Powers & Abilities Crews dynamic and why "YC1" Level doesn't exist

#21
Smoothies beats king forget Yasopp
yeah she will beat him on the bed because of her thickness. otherwhise any YC1 will destroy her and yassop will lick their juices at the same time :suresure:

Imagine denying YC1 lvl because ... for 0 reason. Oda made all YC1 special, they are stronger than any of their crewmates except their captains. Exception Ray or Zoro because previous PK/FM and the next PK/FM parallel
 
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#23
that's not the point , both Big Mom and Kaido crews are very comparable in strength and structure


the outlier is when you compare them to Roger's , Luffy's and most importantly Shanks' where you could make the argument that Yasopp or Roux are stronger than King or Katakuri





me too , Oda built Shanks' crew imo to be the strongest crew ever in One Piece history and only to be surpassed by Luffy's eventually
Nope.Bm's crew it seems stronger than Kaido's crew.There are also many feats that show this.
 

Finalbeta

Hero of Albion
#29
YC1 is arguably fan made even as a power level concept, however it can still used in debates assuming it's not implied as an absolute one.

Benn is not King
Marco is not King
We have Shiryu too

Furthermore, not everyone is necessarily considered like technically YC1, rather vice captain sometimes.
 
#32
Though I agree there is no real YC1 there some mistakes

Marco, jozu and Vista
Ehm no Vista and Marco are a tier above Jozu
Definitely not Marco clashes with BM Peros shit in his pants
Scopper was never comparable to yonko, same with Rayleigh... only Oden can be.
Scopper not but Rayleigh can
Rayleigh even said that in his prime he could hold off Kizaru and save the strawhats
Rayleigh is even above Oden
 
#35
For Shanks' crew for example to make any sense as a Yonko of the sea , they need to bridge the military gap and have quality over quantity thus making Benn Beckman , Lucky Roo and Yassopp all superior to every single other First-Mate of other Yonko crews (King/Katakuri/Shiryu?) ... This was put most clearly by Oda in chapter 957 when he presented each Emperor bounty he made sure to mention what made each Emperors the powerhouse they are right now and for Shanks it was his crewmmates that got most of the hype like I wouldn't be surprised if Beckman , Roux or Yasopp had higher bounty than BB himself a rival Emperor.
No,since the RH are said to be well-balanced,that means that the weaker crew members are closer to the top 3,while in other yonkou crews that is not the case.We will probably see couple of YC4 lvl guys(probably those 5 unknown guys that appeared at marine ford war) and the rest of notable crew mates will probably be easily on lower tier of Vet /F5 lvl or Tamago lvl.
 
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#36
Matching crews and drawing parallels became the norme in our community and with the recent chapters people became very toxic about how certain Yonko Commanders aren't living up to their names like King and expecting more comparing him to the likes of Katakuri or Marco

And in this thread I wanted to show that there's no "YC1 level" it's simplistic view that got built inside the community and it stuck but if you look deep in the story Oda never portrayed YC1 as a faction and grouping ppl like Beckman , Marco , Katakuri , King , Shiryu , Sabo , Zoro etc together as equals or at same level ... I would go as far as say that some of these are leagues above others in the "YC1 level" that ppl use regularly


Let's start by the variant Crew structures and dynamics that Oda presented in the series by using the 8 strongest crews we know of and I divided them into 2 groups :


- Very Small Compact Group with really strong top individuals like Roger Pirates , Rocks Pirates , Red Haired Pirates and StrawHat Pirates



Each of these crew share almost the same dynamic of having very few crew members but to compensate for that have extremely strong individuals at the helm and the difference between the Captain and his Vice-Captain is almost non-existant and is portrayed by Oda in numerous occassions as duos/partners , Luffy/Zoro , Shanks/Beckman , Roger/Rayleigh (we still dont know much about Rocks but I'm assuming the same dynamic)



- Large Organization from top to bottom , that has much less emphasis on it's top combatant and there's a clear distinct gap between the Captain and his top subordinates and these crews would be WhiteBeard Pirates , BlackBeard Pirates , Big Mom Pirates and Beast Pirates



These Crew share a very close general idea but obviously a few differences in the specific structures like the DC/TC system of WB/BB and the AllStar/SC system of Kaido/BM ... But even with those differenecs it's still the same with the fact that the Captain in these crews clearly distances himself from the rest of the crew

WhiteBeard calls Marco and the rest of his commanders as his sons , Big Mom looks down on her children and doesn't consider Katakuri an equal to her , BB doesn't care about crewmates and only power hungry and Kaido is the clearly the guy that has most distance with his crewmates as with the general ideology of his crew being a Meritocracy





With this being said we have 2 very different visions that Oda presents us in the story and the terms of YC1 YC2 YC3 etc were never mentioned in the manga at all but just fan made and concluded off either strength or bounty and I think it's far from the truth to say someone like Beckman who's more close to the Emperors themselves should be compared to King or Katakuri

For Shanks' crew for example to make any sense as a Yonko of the sea , they need to bridge the military gap and have quality over quantity thus making Benn Beckman , Lucky Roo and Yassopp all superior to every single other First-Mate of other Yonko crews (King/Katakuri/Shiryu?) ... This was put most clearly by Oda in chapter 957 when he presented each Emperor bounty he made sure to mention what made each Emperors the powerhouse they are right now and for Shanks it was his crewmmates that got most of the hype like I wouldn't be surprised if Beckman , Roux or Yasopp had higher bounty than BB himself a rival Emperor.






At the end please stop wanting to match each crew ignoring their background and their system/structure and make it simple like :

Beckman = Katakuri = King = Marco = Shiryu = Zoro
Roux = Smoothie = Queen = Vista = Pizzaro = Sanji
Yasopp = Cracker = Jack = Jozu = Vasco = Jinbei


That's not how Oda presented in the story nor would it make sense trying to put it as simple as that (ppl in every top 30 list do the same cliché of listing the "3rd"s from each crew than the "2nd"s than the "1st"s than start scaling to Admirals and Emperors without putting any thought into it ) ...

YC are not same level so stop comparing them to each other expecting the same thing and lastly because Luffy's crew fits the first category I believe Zoro/Sanji/Jinbei will be much closer to Luffy than ppl expect them to be and they will surpass every YC very soon and by the end of the series just like Rayleigh/Gaban/Oden they would be comparable to Emperors themselves.
this is wrong, simply having smaller number doesnt mean stronger members and Larger numbers doesnt mean weaker members... Roger is Special Case, StrawHats are special case and they are Pirate kings not Yonko
Rocks wasnt small crew and Xebec was much stronger than Roger, let alone weak Shiki, WB and BM
as an example Oden wasnt Roger Pirate but WBP, are you going to put Oden lower than any RP fighter ?
are you going to put Marco below any BBP/RHP subordinate just because WBP had 1500+ members ?
and you would put king as if he was as weak as some random commander of WBP because Beast Pirates are 30K and 20xWBP ?
which makes King and Queen who have 1.3Billion+ bounty as characters who would get beaten by those random RHP fighters shown in background of Shanks cause Beast Pirates is like 300-400xRHP in numbers ?
and if thats not enough, Yassop the supposed 2nd or 3rd strongest RHPs has had issues/fights with vista, now are you going to say Vista is much weaker just because he is part of a crew who is like 30xRHP in numbers ?
not only that, what are you going to do with Aokiji there in BBP, he is Yonko level himself let alone Yonko Commanders
....
RHP was already mentioned to have more balanced crew than other Yonko, that doesnt mean RHP's top 3 fighters beside Shanks must be stronger than all other Yonko, it just means he has more than 3 top fighters that are strong and so they can fight off other Yonko... and it could also mean Shanks himself is weaker than other Yonko themselves
...
there are special cases, there are weaker and stronger commanders but overall YCs are supposed to counter other YCs, there is no way Benn could overwhelm Marco, that is if he could even win against Marco who fought BM...there is absolutely no way Benn could overwhelm Aokiji
 
#37
That's way too much explanation lol. It's like the same problem these power scaling people have, only in the other direction.

DBZ kinda fucked itself because it assigned numbers, so it forced a system onto itself and then some, considering its linear concept of power.

OP doesn't have this problem but all of these readers are trained from other manga. Just fucking... chill and interpret what Oda is doing after the fact instead of trying to take every little thing to stuff into some fake bullshit math as it's going
 
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#39
YC1 should be used to designate a floor, not a ceiling. It just means > YC2, but we don't quite know where the upper bound ends.

It's like VA. VA > Rear Admirals, but VAs vary greatly in power.
It's not like VA because VA is an actual rank Oda uses that carries a defined strength qualification. "YC" is just something Poster Zero pulled out from between his ass hairs for the other 40 million of you to chew on.
 
#40
There's definitely different gaps and dynamics between the top subordinates of different crews. If we look at the past two arcs for example we have :

Big Mom Pirates

Katakuri is perceived as invincible within Big Mom's crew. He's the man that they think can not lose, and no questiones asked, everyone sees him as their superior in terms of strength.

Smoothie and Cracker on the other hand have no example of clear cut superior portrayal outside of a 70 million difference in bounty. However, that also becomes questionable when you realize Cracker's bounty poster only features one of his Biscuit Soldiers, showing that the WG lacks information when calculating his threat level.

Beast Pirates

King and Queen go back and forth arguing with each other, with neither backing down or acknowledging the others authority. They get introduced together, and are paralleled in many instances with them guarding the execution platform, guarding the different routes towards the roof, us being shown that Zoro perceives both routes to be just as difficult because of their presence, and both being featured as the last line of defense towards the roof with Marco having to keep both of them busy so that Zoro can get up there.

Jack however is used as point of reference to hype the two even as soon as their introduction. He calls both of them "older brothers", get's scolded by them and never talks back to them. A clear gap is established separating them from him, while same gap is never established between the two.

So when you compare the crew dynamics you get something like :

Katakuri >> Smoothier>= Cracker

King >= Queen >> Jack

And then there's the Snack that i've purposedly ignored up to this point. Because officially there are Three All Stars for the Beast Pirates and Four Sweet Commanders for the Big Mom Pirates.

So Snack is probably there to balance out the above gaps to an extent, and make up for the fact that the Big Mom Pirates features a more significant gap between the quality of their strongest commander, and the next in line.
 
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