Do you think Ryo Fui would have been better ruler ?

H

Homelander

#1
Instead of this endless war Ei sei pursues to unite china , Dont you think Ryu Fui's method works better less war and better relationships using money .

I am pretty sure many will say Ei sei set out to unite china for noble cause isnt he less of a murderer like Mao or Stalin and let people be fodder in the war .

Your balanced piece ?
 

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
.
#2
Uniting (dominating) countries by using money can work.

We can see in real world that money, exchange, reliance between countries can bring peace.

It was the Europe idea after the WW2 : to unite Europe the first step was to unite their economy, and promote exchange between them. For exemple with argricultural policy, or steel / charcoal deal.
And it worked.

But in Ryo idea he wanted Qin to dominate the others through economy and money.

This can also work : if other states are too much reliant (food, tools, clothings etc) and your are much richer you can dominate them. Also Ryo wanted Qin to export Qin culture and to dominate via cultural leadership, this can work too.

I think Ryo way is not at all impossible and can work.
 

Fleet Admiral Lee Hung

Unto Greater Heights
.
#3
The manga goes out of its way to refute Ryofui’s method of leadership. Ryofui himself admitted that uniting China was impossible, and that his method only strives to bring about peace with the other states.

His method might have worked for a few decades but would’ve ultimately lead to peasant revolts and ultimately Ryofui’s head would’ve wound up on a stick. Assuming the other states didn’t get tired of the peace and raise armies against him first. Ryofui would’ve lead to the destruction of Qin in the long run, most likely.
 
#4
Instead of this endless war Ei sei pursues to unite china , Dont you think Ryu Fui's method works better less war and better relationships using money.

I am pretty sure many will say Ei sei set out to unite china for noble cause isnt he less of a murderer like Mao or Stalin and let people be fodder in the war .

Your balanced piece ?
You seriously need to reread Chapters 423 through to 427 if you think Ryofui’s method actually would have ended the Warring State period.

Here is a link to a complete Chapter list.
Not to worry though, I will still kindly break it down for you. :cheers:

Firstly, not even Ryofui himself believes his method will actually stop warfare so his goal could not possibly work better at uniting China since it was never intended to do that.

So it is most strange to believe that Ryofui’s method would have worked over Sei’s method considering it was never designed to do so by even it’s own inventor.

Secondly, Sei completely destroys Ryofui by pointing out that his method of governance will never be anything more than of collection of bureaucrats that will ultimately achieve nothing beyond maintaining the current status quo of endless conflict.

Thirdly, Ryofui can never be an effective man of the people because at his core he has given up on mankind itself. Through this mindset, any and all possible efforts he could take to make any progress towards improving the situation humanity is currently in, are doomed to fail because he inherently believes mankind can never improve.

Lastly, we need to address something.
Instead of this endless war Ei sei pursues to unite china , Dont you think Ryu Fui's method works better less war and better relationships using money .
Firstly, it cannot be an endless war that Ei Sei pursues since if he is successful then there will literally be no one left to war against within China.

Secondly, there is a misconception that if one chooses to do nothing (i.e. take no action) then they are not responsible for anything (i.e. a consequence) that occurs as a result of taking no action.

This is a lie.

To do nothing is to make a decision. All actions have reactions but all decisions have consequences.

If Sei decides to do nothing more than stay behind his own borders then he is making a conscious decision to allow the Warring State period to continue unchecked, resulting in the deaths of millions/billions/trillions.

As Sei himself states.
Ei Sei can either chose to do everything in his power to unite China, which would result in the inevitable deaths of hundreds of thousands to potentially millions but ultimately end war within China or he can stay behind his borders and allow hundreds of millions to billions or potentially even more, to die through never ending war.

Throughout the manga, there have been individuals that balk at the idea of unifying China through martial might in order to end war, yet their alternatives (if they even have one) are subsequently logically torn apart by Ei Sei as being a temporary solution at the absolute best (e.g. Riboku’s grand alliance proposal) or not even a true solution at worst (e.g. Ryofui’s economic utopia proposal).

Edit: MangaSee images do not permanently stay on posts within this forum, so I am replacing any that are in my posts.
 
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H

Homelander

#5
You seriously need to reread Chapters 423 through to 427 if you think Ryofui’s method actually would have ended the Warring State period.

Here is a link to a complete Chapter list.
Not to worry though, I will still kindly break it down for you. :cheers:

Firstly, not even Ryofui himself believes his method will actually stop warfare so his goal could not possibly work better at uniting China since it was never intended to do that.

So it is most strange to believe that Ryofui’s method would have worked over Sei’s method considering it was never designed to do so by even it’s own inventor.

Secondly, Sei completely destroys Ryofui by pointing out that his method of governance will never be anything more than of collection of bureaucrats that will ultimately achieve nothing beyond maintaining the current status quo of endless conflict.

Thirdly, Ryofui can never be an effective man of the people because at his core he has given up on mankind itself. Through this mindset, any and all possible efforts he could take to make any progress towards improving the situation humanity is currently in, are doomed to fail because he inherently believes mankind can never improve.

Lastly, we need to address something.

Firstly, it cannot be an endless war that Ei Sei pursues since if he is successful then there will literally be no one left to war against within China.

Secondly, there is a misconception that if one chooses to do nothing (i.e. take no action) then they are not responsible for anything (i.e. a consequence) that occurs as a result of taking no action.

This is a lie.

To do nothing is to make a decision. All actions have reactions but all decisions have consequences.

If Sei decides to do nothing more than stay behind his own borders then he is making a conscious decision to allow the Warring State period to continue unchecked, resulting in the deaths of millions/billions/trillions.

As Sei himself states.
Ei Sei can either chose to do everything in his power to unite China, which would result in the inevitable deaths of hundreds of thousands to potentially millions but ultimately end war within China or he can stay behind his borders and allow hundreds of millions to billions or potentially even more, to die through never ending war.

Throughout the manga, there have been individuals that balk at the idea of unifying China through martial might in order to end war, yet their alternatives (if they even have one) are subsequently logically torn apart by Ei Sei as being a temporary solution at the absolute best (e.g. Riboku’s grand alliance proposal) or not even a true solution at worst (e.g. Ryofui’s economic utopia proposal).
I disagree on this below points , We are looking at myopic scope isnt Soviet union built on blood . Ei sei is nothing but cold blooded murderer the people in manga supporting him are nothing but gangster in disguise , our generation are blessed not to see how countries got unified but the cost of all in this is blood . Ei sei is no different than the current rulers who think endless war can be stopped by unifying the nation its no different than Ottoman Empire later broke up and Greece got it nation back .

Though Chinese history make Ei sei a nice guy overall we are talking of war that needs sacrifice of 100,000 + people . Unifying nation comes cost with the blood .

My man there are lost records the real life ruler killed so many people to unite China it was said to be literally bloodbath .We all have different opinion when we talk "warring state " there was no structured economy back then . A strong economy is required to unite the nation .Ryu Fui was capitalist to core and i am not sure how it would work out we are looking at what if situation here .

Maybe we should look at point why war was even happening ? Food , water was essential thing back then China was suffering from huge famine back then in BC . Gullible are poor peasant they are foot soldiers with no choice because they have no other choice .
 
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H

Homelander

#6
The manga goes out of its way to refute Ryofui’s method of leadership. Ryofui himself admitted that uniting China was impossible, and that his method only strives to bring about peace with the other states.

His method might have worked for a few decades but would’ve ultimately lead to peasant revolts and ultimately Ryofui’s head would’ve wound up on a stick. Assuming the other states didn’t get tired of the peace and raise armies against him first. Ryofui would’ve lead to the destruction of Qin in the long run, most likely.
Peasent would rebel if they have no money , War brings profits to kingdom . Like i said there was no clear structure of how Economy can work in the nation back then because Kings believed war was the only solution to their countries problems .

We are again looking at a time were war was fought primarily for basic essentials if i am correct . We have to dig deep why kingdm waged war ? Natural resources are the prime reason if people dont distribute wealth among each other war will break out .

Our current world works on Globalization , shared wealth is distributed we get import and export our natural resource . Isnt Ryu fui said same thing hope i am wrong?
 
#7
I disagree on this below points , We are looking at myopic scope isnt Soviet union built on blood . Ei sei is nothing but clood blooded murderer . Ei sei is no different than the current rulers who think endless war can be stopped by unifying the nation its no different than Ottoman Empire later broke up and Greece got it nation back .

Though Chinese history make Ei sei a nice guy overall we are talking of war that needs sacrifice of 100,000 + people . Unifying nation comes cost with the blood .
This is a complete straw man post. :rolaugh:
What your first post was about.
Instead of this endless war Ei sei pursues to unite china , Dont you think Ryu Fui's method works better less war and better relationships using money .
“Does Ryofui’s method for dealing with the Warring State period work better than Ei Sei’s”.

Answer as provided by the literal manga itself.
You seriously need to reread Chapters 423 through to 427 if you think Ryofui’s method actually would have ended the Warring State period.

Here is a link to a complete Chapter list.
Not to worry though, I will still kindly break it down for you. :cheers:

Firstly, not even Ryofui himself believes his method will actually stop warfare so his goal could not possibly work better at uniting China since it was never intended to do that.

So it is most strange to believe that Ryofui’s method would have worked over Sei’s method considering it was never designed to do so by even it’s own inventor.

Secondly, Sei completely destroys Ryofui by pointing out that his method of governance will never be anything more than of collection of bureaucrats that will ultimately achieve nothing beyond maintaining the current status quo of endless conflict.

Thirdly, Ryofui can never be an effective man of the people because at his core he has given up on mankind itself. Through this mindset, any and all possible efforts he could take to make any progress towards improving the situation humanity is currently in, are doomed to fail because he inherently believes mankind can never improve.

Lastly, we need to address something.

Firstly, it cannot be an endless war that Ei Sei pursues since if he is successful then there will literally be no one left to war against within China.

Secondly, there is a misconception that if one chooses to do nothing (i.e. take no action) then they are not responsible for anything (i.e. a consequence) that occurs as a result of taking no action.

This is a lie.

To do nothing is to make a decision. All actions have reactions but all decisions have consequences.

If Sei decides to do nothing more than stay behind his own borders then he is making a conscious decision to allow the Warring State period to continue unchecked, resulting in the deaths of millions/billions/trillions.

As Sei himself states.
Ei Sei can either chose to do everything in his power to unite China, which would result in the inevitable deaths of hundreds of thousands to potentially millions but ultimately end war within China or he can stay behind his borders and allow hundreds of millions to billions or potentially even more, to die through never ending war.

Throughout the manga, there have been individuals that balk at the idea of unifying China through martial might in order to end war, yet their alternatives (if they even have one) are subsequently logically torn apart by Ei Sei as being a temporary solution at the absolute best (e.g. Riboku’s grand alliance proposal) or not even a true solution at worst (e.g. Ryofui’s economic utopia proposal).
No, no it absolutely does not.

What this post is about.
I disagree on this below points , We are looking at myopic scope isnt Soviet union built on blood . Ei sei is nothing but cold blooded murderer the people supporting him are nothing but gangster in disguise our generation are blessed not to see how countries get unified but the cost of all in this is blood . Ei sei is no different than the current rulers who think endless war can be stopped by unifying the nation its no different than Ottoman Empire later broke up and Greece got it nation back .

Though Chinese history make Ei sei a nice guy overall we are talking of war that needs sacrifice of 100,000 + people . Unifying nation comes cost with the blood .
“Is Ei Sei evil based upon my own perception of morality?”

Absolute off topic, completely subjective, straw man. :sanmoji:

I have noticed you have this obsession with lambasting Ei Sei while simultaneously elevating other mass murderers such as Riboku (who was going to wipe off an entire state off the map and even brought along Mangoku the Slaughterer to assist him) and Ryofui (who made a plan that involved mass casualties of Kanyou City’s citizens) to somehow be his moral superiors.

Either they are all evil or they are all not. The crime is mass murder, the numbers are irrelevant.
 
H

Homelander

#8
Uniting (dominating) countries by using money can work.

We can see in real world that money, exchange, reliance between countries can bring peace.

It was the Europe idea after the WW2 : to unite Europe the first step was to unite their economy, and promote exchange between them. For exemple with argricultural policy, or steel / charcoal deal.
And it worked.

But in Ryo idea he wanted Qin to dominate the others through economy and money.

This can also work : if other states are too much reliant (food, tools, clothings etc) and your are much richer you can dominate them. Also Ryo wanted Qin to export Qin culture and to dominate via cultural leadership, this can work too.

I think Ryo way is not at all impossible and can work.
Europeon Union is your answer ;)

I would agree Ryo fui wanted to hold Qin Cultures dominance would deter other countries to descent into war but it worked in Europe we dont see German culture destroying french or italian . This is off topic but i think Ryu fui actually works if other nation cooperates .
 
#9
Europeon Union is your answer ;)

I would agree Ryo fui wanted to hold Qin Cultures dominance would deter other countries to descent into war but it worked in Europe we dont see German culture destroying french or italian . This is off topic but i think Ryu fui actually works if other nation cooperates .
Which is exactly where his entire idea falls flat on it’s face.
It was never a solution to ending the Warring State period.

Edit: MangaSee images do not permanently stay on posts within this forum, so I am replacing any that are in my posts.
 
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H

Homelander

#10
This is a complete straw man post. :rolaugh:
What your first post was about.

“Does Ryofui’s method for dealing with the Warring State period work better than Ei Sei’s”.

Answer as provided by the literal manga itself.

No, no it absolutely does not.

What this post is about.

“Is Ei Sei evil based upon my own perception of morality?”

Absolute off topic, completely subjective, straw man. :sanmoji:

I have noticed you have this obsession with lambasting Ei Sei while simultaneously elevating other mass murderers such as Riboku (who was going to wipe off an entire state off the map and even brought along Mangoku the Slaughterer to assist him) and Ryofui (who made a plan that involved mass casualties of Kanyou City’s citizens) to somehow be his moral superiors.

Either they are all evil or they are all not. The crime is mass murder, the numbers are irrelevant.
Read my first post .

I know Ryu fui s morality is not good we are talking of unifying country using bloodbath against sharing wealth .

Fair enough your counter with "strawman " argument is more of avoiding the topic i created . Maybe you dodnt really get what i am trying to say .
 
H

Homelander

#11
Which is exactly where his entire idea falls flat on it’s face.
It was never a solution to ending the Warring State period.
I know you might bring this panel i have said it worked for Ei sei and uniting helped them briefly untill Qin fell after his death (check the history) but most of the time it never works . Assuming that you need to destroy unknown culture and people .

Again Unifying works like nickle and dime it definitely worked for China but he paid a price for it . Same thing failed for Russia which ultimately broke up into 12 factional states .

My nature of argument is not on morality its the idea of unifying a country .

Ei sei is still a war monger and terrorist he is no different than riboku . We may have diverse opinion on war but bloodshed could still be avoided .
 
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Fleet Admiral Lee Hung

Unto Greater Heights
.
#12
I know you might bring this panel i have said it worked for Ei sei and uniting helped them briefly untill Qin fell after his death (check the history) but most of the time it never works . Assuming that you need to destroy unknown culture and people .

Again Unifying works like nickle and dime it definitely worked for China but he paid a price for it . Same thing failed for Russia which ultimately broke up into 12 factional states .

My nature of argument is not on morality its the idea of unifying a country .

Ei sei is still a war monger and terrorist he is no different than riboku . We may have diverse opinion on war but bloodshed could still be avoided .
If the question is on how to unify China, literally all other methods of unification would not work as directly stated by their proponents in this manga. Ryofui does not disagree with Sei when Sei tells him that his method of unification will not work. And...what other unification methods have their been? Absolutely none.

The only people in this manga who dreamed of unifying China have dreamed of doing it through military might and not through peaceful means.

EDIT: also, the real world Sei was a tyrant and a monster, but Kingdom Sei? I assume you’re referring to irl Sei when you call him a “terrorist” right? Lol
 
#13
I know Ryu fui s morality is not good we are talking of unifying country using bloodbath against sharing wealth .
If not even Ryofui himself thinks it will end the Warring States period then how is it even a solution?
Fair enough your counter with "strawman " argument is more of avoiding the topic i created . Maybe you dodnt really get what i am trying to say .
Thread title

“Do you think Ryo Fui would have been better ruler?”

First post
Instead of this endless war Ei sei pursues to unite china , Dont you think Ryu Fui's method works better less war and better relationships using money .
“Does Ryofui’s method work better than Ei Sei?”

It difficult to see what point you are attempting to make when there is a complete dissonance in topic between the thread title and the very first post.
I know you might bring this panel i have said it kinda worked for i sei and uniting helped to unite but most of it never works . Assuming that you need to destroy unknown culture and people .

Again Unifying works like nickle and dime it definitely worked for China but he paid a price for it . ame thing failed for Russia which ultimately broke up into 12 factional states .

My nature of argument is not on morality its the idea of unifying a country .

Ei sei is still a war monger and terrorist he is no different than riboku . We may have diverse opinion on war but bloodshed could still be avoided .
Dude, Russia is still a single country, it has not divided into anything.

Second, Ei Sei is not unifying a country, each state (Qin, Wei, Han, Yan, Chu, Zhao) is a country in it’s own right, Ei Sei is unifying a land that contains multiple sub cultures which have created their own countries, that are all related to each other (hence why the concept of China even exists in the first place in this manga).

The other reason it is difficult to understand what you are trying to say is because you do not even understand the definitions of the very words that you are using thus you end up making contradictory sentences.
 

RayanOO

Lazy is the way
.
#14
Europeon Union is your answer ;)

I would agree Ryo fui wanted to hold Qin Cultures dominance would deter other countries to descent into war but it worked in Europe we dont see German culture destroying french or italian . This is off topic but i think Ryu fui actually works if other nation cooperates .
I talked about Europe for the commercial part and reliance between countries that can give result and peace.

EU countries waged war against each other during centuries, trying to conquer other states and expanding their own lands or loosing those lands just after.
And those wars didn't end because someone try to unify all EU but because of exchange, peace deals, cultural exchange among those countries etc.

It doesn't mean that each culture is erased but a common thing is shared and it keeps us close. (At least we try to do that and it was the goal, and that work only for a part, but there were no wars)

Other nations would want to cooperate because other states people would want the clothing or tools or other cultural aspect of Qin. And they will be more exchange between the states so the other states won't have interest to wage war because they need the other countries and will loose money.

For culture dominance you can have the USA or other countries during histories that can dominate via culture exchange and being role model for others nations. Country can export their culture to tower other countries.
 
H

Homelander

#15
If the question is on how to unify China, literally all other methods of unification would not work as directly stated by their proponents in this manga. Ryofui does not disagree with Sei when Sei tells him that his method of unification will not work. And...what other unification methods have their been? Absolutely none.

The only people in this manga who dreamed of unifying China have dreamed of doing it through military might and not through peaceful means.

EDIT: also, the real world Sei was a tyrant and a monster, but Kingdom Sei? I assume you’re referring to irl Sei when you call him a “terrorist” right? Lol
Real life Ei sei was bloodshed Emperor . Its true he killed many people to unify qin , Assuming Ei Sei is based on China's First Emperor then its true .

Current world works on Ryu Fui 's method in the end samething i said Ryu fui method works if nations cooperate . Its an essential gamble it might have not worked but Ei sei opts for bloodshed to unify which works but Ei sei has overlooked few thing it causes people to lose identity and culture his only obsession was to fullfill Qin to become a unified China .

Even Roman Empire fell trying to unify Europe . It kind of worked in China blimey but it failed in Europe ! Your thoughts on this ?
 
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H

Homelander

#16
If not even Ryofui himself thinks it will end the Warring States period then how is it even a solution?

Thread title

“Do you think Ryo Fui would have been better ruler?”

First post

“Does Ryofui’s method work better than Ei Sei?”

It difficult to see what point you are attempting to make when there is a complete dissonance in topic between the thread title and the very first post.

Dude, Russia is still a single country, it has not divided into anything.

Second, Ei Sei is not unifying a country, each state (Qin, Wei, Han, Yan, Chu, Zhao) is a country in it’s own right, Ei Sei is unifying a land that contains multiple sub cultures which have created their own countries, that are all related to each other (hence why the concept of China even exists in the first place in this manga).

The other reason it is difficult to understand what you are trying to say is because you do not even understand the definitions of the very words that you are using thus you end up making contradictory sentences.
I was taking of Soviet Russia not the current one .

Secondly this is the point what i am saying in the end other faction will think Ei sei as an invader eben if lands are united.. The very reason Qin empire fell after his death and other like Hans took over and Unification broke up again . I am going very historical here China was never united untill Mao Zedong unified the China like no other cost was 50 Million death .

No , i am not making contrary statement my point is still consistent with original statement that Ryu fui methods could have worked during warring time we may never know . Ei sei had limited knowledge on Economics he is like politician in the end making future prediction "Your idea won't work " he took risky steps it worked for short term it s consistent with real history of Qin empire . You can check on wiki as well.
 

Fleet Admiral Lee Hung

Unto Greater Heights
.
#17
Real life Ei sei was bloodshed Emperor . Its true he killed many people to unify qin , Assuming Ei Sei is based on China's First Emperor then its true .

Current world works on Ryu Fui 's method in the end samething i said Ryu fui method works if nations cooperate . Its an essential gamble it might have not worked but Ei sei opts for bloodshed to unify which works but Ei sei has overlooked few thing it causes people to lose identity and culture his only obsession was to fullfill Qin to become a unified China .

Even Roman Empire fell trying to unify Europe . It kind of worked in China blimey but it failed in Europe ! Your thoughts on this ?
Hold on. Too much going on in this comment.

1. Just so I understand what you are saying, I don’t want to straw man you, you are saying that in Manga Sei-meaning the Sei that Hara has essentially written from scratch-is actually a terrorist and a monster, because the historical figure that he is based on was those things?

I want to make sure I’m not misrepresenting you because that is some grade A bullshit lol. Might as well say manga Yo Tan Wa and Kyoukai are actually men because they are based off historical men.

Hara using a historical figure as an archetype for what is essentially a fictional character doesn’t mean you should go applying all of the traits of the historical figure to the fictional one. You can acknowledge that Sei’s methods and ideology have been presented as the only possible unification method in this manga, while simultaneously acknowledging that the historical figure upon which the fictional Sei is based upon was an abhorrent madman. In the same way that you can love and enjoy Kingdom as a manga without necessarily morally approving of any actions taken by the Chinese Government historically or in the modern day.

2. So whether or not the current world actually works on Ryofui’s method-which is essentially oligarchy, and whether or not Ryofui would have been able to unify China, are two different questions.

On unifying China-No. Ryofui will tell you himself that he is not better on this issue than Sei is. Like the panel @Owl Ki shared says, at best Ryofui’s method buys China a couple of decades of uneasy peace while the many parties rally their armies and then the bloodshed resumes.

On the current world working on Ryofui’s method: are you approving of Ryofui’s method on a moral level or on as a method of effective governance?

The efficacy of capitalist oligarchy’s has been highly debated to say the least. The US is currently neck deep in a late stage economic collapse resulting from the inevitable trajectory of Capitalist systems resulting in the redistribution of wealth from the bottom of society to the top. The US is heading towards-best case scenario-a peaceful revolution that will transform the country into something radically different from what Ryofui had in mind for China lol. Other capitalist countries have social restrictions in place to prevent this from happening, but ironically social restrictions that limit the people in power from raping a country’s economy are in opposition to what Ryofui was proposing.

So ironically, the exact same end point for Ryofui’s method for leadership in the manga and irl, are exactly the same. Was this intentionally done intentionally by Hara, I wonder?
Yes.

On Ryofui’s method being more moral than Sei’s: this almost deserves an entire thread on its own, my attempt to explain why Ryofui’s method is no more or less moral than Sei’s in a paragraph, would be a bastardization of the explanation that actual topic deserves.

Long story short, there is no reason whatsoever to believe Ryofui’s method is more moral than Sei’s. Sei seeks to end the bloodshed and prejudices of the era, Ryofui seeks to postpone them while enriching himself in the process.

3. As for Qin succeeding where Rome failed:

There are literally thousands of factors contributing to this, not just Sei’s leadership alone, but also the caliber of his subordinates and armies, the difference in ideology and tactics between Qin and the opposition, luck, etc etc etc.

If what you’re trying to say is that Sei’s methods are worse than Ryofui’s because Sei’s methods failed elsewhere but succeeded for Qin, then my answer would be:

What does it matter if his methods failed elsewhere? They worked for China, and in this discussion, that’s really all that matters, is it not?
 
#18
I was taking of Soviet Russia not the current one .
USSR. The Union of Socialist Soviet Republics. That is what broke up.

Soviet Russia would refer to the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic, a part of the USSR that ultimately became the Russia of today.

If you are going to correct yourself then at least do yourself the favour of correcting yourself correctly.
Secondly this is the point what i am saying in the end other faction will think Ei sei as an invader eben if lands are united..
Oh dear, if only those issues were addressed by Hara through Ei Sei. :quest:

Oh wait, they literally already have been. You should reread Chapters 487-488 :goatasure:

It is most amusing to see that every single one of your points has already been addressed and thoroughly debunked by the actual manga itself.

I assume this is the main reason why you do not use a single manga panel to back up any of your points.
The very reason Qin empire fell after his death and other like Hans took over and Unification broke up again.
I am going very historical here China was never united untill Mao Zedong unified the China like no other cost was 50 Million death .
Firstly
This is working off of the assumption that Hara follows events to the exact letter. For all we know, Ousen and his desire to be a King may end up being the reason why it all falls apart. Feck, Hara might throw us a complete curveball and create an alternative history where unification through martial might actually works.

Hara is not obligated to follow history to the exact letter. It is a work of fiction after all.

Secondly, what is the point of using historical events from other time periods as proof of you being somehow right regarding the events of a fictional setting (besides the fact that the manga is quite literally against you)?

Kingdom is a fictional story, set in a fictional setting that treats spiritualism as a completely real occurrence, that is loosely based on and romanticises real life events that were not recorded in any great particular detail.

Real life Houken could not kill tigers with his bare hands, real life Shin was not a noteworthy general, real life Yotanwa/Karin/Kyoukai were all men and real life Ei Sei would undoubtedly be nothing like fictional Ei Sei.

If you want to discuss history then go to an actual historical discussion forum.

If you want to discuss the actual manga called Kingdom then you should start searching for some manga panels that actually prove your point.
No , i am not making contrary statement my point is still consistent with original statement that Ryu fui methods could have worked during warring time we may never know .
How could Ryofui end the Warring State period using a method that was never designed to end it and that not even he himself thought could end it? That sure sounds contradictory to me.
Ei sei had limited knowledge on Economics he is like politician in the end making future prediction "Your idea won't work "
And Ryofui had limited knowledge as to man’s true nature and to the attitude of the other warring states and the people who rule them.

This is the mentality of those people.
If pure kindness means absolutely nothing to these folk then manipulative wealth that is only being used in an attempt to economically dominate them is obviously going to be worth even less to them.

Ryofui also continually said “Your idea won’t work”. He sure did not have a good rebuttal though, unlike Ei Sei who verbally tore Ryofui apart.
he took risky steps it worked for short term it s consistent with real history of Qin empire . You can check on wiki as well.
It was literally addressed why Ryofui’s method was a short term patch up.
Ei Sei’s method is literally the only method presented in the manga as actually having a chance to achieving a permanent end to warfare within China. Whether it did or did not is ultimately irrelevant.

All your arguments are based on;

I) Completely ignoring the manga which has already addressed every single one of your points. The fact that I have posted multiple manga panels to prove my points while you have used nothing is pretty telling.

II) Using completely disingenuous arguments involving grossly inaccurate historical comparisons with nations that were in completely different situations to the Warring States.

III) Using nonsensical straw man arguments (e.g. “Ei Sei’s method did not work for some other part of the world at some other point in time under completely different circumstances, therefore it is somehow bad.” and “Ryofui’s method worked over 2000 years later on a completely different continent with countries that use a completely different governance style, none of whom were actually at war with each other unlike the Warring States, therefore his method must somehow work for dealing with the rest of the Warring States.”).

IV) Using real life historical accounts of a vague period of history and using them to somehow judge fictional characters in what is essentially a fictional setting.

If all this was not bad enough, I have also noticed that you are going back to edit your posts and adding whole paragraphs to them.
I disagree on this below points , We are looking at myopic scope isnt Soviet union built on blood . Ei sei is nothing but cold blooded murderer the people in manga supporting him are nothing but gangster in disguise , our generation are blessed not to see how countries got unified but the cost of all in this is blood . Ei sei is no different than the current rulers who think endless war can be stopped by unifying the nation its no different than Ottoman Empire later broke up and Greece got it nation back .

Though Chinese history make Ei sei a nice guy overall we are talking of war that needs sacrifice of 100,000 + people . Unifying nation comes cost with the blood .

My man there are lost records the real life ruler killed so many people to unite China it was said to be literally bloodbath .We all have different opinion when we talk "warring state " there was no structured economy back then . A strong economy is required to unite the nation .Ryu Fui was capitalist to core and i am not sure how it would work out we are looking at what if situation here .

Maybe we should look at point why war was even happening ? Food , water was essential thing back then China was suffering from huge famine back then in BC . Gullible are poor peasant they are foot soldiers with no choice because they have no other choice .
Those two paragraphs were nowhere to be seen when I first quoted that post.

The sheer amount of intellectual dishonesty on display here is utterly staggering. :lawsigh:

Edit: MangaSee images do not permanently stay on posts within this forum, so I am replacing any that are in my posts.
 
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