Controversial Did Haki always exisit?

[pg13]

You're mistaking me saying that he didn't have it set in stone with an assertion that he didn't have the concept in mind at all.

Thinking about ways to counter logia =/= having Haki figured out. For all of the other examples I can give the most famous one is Shanks in chapter one. Was he thinking of a certain force of will? We can all agree, yes. Was this consistent with Conquerors Haki? No. We know that Shanks was able to imbue with Haki before meeting Luffy. For his Haki to be so strong and have such a weak effect on a very weak creature... no. He probably wasn't even halfway to the concept when he began the series.

Of course he didn’t have the full concept down. But why is it out of the realm of possibility that Crocodile was talking about Haki in that panel?

the series was suppose to end in Alabasta , so it’s possible he did have the concept down,or at the very least the very least the concept of haki countering logia’s. Fn Lucci you realize Mantra was introduced 1 year after Alabasta, which was revealed to be observation haki. If you want to argue Oda didn’t come up with the name for Haki back then that’s fine.Crocs been touched before, Whitebeard touched him all the time. So he knows what Haki is and he knows that people in the world can touch him. Its not as far fetched as you make it out to be.

 

[NicoRobinIsQueen]

Some dude who was jealous of all these devil fruits when they first appeared hated the power difference between people with devil fruits and people with none. So he started experimenting, working for days on end, until he found out haki, a way for average people to be strong without finding a devil fruit

 

[Yoho]

yes,since chapter 1

Haki is a core concept of the One Piece Universe.

It is the human drive to achieve its dreams

I was more asking along the lines of one pieces history itself not within the story we've been following

Like was Haki always a thing or did the rise of devil fruits inspire someone to create in order to combat devil fruits

 

[ArturCantSpeakJapanese]

Of course he didn’t have the full concept down. But why is it out of the realm of possibility that Crocodile was talking about Haki in that panel?

the series was suppose to end in Alabasta , so it’s possible he did have the concept down,or at the very least the very least the concept of haki countering logia’s. Fn Lucci you realize Mantra was introduced 1 year after Alabasta, which was revealed to be observation haki. If you want to argue Oda didn’t come up with the name for Haki back then that’s fine.Crocs been touched before, Whitebeard touched him all the time. So he knows what Haki is and he knows that people in the world can touch him. Its not as far fetched as you make it out to be.

that panel seems very obvious in retrospect to have been about haki. crocodile's face is in panic, as if he's going this kid with a low bounty in paradise has good armament?? he learns it's water on the next page and laughs, he's relieved. If he always thought it was water he wouldn't have looked upset.

haki's relationship with ambition and will just mean that when Crocodile lost to Whitebeard and his dreams of being Pirate King were crushed, he lost his haki. When Miss Golden Week did this, he got his haki back.

 

[ArturCantSpeakJapanese]

i think it's actually very likely that he had the full concept down from chapter 1. the ONLY inconsistency in the depiction of haki is the absence of Armament Hardening before pre-timeskip. this can be handwaved by saying "armament hardening is just one technique, and you happened to not see it" or "you need observation haki to see armament hardening, so Luffy couldnt see it" or something. but that's literally it. it works the same way from chapter 1 to now.

 

[soupongo]

In universe? Yeah, it's just tied to willpower, and probably existed long before the DFs.

In the story? Pretty clearly no. Blackbeard vs Ace strongly implied that the Yami was the only way to consistently injure a Logia in Ace, who was used to avoid getting hit because he was a Logia, despite being a new world pirate. And there isn't even an inverse reason why majority of the Pre TS cast didn't have something, that's so much common place among new world pirates and Marines, especially since.... these pirates do in fact travel around. At the very least, the SHP would logically be familiar with the concept.

 

[Fn Lucci]

Of course he didn’t have the full concept down. But why is it out of the realm of possibility that Crocodile was talking about Haki in that panel?

Because the answer was already on panel

Spoiler

Your suggestion involves Crocodile forgetting that this happened and automatically suspecting that the rookie pirate who just completely failed against him is now able to wield Haki. That Oda thought so deeply in such an early moment, but then brought Crocodile back and had him watch that same DF he'd fought against get negated without considering the possibility of Haki

Spoiler

the series was suppose to end in Alabasta

Absolutely not true. By 1998, it had already become impossible to wrap up the series in 25 volumes. There's no way to think Shichibukai and the Grandline were introduced with Oda planning to wrap up within five or six years. Nevermind the idea of Alabasta itself being the finale.

In universe? Yeah, it's just tied to willpower, and probably existed long before the DFs.

In the story? Pretty clearly no. Blackbeard vs Ace strongly implied that the Yami was the only way to consistently injure a Logia in Ace, who was used to avoid getting hit because he was a Logia, despite being a new world pirate. And there isn't even an inverse reason why majority of the Pre TS cast didn't have something, that's so much common place among new world pirates and Marines, especially since.... these pirates do in fact travel around. At the very least, the SHP would logically be familiar with the concept.

Right? There's no way to see the massive plot hole of CP9 using Haki and think that Oda had satisfied his objective

 

[Kumathegoat]

I was more asking along the lines of one pieces history itself not within the story we've been following

Like was Haki always a thing or did the rise of devil fruits inspire someone to create in order to combat devil fruits

I see. I think it is inate to human history in the One Piexe World. It is the human Will / Geist / determination / drive to achieve dreams and goals.

It should precede the Devil Fruits

 

[MUUGEN]

As I get home from work and strip down to my scivvies a question dawned upon me

Did Haki always exist or was it created in response to Devil Fruits?

And if it was created in response to Devil fruits? Who first used Haki?

Joyboy or Davy Jones perhaps?

its existed since Romance Dawn with Shanks & again with luffy vs croc, croc hints at it here:

 

[MUUGEN]

Absolutely not true. By 1998, it had already become impossible to wrap up the series in 25 volumes. There's no way to think Shichibukai and the Grandline were introduced with Oda planning to wrap up within five or six years. Nevermind the idea of Alabasta itself being the finale.

that was the actual plan though with Croc being the main antagonist... Shichibukai were supposed to be >Yonkos

 

[Fn Lucci]

that was the actual plan though with Croc being the main antagonist... Shichibukai were supposed to be >Yonkos

That doesn't make sense. First of all, Yonko didn't exist, but Shanks did and he wasn't touched by then. Crocodile was introduced as one of seven. Mihawk was one of the same seven. You think Zoro vowed to "never lose again" for like two fights before the rematch? One of those two being that fucking squid bum.

I mean surely you have a source, right?

 

[soupongo]

that was the actual plan though with Croc being the main antagonist... Shichibukai were supposed to be >Yonkos

Other way around, Warlords were added later on, while the emperors were the original plan. It was something like, 1 year in the east blue, 2 years in the grand line, and 2 in the new world. Crocodile was coincidentally finished off into about 5 years into the manga, but Alabasta itself set up future plotlines with Ace and the Marines. Though Oda likely imagined the manga being somewhat close to done back then.

https://japantoday.com/category/ent...tended-the-series-far-longer-than-he-intended

 

[MUUGEN]

That doesn't make sense. First of all, Yonko didn't exist, but Shanks did and he wasn't touched by then. Crocodile was introduced as one of seven. Mihawk was one of the same seven. You think Zoro vowed to "never lose again" for like two fights before the rematch? One of those two being that fucking squid bum.

I mean surely you have a source, right?

 

[Fn Lucci]

This guy agrees with me lol. I ready to say that he himself doesn't source, but he's not even saying anything beyond what we see.

 

[MUUGEN]

This guy agrees with me lol. I ready to say that he himself doesn't source, but he's not even saying anything beyond what we see.

just google odas original plan for OP hes literally stated himsef and its a well known fact, nothing new.

https://gamerant.com/one-piece-eiichiro-oda-reveals-original-plans-one-piece-ending/

 

[Toby D. Dog]

haki is probably just an innate ability for all living beings in the One Piece world. it wasn't created, more like discovered.

 

[BoaHancocksHusband]

As I get home from work and strip down to my scivvies a question dawned upon me

Did Haki always exist or was it created in response to Devil Fruits?

And if it was created in response to Devil fruits? Who first used Haki?

Joyboy or Davy Jones perhaps?

Oda created Haki after Sabaody

 

[Yoho]

Oda created Haki after Sabaody

I meant more in the lore of one piece not when oda decided to introduce it

Everyone talks about the origins of devil fruits, where do devil fruits come from, who had what fruit etc etc but no one ever really asks about the origins of Haki

Does he predate devil fruits?

Was it made in response to the rise of devil fruit users

And if it always existed who first realized they had it ?

The origins of Haki is a mystery no one really talks about

 

[Toby D. Dog]

Oda created Haki after Sabaody

Haki has been a thing since Jaya.

 

[Fn Lucci]

just google odas original plan for OP hes literally stated himsef and its a well known fact, nothing new.

https://gamerant.com/one-piece-eiichiro-oda-reveals-original-plans-one-piece-ending/

Here is sandman's translation of what Oda said in the 23rd Log:
"I haven't finished ONE PIECE yet despite the 20-year-serialization. The main reason is these guys (Shichibukai).
At first, I intended to finish ONE PIECE in 5 years. It was supposed to be a story to fight against pirates called Yonkou. However, I came up with the idea of Shichibukai... I just thought, 'It would be badass if these characters showed up'. Then as you can see, it caused this long serialization!!

Why didn't I make them Gobukai or Nibukai!! (TN: "Go" means 5, "Ni" means 2 and "Shichi" as in Shichibukai means 7 in Japanese.) I thought 7 was a cool number!! That being said, I don't regret it since I drew what I wanted. ...I'm regretting a bit!!"
And here are some false claims, found nowhere in this statement:

the series was suppose to end in Alabasta ,

Croc being the main antagonist...

Shichibukai were supposed to be >Yonkos

Do you know what ">" means? This is especially egregious because
1. The whole suggestion that Crocodile was a bigger antagonist than he ended up being ignores the fact that they are the OUKA Shichibukai. This means that by the time they were introduced to the series as a concept, we knew that there was someone above them
2. The Yonko are Shanks' class and at the very least, we know that Shanks was reserved for the end of the story. The idea that Haki was Oda's way of dealing with Logia doesn't work because none of the pirates in Shanks' class, or the one under it because we know Joker was originally more important than Doflamingo became, were Logias or necessarily had to be solved by Haki. Blackbeard takes regular damage and in the case of Kaido, I hope you can at least understand that CoC was an ass pull of an idea.

There are some contradictions in the fan narrative being related here that I might be forgetting but again, the main thing is the intent and execution of Haki throughout the series