Using a sword is not the same as mastering a sword
According to Koushiro Zoro wasn't even using Wado Ichimonji as an actual sword until Alabasta. According to Koushiro Zoro was swinging around a sharp piece of metal and not an actual sword.
Zoro was not shown mastering Shusui, Sandai or Yubashiri on screen.
Of course he ended up mastering Sandai and Yubashiri since he can cut steel with them pre ts so he was able to make them into actual swords at some point OFF SCREEN.
With Shusui Zoro specfically says Shusui is more troublesome than the rest and he says "It will be a pain to master". Then Zoro was not shown having mastered Shusui until post time skip
Getting used to swords is not the same as mastering them.
The reason why Zoro's test to show that he can control Enma is to cut a tree and nothing else is because being able to make Enma cut only what Zoro wants to cut is what proves Zoro has mastered a sword. So when Enma can pass across a pice of paper and NOT cut it is when he has mastered Enma or any sword
According to Koushiro Zoro wasn't even using Wado Ichimonji as an actual sword until Alabasta. According to Koushiro Zoro was swinging around a sharp piece of metal and not an actual sword.
Zoro was not shown mastering Shusui, Sandai or Yubashiri on screen.
Of course he ended up mastering Sandai and Yubashiri since he can cut steel with them pre ts so he was able to make them into actual swords at some point OFF SCREEN.
With Shusui Zoro specfically says Shusui is more troublesome than the rest and he says "It will be a pain to master". Then Zoro was not shown having mastered Shusui until post time skip
Getting used to swords is not the same as mastering them.
The reason why Zoro's test to show that he can control Enma is to cut a tree and nothing else is because being able to make Enma cut only what Zoro wants to cut is what proves Zoro has mastered a sword. So when Enma can pass across a pice of paper and NOT cut it is when he has mastered Enma or any sword
Using a sword is not the same as mastering a sword
According to Koushiro Zoro wasn't even using Wado Ichimonji as an actual sword until Alabasta. According to Koushiro Zoro was swinging around a sharp piece of metal and not an actual sword.
Zoro was not shown mastering Shusui, Sandai or Yubashiri on screen.
Of course he ended up mastering Sandai and Yubashiri since he can cut steel with them pre ts so he was able to make them into actual swords at some point OFF SCREEN.
With Shusui Zoro specfically says Shusui is more troublesome than the rest and he says "It will be a pain to master". Then Zoro was not shown having mastered Shusui until post time skip
Getting used to swords is not the same as mastering them.
The reason why Zoro's test to show that he can control Enma is to cut a tree and nothing else is because being able to make Enma cut only what Zoro wants to cut is what proves Zoro has mastered a sword. So when Enma can pass across a pice of paper and NOT cut it is when he has mastered Enma or any sword
According to Koushiro Zoro wasn't even using Wado Ichimonji as an actual sword until Alabasta. According to Koushiro Zoro was swinging around a sharp piece of metal and not an actual sword.
Zoro was not shown mastering Shusui, Sandai or Yubashiri on screen.
Of course he ended up mastering Sandai and Yubashiri since he can cut steel with them pre ts so he was able to make them into actual swords at some point OFF SCREEN.
With Shusui Zoro specfically says Shusui is more troublesome than the rest and he says "It will be a pain to master". Then Zoro was not shown having mastered Shusui until post time skip
Getting used to swords is not the same as mastering them.
The reason why Zoro's test to show that he can control Enma is to cut a tree and nothing else is because being able to make Enma cut only what Zoro wants to cut is what proves Zoro has mastered a sword. So when Enma can pass across a pice of paper and NOT cut it is when he has mastered Enma or any sword
I want to know what you think mastering a sword is. Its not breath of all things as that's just mastery of swordsmanship in op. If zoro can take away any negative traits of a sword and perfectly balance all 3 of his swords then he mastered them. Shusui wasn't absorbing the other slashes into its own. Sandai wasn't cutting whatever it wanted. Yabashiri was mastered at the same time of sandai. They were balanced together with wado without 1 doing anything other than what zoro wanted the swords to do. And by the time we see zoro have his full fight i expect zoro to have most if not full control of the amount of haki emna draws. Again zoro always mastered swords in a matter of days at most which he's already had with enma.
M
I don't disagree with the information
Tenguyama isn't lying.
Let's get the exact wording
He's talking about Zoro handling Enma easily because he has experience with a similar sword.
As in Zoro has ALREADY GOTTEN THE EXPERIENCE FROM WADO ICHIMONJI.
Like the moment Zoro mastered Wado Ichimonji after 10 years of using it in Alabasta, Zoro had gained the experience of mastering a sword similar to Enma.
When I replied initially talking about Kin'emon I said it's hard for you to conflate Zoro and Kin'emon since its possible Kin'emon required 20 years instead of Zoro's 10 years to reach the level Zoro was at in Alabasta with Wado Ichimonji.
Then I said "Wado Ichimonji does nothing. It's Zoro who does things".. As in Zoro right now has the experience from mastering Wado 2 years ago. He doesn't lose the experience when Wado Ichimonji is taken away from him so Wado Ichimonji is not doing anything. It just happened to be similar to Enma.
Tenguyama isn't lying.
Let's get the exact wording
He's talking about Zoro handling Enma easily because he has experience with a similar sword.
As in Zoro has ALREADY GOTTEN THE EXPERIENCE FROM WADO ICHIMONJI.
Like the moment Zoro mastered Wado Ichimonji after 10 years of using it in Alabasta, Zoro had gained the experience of mastering a sword similar to Enma.
When I replied initially talking about Kin'emon I said it's hard for you to conflate Zoro and Kin'emon since its possible Kin'emon required 20 years instead of Zoro's 10 years to reach the level Zoro was at in Alabasta with Wado Ichimonji.
Then I said "Wado Ichimonji does nothing. It's Zoro who does things".. As in Zoro right now has the experience from mastering Wado 2 years ago. He doesn't lose the experience when Wado Ichimonji is taken away from him so Wado Ichimonji is not doing anything. It just happened to be similar to Enma.
So, I am unclear about your answer.
You see the answer indicates how important the info stated by Tenguyama really is. I believe that the info is not important because I believe that Zoro having Wado didn't didn't influence his ability to tame Enma (similar to how Oden didn't need it).
That leaves me to the second conclusion: the build up was not about providing that info. The build up was not about the swords.
This leaves me to the third conclusion: Oda DIDN'T bring up Kouzaburo to link Wado to Enma, rather he linked Wado to Enma so that he could bring up Kouzaburo into the story.
Which leads me to the final conclusion: The mention of Kouzaburo is not for swords but to explain some aspects of the story like presence of a Shimotsuki village in EB, Koshiro and Kuina, and may be something related to Zoro.
According to Koushiro. Wado Ichimonji WAS NOT A SWORD at all until Zoro made it cut ONLY WHAT HE WANTED IT TO CUT.
Note that there is no closer definition of what mastering a sword is in the whole series.
I'm trying my best to use Actual panels than trying to "reason" with head canon.
Enma failed to cut ONLY WHAT ZORO WANTED TO CUT so that proves that Zoro hasn't mastered Enma. When Enma cuts that tree and only that tree, Zoro will have mastered it. Again According to Koushiro, a blade isn't even a sword until you manage to do this
Note that there is no closer definition of what mastering a sword is in the whole series.
I'm trying my best to use Actual panels than trying to "reason" with head canon.
Enma failed to cut ONLY WHAT ZORO WANTED TO CUT so that proves that Zoro hasn't mastered Enma. When Enma cuts that tree and only that tree, Zoro will have mastered it. Again According to Koushiro, a blade isn't even a sword until you manage to do this
Using a sword is not the same as mastering a sword
According to Koushiro Zoro wasn't even using Wado Ichimonji as an actual sword until Alabasta. According to Koushiro Zoro was swinging around a sharp piece of metal and not an actual sword.
Zoro was not shown mastering Shusui, Sandai or Yubashiri on screen.
Of course he ended up mastering Sandai and Yubashiri since he can cut steel with them pre ts so he was able to make them into actual swords at some point OFF SCREEN.
With Shusui Zoro specfically says Shusui is more troublesome than the rest and he says "It will be a pain to master". Then Zoro was not shown having mastered Shusui until post time skip
Getting used to swords is not the same as mastering them.
The reason why Zoro's test to show that he can control Enma is to cut a tree and nothing else is because being able to make Enma cut only what Zoro wants to cut is what proves Zoro has mastered a sword. So when Enma can pass across a pice of paper and NOT cut it is when he has mastered Enma or any sword
According to Koushiro Zoro wasn't even using Wado Ichimonji as an actual sword until Alabasta. According to Koushiro Zoro was swinging around a sharp piece of metal and not an actual sword.
Zoro was not shown mastering Shusui, Sandai or Yubashiri on screen.
Of course he ended up mastering Sandai and Yubashiri since he can cut steel with them pre ts so he was able to make them into actual swords at some point OFF SCREEN.
With Shusui Zoro specfically says Shusui is more troublesome than the rest and he says "It will be a pain to master". Then Zoro was not shown having mastered Shusui until post time skip
Getting used to swords is not the same as mastering them.
The reason why Zoro's test to show that he can control Enma is to cut a tree and nothing else is because being able to make Enma cut only what Zoro wants to cut is what proves Zoro has mastered a sword. So when Enma can pass across a pice of paper and NOT cut it is when he has mastered Enma or any sword
My guy you are confusing a step in swordsmanship a swordsman can take with mastering a sword. Breath of all things is a sword technique that allows swordsmen better control over what they cut not a key to mastering a sword. Koushiro said nothing of zoro or wado but a step in swordsmanship and what a swordsman can accomplish. YOU are equating this to saying zoro didn't master a sword he had since he was a kid which makes no sense.
Note he has swords completely under his control and none do any negative traits they had while being balanced together. What the hell else is mastering if not this? That's like saying luffy didn't master g2 by getting rid of it's stamina draining negative trait just cuz mastering g2 was never noted in the series.
No you are taking some panels and applying what YOU BELIEVE to them. All the panels talk about is swordsmen and swordsmanship but YOU turn this into zoro not mastering swords. This was never stated in the panels but you make it this.
Dude what are you saying? Who said zoro mastered emna once he got it? I said I expect zoro to mostly if not fully control the amount of haki enma takes out by the time he fights who ever he fights this arc cuz he's had days with it. This would be mastering enma would it not? Just like zoro controlling shusui power or sandai cutting whatever it wanted. Are those not mastering swords? Where in this does what I said show enma was mastered when he tried to cut a tree and he didn't even know what enma did? Also just so you know koushiro isn't a god of swords and his word isn't law as that's just what he believes. BM never show she knows breath of all things but are you gonna say she hasn't mastered napoleon just cuz of what kyoshrio believes. No you shouldn't cuz what he says doesn't have to apply to everyone cuz everyone doesn't view swordsmanship as he does. Another case is kaku who legs count as his swords so how could anyone apply koushiro words to legs? Or are you gonna say kaku hasn't mastered his own body?
Note he has swords completely under his control and none do any negative traits they had while being balanced together. What the hell else is mastering if not this? That's like saying luffy didn't master g2 by getting rid of it's stamina draining negative trait just cuz mastering g2 was never noted in the series.
No you are taking some panels and applying what YOU BELIEVE to them. All the panels talk about is swordsmen and swordsmanship but YOU turn this into zoro not mastering swords. This was never stated in the panels but you make it this.
Dude what are you saying? Who said zoro mastered emna once he got it? I said I expect zoro to mostly if not fully control the amount of haki enma takes out by the time he fights who ever he fights this arc cuz he's had days with it. This would be mastering enma would it not? Just like zoro controlling shusui power or sandai cutting whatever it wanted. Are those not mastering swords? Where in this does what I said show enma was mastered when he tried to cut a tree and he didn't even know what enma did? Also just so you know koushiro isn't a god of swords and his word isn't law as that's just what he believes. BM never show she knows breath of all things but are you gonna say she hasn't mastered napoleon just cuz of what kyoshrio believes. No you shouldn't cuz what he says doesn't have to apply to everyone cuz everyone doesn't view swordsmanship as he does. Another case is kaku who legs count as his swords so how could anyone apply koushiro words to legs? Or are you gonna say kaku hasn't mastered his own body?
Its not a step according to Koushiro.
Koushiro says "A blade that cuts anything isn't a sword"
He doesn't say there's a middle ground. Until Zoro does this, he's not actually using a sword.
Let's make it simple. Provide a panel in the manga with which you can argue an alternate take on this
Like I can see you are trying to "reason" this and thats fine. But thats all YOUR HEADCANON until you can provide a panel backing it up.
(And if you don't have panel then tell me situation and I'll go fetch the panel)
Until then I'm taking the manga over your opinion on this
Koushiro says "A blade that cuts anything isn't a sword"
He doesn't say there's a middle ground. Until Zoro does this, he's not actually using a sword.
Let's make it simple. Provide a panel in the manga with which you can argue an alternate take on this
Like I can see you are trying to "reason" this and thats fine. But thats all YOUR HEADCANON until you can provide a panel backing it up.
(And if you don't have panel then tell me situation and I'll go fetch the panel)
Until then I'm taking the manga over your opinion on this
My guy koushiro whole lecture was about how a swordsman can be better. This is a step for swordsmen to be better swordsmen. You are acting like kyoshrio has to say this word for word for it to be fact when he was giving a teaching moment to kid zoro. So unless you think kyoshiro thought kid zoro was a master swordsman then breath of all things was a step in swordsmanship and the next was obviously CoA haki.
My guy what in the world are talking about. Kyoshrio is not the god of swords. His saying a sword that cuts anything isn't a sword doesn't just mean years of training and handling a sword to the point it negative traits are gone meant nothing. What kyoshrio believes has no hold over the entire op world. Stop acting like it does and then on top of this bending his words to what YOU believe.
I don't need a panel there's common sense which is why you couldn't even counter bm or kaku points. Using what you believe kaku didn't master his own body despite him being both a swords master and martial arts master. But he doesn't have control over his legs according to you right?
Dude its using panels. Where anywhere did sandai cut whatever it wanted after logue town? No where so he master the sword. Where does shusui overpower the other sword slash past thriller bark? No where so he mastered it. Where was wado ever even shown to be a problem for zoro who was considered a master swordsman in east blue? No where so he mastered it some point when he was a kid till when we got introduced to him. Where was yabashiri ever a problem for zoro? No where so he mastered it in about the same time he mastered sandai since he got them both at the same time.
You have yet to show how a swordsmanship technique meant mastering a sword. All breath of all things does is allow better control over what a swordsman wants to cut. This is it this is all it does and where does this say years of training with a sword or completely negating a swords traits mean nothing? What kyoshrio believe means nothing. Want me to post gin saying krieg was the strongest pirate and then act like its a fact the op world has to bend to cuz gin thought so?
My guy what in the world are talking about. Kyoshrio is not the god of swords. His saying a sword that cuts anything isn't a sword doesn't just mean years of training and handling a sword to the point it negative traits are gone meant nothing. What kyoshrio believes has no hold over the entire op world. Stop acting like it does and then on top of this bending his words to what YOU believe.
I don't need a panel there's common sense which is why you couldn't even counter bm or kaku points. Using what you believe kaku didn't master his own body despite him being both a swords master and martial arts master. But he doesn't have control over his legs according to you right?
Dude its using panels. Where anywhere did sandai cut whatever it wanted after logue town? No where so he master the sword. Where does shusui overpower the other sword slash past thriller bark? No where so he mastered it. Where was wado ever even shown to be a problem for zoro who was considered a master swordsman in east blue? No where so he mastered it some point when he was a kid till when we got introduced to him. Where was yabashiri ever a problem for zoro? No where so he mastered it in about the same time he mastered sandai since he got them both at the same time.
You have yet to show how a swordsmanship technique meant mastering a sword. All breath of all things does is allow better control over what a swordsman wants to cut. This is it this is all it does and where does this say years of training with a sword or completely negating a swords traits mean nothing? What kyoshrio believe means nothing. Want me to post gin saying krieg was the strongest pirate and then act like its a fact the op world has to bend to cuz gin thought so?