Character Discussion Dark King Rayleigh and King of Hell Zoro, right hand men of the Pirate Kings

#21
Prime example of why people call Sanji fans delusional
Yeah

In the twisted mind of these guys, Zoro and Sanji should be equals because both are Wings, doesn't matter if they have completely different backgrounds, paths, goals, powers, benchmarks, feats

By the same reasoning, I guess that Katakuri = Cracker = Smoothie, because they are mentioned the same as Sweet Commander. I guess that King = Queen = Jack, because they are mentioned the same as All Stars. I guess that there's no strength difference between Law and Apoo, because they are mentioned the same as Supernovas. I guess that there's no strength difference between Kuma and Buggy, because they are mentioned the same as Shichibukai.

Obviously it's not like that, but to see that I suppose that one needs a working brain and to not be morbidly obsessed by yaoi between a green haired guy and a blonde guy. Such horrible fetish.
 
#22
Zoro is a "King" yet he ended up fighting Kaido’s subordinate :suresure::suresure::suresure:
Don’t forget that he fought Kaido to.

Don’t forget the subordinate that Zoro fought was stronger than the subordinate that Sanji fought.

Don’t forget that King was the same subordinate to ask Zoro so you have Kingly ambitions?

Let Zoro have his win be happy with Sanjis Germa shit. If you don’t like it go be a Zoro Yamato or Luffy fan.
 
#24
Yeah

In the twisted mind of these guys, Zoro and Sanji should be equals because both are Wings, doesn't matter if they have completely different backgrounds, paths, goals, powers, benchmarks, feats

By the same reasoning, I guess that Katakuri = Cracker = Smoothie, because they are mentioned the same as Sweet Commander. I guess that King = Queen = Jack, because they are mentioned the same as All Stars. I guess that there's no strength difference between Law and Apoo, because they are mentioned the same as Supernovas. I guess that there's no strength difference between Kuma and Buggy, because they are mentioned the same as Shichibukai.

Obviously it's not like that, but to see that I suppose that one needs a working brain and to not be morbidly obsessed by yaoi between a green haired guy and a blonde guy. Such horrible fetish.
What’s annoying to me is that a lot of Sanji fans (not all but the vast majority) use everything but feats in their scaling of Sanji.

Shit like:

Robin said Zoro and Sanji are wings.

Sanjis kick produced plasma and white lightning that’s ACoC

Queens (not a swordsman) non haki imbued basic sword couldn’t cut Sanji so Zoro can’t cut Sanji.

It’s just disingenuous and not true. Sanji is clearly weaker than Zoro and we can give a million reasons why and they will still try to debate it.
 
#25
Really really interesting. We all thought that "Dark King", Rayleigh's nickname, and "King of Hell", Zoro's nickname, were very similar. But it seems that they are actually the same thing, basically.




:cheers::zosmug:

Big thanks to @T.D.A for noticing and sharing this.

It's the umpteenth parallel shared between Rayleigh and Zoro, as the right hand man of the past Pirate King and the right hand man of the future Pirate King.



With the Wano Arc, Zoro is confirmed to not be just a simple underling, but a king in his own way.
Unlike the other Strawhats, Zoro isn't a mere follower: he is a king who partners with another king.
That's why Zoro and Luffy are referred as PARTNERS. Just like Rayleigh and Roger, obviously.



Remember all those panels where Zoro is thought to be the real captain of the Strawhats? Or where people wonder why he isn't the captain, or why he isn't the captain of his own crew? Now everything makes sense.
That's because Zoro is a CONQUEROR. He is a KING in his own way (King of Swordsmen).
Just like Luffy is a CONQUEROR and a KING in his own way (King of Pirates). The both of them also unlocked Advanced Conqueror Haki, the strongest Haki that Kaido called the power of the strongest ones, the power that "only a handful of the very strongest can", in a world where "Haki... it surpasses all".







Exactly like Rayleigh was a Conqueror and a King just like Roger was a Conqueror and a King.
We have now blatant confirmation that Zoro = Rayleigh and Luffy = Roger
It was obvious, but some people still doubted. It was so comical, and so delusional as well: Rayleigh has blonde hair, Rayleigh likes girls, Rayleigh used kicks... LMAO

Now it's clear as day. Luffy is the Future King of Pirates, the new Gol D Roger, while Zoro is the Future World Strongest Swordsman and the New Generation Dark King, the Right Hand of the King of Pirates, the new Silvers Rayleigh.

Rayleigh is also absolutely confirmed to be a swordsman.



Now all makes sense. Because both of Luffy and Zoro are Conquerors and Kings on their own (not all the Conquerors are also Kings!) like Roger and Rayleigh. Destined to excel to the top of the world, and strong willed enough to do so, unlike the other Strawhats.

Two Kings advancing for their future titles. Two Conquerors who will seat on the top of the world.
They march together in front of the Strawhat crew.



Tell me if doesn't strike as the same of this...



Yeah, it's the same.
A King advancing together with his Dark King.

Making Zoro a Conqueror and a King, but in the meantime someone who as strong and as indipendent as he is still willingly decides to follow someone else, the author showed how great is Zoro's devotion to Luffy.





See? Exactly like Whitebeard wondered how Oden could join him, as he is the kind of guy who leads, not the one who follows others. Also Whitebeard made a reference to the many Conqueror Haki users in Rocks Crew, the same thing to which Kaido will make a reference as well, about how Conqueror Haki users aren't people prone to follow others.



No wonder that then when people see Zoro they immediately think that the swordsman should be the leader of his own crew or the leader of the Strawhat.
But that doesn't matter, Zoro prefers to follow Luffy. Why? Very differently from the others, Zoro's strength is extremely close and comparable to his captain's one. Zoro doesn't follow Luffy out of need, like the others, but because of the spontaneous trust that he has in him.
Even if, as already showed, Zoro is the kind of guy who dominates, not the one who follow others. It's just that his devotion to Luffy is that intense. More than a Right Hand Man, more than a First Mate; more like a brother.



That's also why Oda had the two of them share so many parallels: strength, power ups, backgrounds, goals, benchmarks.







Luffy and Zoro make the best duo ever. Captain and Right Hand Man/Number Two/First Mate, for life.
Like it or not, the amount of different times and different ways where Zoro is put close to Luffy is gargantuan. The sheer number of those comparisons is astonishing, it screams loud, like the absolute absence of the same closeness between Sanji and Luffy, screams loud as well
... but in the opposite way, because there's zero of them.
No wonder that we have this.



You all know that the strongest Strawhat bar Luffy is Zoro. And if by chance you didn't know... Oda just stated this in SBS 102. No equals, no peers, no Wings, no shit... just an undesputable number two which is Zoro, with no one close enough to make this ambiguous.
Zoro who, coincidentally, is also Luffy's Right Hand Man and the only Strawhat whose strength compares to Luffy's, who has similar traits, powers and goals to Luffy; they as a duo of Captain/Number Twos are consistently paralleled with other duos of Captains/Number Twos, and Zoro alone by himself is paralleled to these guys by themselves.
Source? Just click below the SPOILER and enjoy. The amount of material proving this is gargantuan.























@Finalbeta @T.D.A @Zowo @yorosenpai @ConquistadoR @Fenaker @The White Crane @kumae @Geo @Sentinel @Orojackson Refugee @Peroroncino @Redboy776 @Rekien @Sword God Ryuma @nik87 @Manos. AsuraZoro @bennbeckman @mly90 @Akagami Law @style @Sanji D Goat @Marimo_420 @Shishi @Geo @Money D Malio @ShadowStyle369 @matt245
I realize that this is clearly an agenda post, but the only thing that you seem to be arguing here is that Zoro and Luffy have a dynamic and that dynamic gets some moments of focus. Which is true, but that's not any different from Luffy's dynamics with characters like Usopp or Nami or Jimbei
Post automatically merged:

Robin said Zoro and Sanji are wings.
She didn't mention Zoro
She said that Sanji was "the wings of the pirate king." In Japanese, 'wings' is a term that means 'reliable person' so it's debateable if it's supposed to have a deeper meaning or not
 
#26
I realize that this is clearly an agenda post, but the only thing that you seem to be arguing here is that Zoro and Luffy have a dynamic and that dynamic gets some moments of focus. Which is true, but that's not any different from Luffy's dynamics with characters like Usopp or Nami or Jimbei
Post automatically merged:


She didn't mention Zoro
She said that Sanji was "the wings of the pirate king." In Japanese, 'wings' is a term that means 'reliable person' so it's debateable if it's supposed to have a deeper meaning or not
And in Japanese the editor note used the term as well for both when they made a comeback against King And Queen

But that doesn't matter.

Same as the new OPTC Luffy legend has Sanji and Zoro with him called like it
 
#27
What’s annoying to me is that a lot of Sanji fans (not all but the vast majority) use everything but feats in their scaling of Sanji.

Shit like:

Robin said Zoro and Sanji are wings.

Sanjis kick produced plasma and white lightning that’s ACoC

Queens (not a swordsman) non haki imbued basic sword couldn’t cut Sanji so Zoro can’t cut Sanji.

It’s just disingenuous and not true. Sanji is clearly weaker than Zoro and we can give a million reasons why and they will still try to debate it.
Yeah they are like flat earthers

Zoro has so much many more parallels with Luffy than he has with Sanji, and still Zoro isn't as strong as Luffy in spite of all the parallels they share... so imagine how massive is the gap between Zoro and Sanji, who doesn't share much other than gags and "appearing together in some panels"

There are clearly two dynamics.

Luffy - Zoro = The captain and his close right hand man, both Conquerors (only ones in the Strawhats), both Worst Generation Supernovas (only ones in the Strawhats), both with top tier as their benchmarks (only ones in the Strawhats), both with fighting oriented goals (only ones in the Strawhats), both with Advanced Haki (only ones in the Strawhats), both fought YC1s, both fought Yonkos

Zoro - Sanji = The strongest crewmembers, the ones who cover the back of the captain far more than the other crewmembers could ever do

The famed "Wings" thing doesnt' mean anything in terms of strength, like a certain delusional biased fandom would desperately claim. It just refers to volume 73 SBS where Oda stated that both Zoro and Sanji are trustworthy men who cover Luffys's back. Which is, indeed, what they are, nothing more nothing less. Oda could have easily called them rivals or something in that issue, but, face the reality, he chose to not.

And, funny thing, even if he did (which, again, he chose to not do) being rivals doesn't mean anything.
You can bicker like Lucci vs Jabra, Kaku vs Jabra, King vs Queen, Luffy vs Kidd, Shanks vs Buggy, Mr 1 vs Mr 2: these are gag rivalries where people just don't get along or friendly compete. You can have a rivalry that is not friendly and not based on gags but is still far from making the two rivals close or equals, as one of the two is much stronger than the other, like Kidd vs Apoo, Zoro vs Killer, Luffy vs Koby.
The supposed rivalry between Zoro and Sanji is a mix of the two aforementioned situations.

A completely different thing are actual properly said rivalries, like Shanks vs Mihawk, Zoro vs Mihawk, Roger vs Garp, Roger vs Whitebeard, Teach vs Luffy. These are serious strength rivalries where people compete for the pinnacle of strength and/or the same important achievement, and if they fight they would draw of the winner would come out after an extreme diff battle.
 
#28
And in Japanese the editor note used the term as well for both when they made a comeback against King And Queen

But that doesn't matter.

Same as the new OPTC Luffy legend has Sanji and Zoro with him called like it
Like I said. It’s a term that means reliable person. It may or may not have a deeper meaning
But OPTC is a gacha game so I’m not sure why you would bring that up, especially when they’re notorious for being dumb about this kind of thing (Like, in fire emblem heroes a minor antagonist from FE5 got multiple alts before the actual protagonist of the game even got added)
 
#29
Yeah they are like flat earthers

Zoro has so much many more parallels with Luffy than he has with Sanji, and still Zoro isn't as strong as Luffy in spite of all the parallels they share... so imagine how massive is the gap between Zoro and Sanji, who doesn't share much other than gags and "appearing together in some panels"

There are clearly two dynamics.

Luffy - Zoro = The captain and his close right hand man, both Conquerors (only ones in the Strawhats), both Worst Generation Supernovas (only ones in the Strawhats), both with top tier as their benchmarks (only ones in the Strawhats), both with fighting oriented goals (only ones in the Strawhats), both with Advanced Haki (only ones in the Strawhats), both fought YC1s, both fought Yonkos

Zoro - Sanji = The strongest crewmembers, the ones who cover the back of the captain far more than the other crewmembers could ever do

The famed "Wings" thing doesnt' mean anything in terms of strength, like a certain delusional biased fandom would desperately claim. It just refers to volume 73 SBS where Oda stated that both Zoro and Sanji are trustworthy men who cover Luffys's back. Which is, indeed, what they are, nothing more nothing less. Oda could have easily called them rivals or something in that issue, but, face the reality, he chose to not.

And, funny thing, even if he did (which, again, he chose to not do) being rivals doesn't mean anything.
You can bicker like Lucci vs Jabra, Kaku vs Jabra, King vs Queen, Luffy vs Kidd, Shanks vs Buggy, Mr 1 vs Mr 2: these are gag rivalries where people just don't get along or friendly compete. You can have a rivalry that is not friendly and not based on gags but is still far from making the two rivals close or equals, as one of the two is much stronger than the other, like Kidd vs Apoo, Zoro vs Killer, Luffy vs Koby.
The supposed rivalry between Zoro and Sanji is a mix of the two aforementioned situations.

A completely different thing are actual properly said rivalries, like Shanks vs Mihawk, Zoro vs Mihawk, Roger vs Garp, Roger vs Whitebeard, Teach vs Luffy. These are serious strength rivalries where people compete for the pinnacle of strength and/or the same important achievement, and if they fight they would draw of the winner would come out after an extreme diff battle.
This is very true and well written. You should definitely make a thread out of this. I couldn’t have said it any better.
 
#30
I realize that this is clearly an agenda post, but the only thing that you seem to be arguing here is that Zoro and Luffy have a dynamic and that dynamic gets some moments of focus.
I wanted to talk about the blatant parallel between Roger-Rayleigh and Luffy-Zoro, if that's having an agenda as if I was suggesting something doubtful then I dunno, I'm done, I guess I have an agenda if I say that Zoro is a swordsman

Which is true, but that's not any different from Luffy's dynamics with characters like Usopp or Nami or Jimbei
Pal, if you really believe that the Luffy-Zoro dynamics is no different than Luffy's dynamics with the other Strawhats, then I am afraid that you also believe that the Earth is flat
Sorry but that's how it is

No one shares parallels, powers, is close in strength and has a similar behaviour to Luffy like Zoro's, there's not even a comparison here, Zoro is lightyears closer to Luffy in both strength and characterization than the other Strawhats are

Don't make me post 2000 panels to prove

Just this should be enough
Enjoy







This is very true and well written. You should definitely make a thread out of this. I couldn’t have said it any better.
Thank you very much.
I already made a similar thread I think
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...ivals-and-supposed-equals.24768/#post-2722035
 
#31
I wanted to talk about the blatant parallel between Roger-Rayleigh and Luffy-Zoro, if that's having an agenda as if I was suggesting something doubtful then I dunno, I'm done, I guess I have an agenda if I say that Zoro is a swordsman


Pal, if you really believe that the Luffy-Zoro dynamics is no different than Luffy's dynamics with the other Strawhats, then I am afraid that you also believe that the Earth is flat
Sorry but that's how it is

No one shares parallels, powers, is close in strength and has a similar behaviour to Luffy like Zoro's, there's not even a comparison here, Zoro is lightyears closer to Luffy in both strength and characterization than the other Strawhats are

Don't make me post 2000 panels to prove

Just this should be enough
Enjoy








Thank you very much.
I already made a similar thread I think
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...ivals-and-supposed-equals.24768/#post-2722035
I’ll read it today. I also agree with this post.
 
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