shanks and Blackbeard.
It is plausible that Oda had some key aspects of Shanks planned out, like him being a CD and his father. Though I think the Shanks twin probably was an asspull.