Chiatzu
- Thread starter NicoRobinIsQueen
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A couple of things that caught my interest regarding Master Roshi's Kamehameha:
When Goku transformed into an Oozaru during the World Tournament (the first one in the manga), his power level should have multiplied by 10 times his regular state. This is important because it raises the question of whether Master Roshi's power level changed significantly, if at all, throughout the series.
During the fight between Goku and Master Roshi (under his Jackie Chun persona), they were essentially fighting evenly with one another. This suggests that Goku's power level could be argued to be equal to Master Roshi's at that point. If Goku's power level was indeed equal to Master Roshi's at that time, when he transformed into an Oozaru, his power level would have increased to around 1,390, as the transformation is a 10x multiplier.
According to Daizenshuu 7, Roshi's power level was stated as 139 during the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai Saga (the second World Tournament in the series), and it remained the same in Chapter 209 when Bulma used the scouter to measure everyone's power levels. What this means that throughout the entirety of Dragon Ball, Master Roshi's base power level likely remained the same, despite his ability to power up temporarily in extreme situations like when he used the Moon Busting Kamehameha.
Plus, Master Roshi's Moon Busting Kamehameha (which has an actual name in the series) required him to power up to his MAX power state.
It is also mentioned (somewhere in the manga because I haven't read Dragon Ball since forever) that the capabilities of the Dragon Balls are limited by the power of their creator (example), but also in Chapter 18 of Dragon Ball Z where Oolong attempts to make a wish for the Saiyans to be beaten up only for Shenron to answer that he cannot grant wishes that surpass the power of the God that created him, who is Kami.
As for what the above sentence means, it's very much likely that the benchmark for Moonbusting starts with Kami here, since he somehow restored the Moon that Master Roshi destroyed earlier in the series.
Piccolo Jr.'s casual moon-busting feat is a completely different story because the Moon was shown to literally explode. Its kinetic energy can be calculated there, and explosions of planetary bodies somehow tend to yield values much higher than the minimum energy needed to destroy it.
EDIT: The winner of this VS match still doesn't change, although Whitebeard's earthquake feat done with OP Earth calculated size might bring out promising results.
When Goku transformed into an Oozaru during the World Tournament (the first one in the manga), his power level should have multiplied by 10 times his regular state. This is important because it raises the question of whether Master Roshi's power level changed significantly, if at all, throughout the series.
During the fight between Goku and Master Roshi (under his Jackie Chun persona), they were essentially fighting evenly with one another. This suggests that Goku's power level could be argued to be equal to Master Roshi's at that point. If Goku's power level was indeed equal to Master Roshi's at that time, when he transformed into an Oozaru, his power level would have increased to around 1,390, as the transformation is a 10x multiplier.
According to Daizenshuu 7, Roshi's power level was stated as 139 during the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai Saga (the second World Tournament in the series), and it remained the same in Chapter 209 when Bulma used the scouter to measure everyone's power levels. What this means that throughout the entirety of Dragon Ball, Master Roshi's base power level likely remained the same, despite his ability to power up temporarily in extreme situations like when he used the Moon Busting Kamehameha.
Plus, Master Roshi's Moon Busting Kamehameha (which has an actual name in the series) required him to power up to his MAX power state.
- In this form, Roshi faces significant limitations, such as his inability to move much at all after he has powered up.
- After the Kamehameha, Roshi "deflates" almost immediately back down to his base state. In Chapter 52 of the manga, he couldn't even make a Kamehameha because his energy reserves were completely down the drain after that attack.
- In Chapter 51 of the manga, right before Roshi starts to charge up his Kamehameha, Yamcha yells out that the Kamehameha could kill Goku. This is most likely a guess since Yamcha didn't have the ability to sense Power Levels this early on in the series.
- The power of the Kamehameha was powerful enough that even its shockwaves managed to surprise Goku in his Oozaru state and sent him flying across a wall right near the entrance gate.
It is also mentioned (somewhere in the manga because I haven't read Dragon Ball since forever) that the capabilities of the Dragon Balls are limited by the power of their creator (example), but also in Chapter 18 of Dragon Ball Z where Oolong attempts to make a wish for the Saiyans to be beaten up only for Shenron to answer that he cannot grant wishes that surpass the power of the God that created him, who is Kami.
As for what the above sentence means, it's very much likely that the benchmark for Moonbusting starts with Kami here, since he somehow restored the Moon that Master Roshi destroyed earlier in the series.
Piccolo Jr.'s casual moon-busting feat is a completely different story because the Moon was shown to literally explode. Its kinetic energy can be calculated there, and explosions of planetary bodies somehow tend to yield values much higher than the minimum energy needed to destroy it.
EDIT: The winner of this VS match still doesn't change, although Whitebeard's earthquake feat done with OP Earth calculated size might bring out promising results.
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As though Roshi had literally any reason or motivation at all to hold back against King Piccolo when the whole world was in danger. He killed himself trying to contain KP for god's sakes.
And Piccolo/23rd Budokai are>King Piccolo
Shenron recreated the Moon and shits his pants in front of King Piccolo.Not rly much to debate here
And Piccolo/23rd Budokai are>King Piccolo
Shenron recreated the Moon and shits his pants in front of King Piccolo.Not rly much to debate here
That MAX power form of Roshi had some major downsides, such as not being able to move, so Roshi using it wouldn't have been an option in the Piccolo fight, regardless of the power increase over his regular state.
Mafuba has less drawbacks, and can affect opponents above the user's paygrade (Old King Piccolo > Master Roshi is a given here), almost sealing Old King Piccolo again in the rice cooker until he barely missed it.
Frost sealing Vegeta in the Tournament of Power with the redirected Mafuba is an another example of Mafuba being able to affect fighters stronger than the user itself 🤔
I wanted to say a lot more about the whole Roshi Moon level topic but I'll bring it up again after I read DB
Mafuba has less drawbacks, and can affect opponents above the user's paygrade (Old King Piccolo > Master Roshi is a given here), almost sealing Old King Piccolo again in the rice cooker until he barely missed it.
Frost sealing Vegeta in the Tournament of Power with the redirected Mafuba is an another example of Mafuba being able to affect fighters stronger than the user itself 🤔
I wanted to say a lot more about the whole Roshi Moon level topic but I'll bring it up again after I read DB
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