Questions & Mysteries Cursed swords MISCONCEPTION

[Kurozumi Giggio]

So right now we know that cursed blades are only called as such because their quality is superior, so the general consensus is that all ranked blades are also cursed blades but this is clearly WRONG for 2 reasons :
1) Law's sword KIkoku is a cursed blade (confirmed by Oda) but not a 21 owazamono or even a 50 ryo-owazamono
2) Zoro when he acquired the Sandai kitetsu sword noted that it cuts more then needed in a curious way , implying that Wado doesn't have that property , so it's 99 percent likely that Wado doesn't have the same properties that Sandai kitetsu have

So the only reasonable conclusion is that Wado is a Owazamono that is NOT a cursed blade and therefore a sword being Owazamono doesn't imply that it's also a cursed blade.

So Kouzaburo statement about Cursed blades being simply powerful swords feared by the weak doesn't imply ANYTHING about the Sword rank
IF a sword is
- ranked + cursed sword OVER ranked sword OVER not ranked cursed sword

i think my logic makes sense but let me know if you disagree in some way with my reasoning

 

[Minatoze Narutomaki]

I don't know what you are talking about but can anyone explain why Enma was reacting to Shamisen

 

[Herrera95]

Didn't fully understood. But you are trying to say that Enma > Shusui because Enma is cursed and Shusui isn't? Maybe not now since Shusui is black blade but once Enma turns into black blade it would be superior to Shusui for also being cursed.

Is that your idea?

 

[Kurozumi Giggio]

I don't know what you are talking about but can anyone explain why Enma was reacting to Shamisen

i just said that a ranked blade isn't necesseraly a cursed blade, that's it

 

[L55]

I don't know what you are talking about but can anyone explain why Enma was reacting to Shamisen

Enma didnt reacted to the song
It was reacting to zoro becsuse he didnt go all out with haki
Enma was testing zoro

 

[Kurozumi Giggio]

Didn't fully understood. But you are trying to say that Enma > Shusui because Enma is cursed and Shusui isn't? Maybe not now since Shusui is black blade but once Enma turns into black blade it would be superior to Shusui for also being cursed.

Is that your idea?

I'm not sure about Enma vs Shusui , Zoro with mastered Enma is definitely stronger then Zoro with mastered Shusui, that's for sure

 

[Peroroncino]

I don't know what you are talking about but can anyone explain why Enma was reacting to Shamisen

it wasn't it was a red herring

 

[York]

I wasn't even aware that "every ranked blade is cursed" was a common opinion. Seems like a rather silly thing to think

 

[Herrera95]

I'm not sure about Enma vs Shusui , Zoro with mastered Enma is definitely stronger then Zoro with mastered Shusui, that's for sure

No it is not. I could accept Black Blade Enma being equal to Black Blade Shusui but not stronger. And you are not even saying that but saying only mastered.

 

[Kurozumi Giggio]

I wasn't even aware that "every ranked blade is cursed" was a common opinion. Seems like a rather silly thing to think

well, kouzaburo did say that Strong blades are feared by the weak and therefore are called "cursed" , thing is that all the ranked blades are strong blades so what kozaburo said is a factual inconsistency with Law's sword not being a Meito

http://imgur.com/a/tXo9HlI

 

[cleanmrpostman]

No it is not. I could accept Black Blade Enma being equal to Black Blade Shusui but not stronger. And you are not even saying that but saying only mastered.

Do you mean you think Zoro with Shusui was stronger than current Zoro? Enma's clearly a stronger blade even before turning black, unless you have to be the swordsman who turned a blade black to use it's full potential. I thought the whole idea here is that rank =/= strength of blade?

 

[Herrera95]

Do you mean you think Zoro with Shusui was stronger than current Zoro? Enma's clearly a stronger blade even before turning black, unless you have to be the swordsman who turned a blade black to use it's full potential. I thought the whole idea here is that rank =/= strength of blade?

Hold on.

I'm saying Zoro with Shusui is stronger than Zoro with Enma. If you compare current Zoro that has ACoC with previous Zoro that didn't when wielding Shusui of course current Zoro with Enma will be stronger.

Enma and Shusui has same rank. What is your point?

But Shusui is black blade. Therefore it is stronger.

Enma will not rank up if it turns into black blade.
First of all that guy said it is a possibility for Enma to rank up if it turns intil black blade.
Second, Enma will be the same grade only with same feats and properties of swords in a higher rank.

My proof of that is that Yoru and WB's blade are the same rank. But it is the last rank. Which means if WB's blade became black blade it would remain the same rank but with better properties.

 

[cleanmrpostman]

Hold on.

I'm saying Zoro with Shusui is stronger than Zoro with Enma. If you compare current Zoro that has ACoC with previous Zoro that didn't when wielding Shusui of course current Zoro with Enma will be stronger.

Enma and Shusui has same rank. What is your point?

But Shusui is black blade. Therefore it is stronger.

Enma will not rank up if it turns into black blade.
First of all that guy said it is a possibility for Enma to rank up if it turns intil black blade.
Second, Enma will be the same grade only with same feats and properties of swords in a higher rank.

My proof of that is that Yoru and WB's blade are the same rank. But it is the last rank. Which means if WB's blade became black blade it would remain the same rank but with better properties.

My point is that you're stuck in the idea that Enma can only be of equal strength, and was wondering if you think that because they're both of o wazamono rank? We don't have conclusive evidence that higher rank == stronger blade. You also seem to think that black blade == stronger, but doesn't that contradict you because even though Shusui is a black blade, it's the same rank as current enma, so which attribute is more important? Is Shusui stronger than Saijo o wazamonos we know of that aren't black?

I'm saying Zoro with Shusui is stronger than Zoro with Enma

And I'm saying that Enma is clearly a more powerful blade that even top swordsman can't handle, even the scabbards feared it and Kozaburo raved about it's ability to kill, over the Wado Ichimonji despite them having the same rank. Zoro with Shusui > Zoro with Enma is your headcanon

 

[Herrera95]

My point is that you're stuck in the idea that Enma can only be of equal strength, and was wondering if you think that because they're both of o wazamono rank? We don't have conclusive evidence that higher rank == stronger blade. You also seem to think that black blade == stronger, but doesn't that contradict you because even though Shusui is a black blade, it's the same rank as current enma, so which attribute is more important? Is Shusui stronger than Saijo o wazamonos we know of that aren't black?


And I'm saying that Enma is clearly a more powerful blade that even top swordsman can't handle, even the scabbards feared it and Kozaburo raved about it's ability to kill, over the Wado Ichimonji despite them having the same rank. Zoro with Shusui > Zoro with Enma is your headcanon

Higher Rank == Stronger Blade. It is being like that since Wado didn't broke by Mihawk's attack and Zoro got his new blades at Longuetown they being better ranked swords and stronger.

But with Shusui the gap between same rank but black blade was even bigger. Zoro stated this pretty well.

So it is clear that better rank means stronger and black blades too.

So is headcannon to think Enma is even at the same level of Black Blade Shusui.

 

[cleanmrpostman]

Higher Rank == Stronger Blade. It is being like that since Wado didn't broke by Mihawk's attack and Zoro got his new blades at Longuetown they being better ranked swords and stronger.

But with Shusui the gap between same rank but black blade was even bigger. Zoro stated this pretty well.

So it is clear that better rank means stronger and black blades too.

So is headcannon to think Enma is even at the same level of Black Blade Shusui.

We've never seen the Sandai do worse in comparison to the Wado, despite being a lower rank. Sure the quality of those no-name blades was lower than a meito so it broke, but in terms of strength, the ability to cut down an opponent, there is no conclusive proof that rank is everything.
Enma has better feats than Shusui and requires a top-level swordsman to wield. Oda hasn't exactly tried hard in making Enma seem worse (or even equal) to Shusui.

But with Shusui the gap between same rank but black blade was even bigger. Zoro stated this pretty well.

If you can provide when Zoro says this I'll take what I said back. Until then I'll go by what Kozaburo said, being that desire to kill makes the best sword, and Enma has that over Shusui, a sword that could be wielded by pre-ts Zoro.

 

[Herrera95]

We've never seen the Sandai do worse in comparison to the Wado, despite being a lower rank. Sure the quality of those no-name blades was lower than a meito so it broke, but in terms of strength, the ability to cut down an opponent, there is no conclusive proof that rank is everything.
Enma has better feats than Shusui and requires a top-level swordsman to wield. Oda hasn't exactly tried hard in making Enma seem worse (or even equal) to Shusui.

If you can provide when Zoro says this I'll take what I said back. Until then I'll go by what Kozaburo said, being that desire to kill makes the best sword, and Enma has that over Shusui, a sword that could be wielded by pre-ts Zoro.

Zoro is using Wado to finally cut Mr 1. Not sure if pre-timeskip he is only using Wado to cut steel.

Enma has better feats than Shusui? Based on what? Oda failed to show Enma better than Shusui. First of all it nerfs the user. Zoro clearly says at 1001 and 1033 that he was holding back with Enma. Second, Enma is using it user haki. So nothing supports Enma being a power up.

Why Enma has a better desire to kill than Shusui? Only because it's trying to kill the own user?

Shusui is already a black blade and we have some lines inclining killing to be one of the keys for a black blade. And Shusui already slayed a Dragon. Enma is doing what? Missing Kaido to cut a horn?

 

[cleanmrpostman]

Zoro is using Wado to finally cut Mr 1. Not sure if pre-timeskip he is only using Wado to cut steel.

Enma has better feats than Shusui? Based on what? Oda failed to show Enma better than Shusui. First of all it nerfs the user. Zoro clearly says at 1001 and 1033 that he was holding back with Enma. Second, Enma is using it user haki. So nothing supports Enma being a power up.

Why Enma has a better desire to kill than Shusui? Only because it's trying to kill the own user?

Shusui is already a black blade and we have some lines inclining killing to be one of the keys for a black blade. And Shusui already slayed a Dragon. Enma is doing what? Missing Kaido to cut a horn?

That Wado cutting steel thing is another level of denial. If the Sandai can't cut steel, how has Zoro been using the whole of post-ts? It's been all but confirmed in Wano that the cutting of steel and nothing is armament haki, so no reason Sandai couldn't cut steel.

Enma wasn't an immediate power-up, sure. But it was a training tool for Zoro. He literally said himself that when he gets used to Enma he'll be stronger. Shusui couldn't make Zoro improve like he has with Enma.

Killing a dragon isn't necessarily a crazy feat. Scarring Kaido is incredibly rare. Your whole argument is dependant upon your headcanon, show me panels

 

[Ven437]

Cursed blade = feared by people. Doesn't say anything about its grade. It could also be ungraded.

Cursed blades can also have special properties that make it hard to wield like Enma or Shisui.

Any sufficiently competent swordsman will be able wield a cursed blade based on specialty but not all cursed blades can be wielded by a single master swordsman. Once again, requirements for Shisui =/= requirements for Enma.

 

[Herrera95]

That Wado cutting steel thing is another level of denial. If the Sandai can't cut steel, how has Zoro been using the whole of post-ts? It's been all but confirmed in Wano that the cutting of steel and nothing is armament haki, so no reason Sandai couldn't cut steel.

Enma wasn't an immediate power-up, sure. But it was a training tool for Zoro. He literally said himself that when he gets used to Enma he'll be stronger. Shusui couldn't make Zoro improve like he has with Enma.

Killing a dragon isn't necessarily a crazy feat. Scarring Kaido is incredibly rare. Your whole argument is dependant upon your headcanon, show me panels

Back then Zoro wasn't a master of haki. Therefore he could only do it with Wado for it superiority.

How is Enma a trainning tool? Again, everybody is growing up haki without Enma. Enma is not needed for sure. Zoro always trained without Enma. Mihawk, Shanks, Roger never trained with Enma. He ASKED if he would be stronger. Also he could mean he was just become stronger with Enma mastererd than his previous version without mastering.

Zoro IMMEDIATELY state his attacks to be stronger with Shusui.

Killing a dragon is not a crazy feat until Oda shows up that dragon wasa previous DF user of Kaido's DF.

Post automatically merged: Feb 7, 2022

Cursed blade = feared by people. Doesn't say anything about its grade. It could also be ungraded.

It was stated that powerful swords are called cursed for it's power

 

[cleanmrpostman]

Back then Zoro wasn't a master of haki. Therefore he could only do it with Wado for it superiority.

Headcanon

How is Enma a trainning tool? Again, everybody is growing up haki without Enma. Enma is not needed for sure. Zoro always trained without Enma. Mihawk, Shanks, Roger never trained with Enma. He ASKED if he would be stronger. Also he could mean he was just become stronger with Enma mastererd than his previous version without mastering.

I'm not saying Zoro needed it or that Enma's the only way. But Zoro had two years with Shusui, yet he improved more with Enma in a matter of what, weeks? You're in denial.

Zoro IMMEDIATELY state his attacks to be stronger with Shusui.

This was shown more dramatically with Enma.

Killing a dragon is not a crazy feat until Oda shows up that dragon wasa previous DF user of Kaido's DF

This hasn't happened yet, but if it did that'd be great, only makes ZKK more likely. Until then it's your fanfiction