General & Others Could Zoro have kept up with Luffy and Sanji if

[Rumble]

It’s either black blades are coated in armament hardening or not

We know black blades have turned permanently black because of Haki.

There is no evidence suggesting they constantly flow or emanate CoA Hardening or have some permanent version of CoA Imbuement going on.

You might be confusing iron and steel but even zoro couldn’t cut steel till after the timeskip

The confusion is on your part.

You are confusing Zoro's inability to cut Pacifista/Kuma with his inability to cut steel. Pacifista are made of a material stronger than steel.

Zoro learned to cut steel against Daz Bones, I already posted the panel.

I don't see much going in continuing when it's clear you lack familiarity with the material.

 

[Albino 👑]

We know black blades have turned permanently black because of Haki.

There is no evidence suggesting they constantly flow or emanate CoA Hardening or have some permament version of CoA Imbuement going on.

Okay so it’s armament hardening either way
Whether or not like permanent armament I guess we won’t know till we learn more

The confusion is on your part.

You are confusing Zoro's inability to cut Pacifista/Kuma with his inability to cut steel. Pacifista are made of a material stronger than steel.

Zoro learned to cut steel against Daz Bones, I already posted the panel.

I don't see much going in continuing when it's clear you lack familiarity with the material.

Ironic to say that when you didn’t know daz was made of iron not steel

More

Even more
East blue zoro can’t cut iron bars

Don krieg’s armor is made from a specific steel

Little garden Zoro couldn’t cut Mr. 3’s iron hard wax

More Zoro saying he needed to cut iron to cut daz

Luffy breaking steal and Zoro cutting iron

Zoro being able to cut stone and iron but not steal post kaku fight

The pacifista being made of even harder material than iron like steel

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Pick an argument
Are you arguing that Zoro’s weaker swords would make it easier for his opponents to break or that Zoro’s swords wouldn’t be able to handle his own attacks?

Why not both?

like what’s saying that it has to only be one or the other?

In fact why can’t we say that both can be a factor AT THE EXACT SAME TIME… As in Zoro ends up clashing with like Daz bones Or whoever And the combined force of BOTH Daz’s strikes and Zoro’s power BOTH are too much much for Zoro’s swords.

why are you implying that it has to be one and not the other?

Anyway, the reason this stops being an issue post time skip is what Mihawk, said, any sword can become a black blade… even Zoro’s east blue ones… Because CoA makes the actual strength of the swords entirely dependent on the strength of the CoA, it stops mattering how strong the swords are

So if by some miracle Zoro’s east blue swords survived to post time skip then

1) The strength of both Zoro and his opponents would have to be put into question for having failed to break his swords

2) From post time skip onwards, if Zoro’s swords break, it’s mainly because his haki is shit to not have protected them in the first place. Then to a lesser extent, the swords’ strength comes in after Zoro’s haki has been overpowered

 

[Rumble]

Ironic to say that when you didn’t know daz was made of iron not steel

I'm sure you think this is a new argument.

Do you know why the One Piece wiki says steel and not iron?

Because Daz is a Sword-Human.

Swords are made out of what? That's right, steel.

It's no coincidence the steel-wielding Seraphim S-Shark has the Lineage Factor abilities of the Dice Dice Fruit, which itself looks like steel blades.

You are years late to this topic.

 

[Albino 👑]

Why not both?

like what’s saying that it has to only be one or the other?

In fact why can’t we say that both can be a factor AT THE EXACT SAME TIME… As in Zoro ends up clashing with like Daz bones Or whoever And the combined force of BOTH Daz’s strikes and Zoro’s power BOTH are too much much for Zoro’s swords.

why are you implying that it has to be one and not the other?

Anyway, the reason this stops being an issue post time skip is what Mihawk, said, any sword can become a black blade… even Zoro’s east blue ones… Because CoA makes the actual strength of the swords entirely dependent on the strength of the CoA, it stops mattering how strong the swords are

So if by some miracle Zoro’s east blue swords survived to post time skip then

1) The strength of both Zoro and his opponents would have to be put into question for having failed to break his swords

2) From post time skip onwards, if Zoro’s swords break, it’s mainly because his haki is shit to not have protected them in the first place. Then to a lesser extent, the swords’ strength comes in after Zoro’s haki has been overpowered

If you want to argue pre timeskip Zoro being too strong for his swords you still need at the very least an implication that Zoro’s strength were effecting his swords back then
Plus Queen has a nameless sword and is significantly physically stronger than pre timeskip zoro

I'm sure you think this is a new argument.

Do you know why the One Piece wiki says steel and not iron?

Because Daz is a Sword-Human.

Swords are made out of what? That's right, steel.

It's no coincidence the steel-wielding Seraphim S-Shark has the Lineage Factor abilities of the Dice Dice Fruit, which itself looks like steel blades.

You are years late to this topic.

I deadass gave you the raw panel evidence…
Ignoring the original for a mistranslation is arguably dumber than arguing anime canon over manga

If the manga isn’t proof enough
Number 6 explains the inconsistency in the anime
https://gamerant.com/one-piece-inconsistencies-introduced-by-anime-filler-arcs/
And more evidence from someone who reads Japanese
https://www.fanverse.org/goto/post?id=66937700

 

[kekaro]

I mean Sandai is literally two sword ranks below Wado and Enma… And yet you can’t tell the difference right? Have you noticed anything about Zoro’s capabilities changing based on whether he uses sandai or not?

English please

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

If you want to argue pre timeskip Zoro being too strong for his swords you still need at the very least an implication that Zoro’s strength were effecting his swords back then
Plus Queen has a nameless sword and is significantly physically stronger than pre timeskip zoro

Queen’s swords being nameless doesn’t mean they are as weak as Zoro’s… also Queen could just as easily be using armament on them, remember that armament is invincible when Oda wants it to be

“ Zoro’s strength were effecting his swords back”… what are you talking about? You’re asking whether Zoro was strong enough to destroy his swords back then? I mean Zoro was stronger than East blue luffy, and east blue Luffy is shown cracking Arlong’s sword with his bare hands… so…

 

[Rukusho]

Pick an argument
Are you arguing that Zoro’s weaker swords would make it easier for his opponents to break or that Zoro’s swords wouldn’t be able to handle his own attacks?

If you’re arguing the first
Yes it would make it easier for his opponents


If you’re arguing the second
Show evidence of Zoro’s swords struggling to withstand his own attacks. If you can’t it’s headcanon
I can show you east blue Zoro’s swords being able to use sanzen sekai no problem or even post timeskip Zoro’s swords being able to withstand arguably his 2nd strongest attack below his new sanzen sekai not needing hardening
Again if you can’t show pre timeskip zoro holding back due to fear of his so fragile swords then it means they were fine


Blackbeard had to train because he couldn’t fully control the quake fruit. So is it a power up yes or no?

Yes it is
Being made of rubber is the main part of the fruit. You can’t just remove that

Yes the great black blade that automatically made his attacks stronger is a power up

Its seems you're missing the point ..

Zoro literally in the panel you posted : It looks impressive buts its too big and slow, thats proof that I can't fully control it yet

The sword at the moment is a hindrance until he has it mastered ..

In regards to Black Beard ... that panel doesn't help you .. Burgess literally says he's going to sink the island they are on because he's so drunk on power -- is this good for a devil fruit user ? AGAIN Black Beard reenforces that needs to be capable of controlling the DF not RAW power there is no benefit to it.

This is also mentioned by Mihawk a powerful sword without subtly is a waste you're too focused on raw power.

 

[Albino 👑]

Queen’s swords being nameless doesn’t mean they are as weak as Zoro’s… also Queen could just as easily be using armament on them, remember that armament is invincible when Oda wants it to be

“ Zoro’s strength were effecting his swords back”… what are you talking about? You’re asking whether Zoro was strong enough to destroy his swords back then? I mean Zoro was stronger than East blue luffy, and east blue Luffy is shown cracking Arlong’s sword with his bare hands… so…

East blue Zoro’s swords were capable of handling his swords. All I ask is to show evidence of zoro at least mentioning how his attacks effect his swords pre timeskip

Its seems you're missing the point ..

Zoro literally in the panel you posted : It looks impressive buts its too big and slow, thats proof that I can't fully control it yet

The sword at the moment is a hindrance until he has it mastered ..

In regards to Black Beard ... that panel doesn't help you .. Burgess literally says he's going to sink the island they are on because he's so drunk on power -- is this good for a devil fruit user ? AGAIN Black Beard reenforces that needs to be capable of controlling the DF not RAW power there is no benefit to it.

This is also mentioned by Mihawk a powerful sword without subtly is a waste you're too focused on raw power.

Having to master a power up doesn’t change the fact that it’s a power up

? Blackbeard straight up says he can’t control the power
It still requires training to use more effectively same way shusui did for zoro

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

English please

Sandai Kitetsu, Zoro’s third sword, is TWO RANKS WEAKER than Wado ichimonji and Enma

Yet this difference in ranks doesn’t affect anything Zoro does in combat… Sandai doesn’t behave any worse in combat than the other swords despite being a worse sword

East blue Zoro’s swords were capable of handling his swords. All I ask is to show evidence of zoro at least mentioning how his attacks effect his swords pre timeskip

east blue Zoro is weaker than Alabasta Zoro who is also weaker than Ennies lobby Zoro who is also weaker than thriller bark Zoro

the fact that East blue Luffy can shatter Arlong’s sword with his bare hands means at the moment that Zoro became stronger than east blue Luffy, his swords would also shatter from his strength

I say by whiskey, When Zoro and Luffy were having equal clashes, if Zoro at whiskey peak clashed with Luffy while having his fodder swords that clash would have destroyed his sword… Because Whiskey peak Zoro and Whiskey peak Luffy are BOTH stronger than East Blue Luffy who can shatter fodder swords

 

[kekaro]

Sandai Kitetsu, Zoro’s third sword, is TWO RANKS WEAKER than Wado ichimonji and Enma

Yet this difference in ranks doesn’t affect anything Zoro does in combat… Sandai doesn’t behave any worse in combat than the other swords despite being a worse sword

The question was if they dont affect anything why he doesnt use normal swords and the post you quoted was they grading by ratings
You know the grading system is a real historical system right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wazamono
Do you think if you have 2 real graded swords they start acting up something? Ey lmao. They are just better

Imagine arguing against mangaka and his inpsiraton, im sure grade of the swords make it smell better when you dont shower for one week instead

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

The question was if they dont affect anything why he doesnt use normal swords and the post you quoted was they grading by ratings
You know the grading system is a real historical system right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wazamono
Do you think if you have 2 real graded swords they start acting up something? Ey lmao. They are just better

Imagine arguing against mangaka and his inpsiraton, im sure grade of the swords make it smell better when you dont shower for one week instead

Why are you pulling out Wikipedia when it’s explained in the manga itself?

we saw IN THE MANGA what the difference between “normal swords” and graded swords is, when Mihawk slashed Zoro and only one sword survived

In pre time skip, the reason Zoro didn’t use “normal swords” is right there, so that a mihawk situation doesn’t happen again

post time skip, we are given the flashback from Mihawk telling Zoro that actually him letting even his “normal swords” get destroyed was weak shit… That ANY SWORD should be fine actually since CoA exists and CoA is what really protects the swords, not even their sword grade matters if your haki is good enough

So yeah, no need for headcanon and Wikipedia, everything is already explained in the manga

 

[HerreraIsBack]

So no yubashiri, no sandai kitetsu, no shusui, and no enma
Just wado ichimonji and his 2 nameless blades

In my opinion Shusui is the only game changer for Zoro. BUT! It would've only impacted him at Thriller Bark in the final fight against Oars and afterwards against Kuma. The combined attacked of the monster trio against a Pacifista would've still defeated it. And after that Zoro just had impossible fights where he couldn't win (Kizaru/Kuma at Egghead) or fights too easy that he didn't needed so much power (everything until Wano where that motherfucker bitch Hiyori stoles his deserved earned Shusui from him and he delivers to her like an idiot because that's what Oda made him at Wano and afterwards an idiot that can regonized his captain using Conqueror's but not himself)

Oh sure it would've impacted on him defeated the monkeys of Mihawk's island too. But since it was offscreened I can't say if it would've make much difference.