Powers & Abilities Do you think Ussop will still get CoC, if Sanji doesn't?
- Thread starter Dettles
- Start date
Ussop has more chances than Sanji.
1-Back in East Blue, Ussop said he doesn't care about dying as long he achieves his dream. While Sanji said Zoro to throw away his ambition to save his life, for example.
2-Back in Dressrosa Ussop lied about having CoC.
3-Now in Onigashima we had the same "gag" again.
4-Ussop wants to "lead" an army, he's definitely more like a Conqueror than Sanji.
Haoshoku is about "personal ambition", like Zoro wanting to become WSS, Luffy PK...
Sanji showed great will with his friends/crew, he lacks moments like this when it comes about All Blue.
1-Back in East Blue, Ussop said he doesn't care about dying as long he achieves his dream. While Sanji said Zoro to throw away his ambition to save his life, for example.
2-Back in Dressrosa Ussop lied about having CoC.
3-Now in Onigashima we had the same "gag" again.
4-Ussop wants to "lead" an army, he's definitely more like a Conqueror than Sanji.
Haoshoku is about "personal ambition", like Zoro wanting to become WSS, Luffy PK...
Sanji showed great will with his friends/crew, he lacks moments like this when it comes about All Blue.
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I do disagree with Sanji not having enough ambition, I feel these next few chapters will be the turning point for that.
but Ussop getting it doesn't feel like he would deserve it by his actions, even in Dressrosa an arc that was pretty focused on him he didn't come out of it looking that good, more it felt more comical and for gags "God Usopp" and his huge bounty.
but Ussop getting it doesn't feel like he would deserve it by his actions, even in Dressrosa an arc that was pretty focused on him he didn't come out of it looking that good, more it felt more comical and for gags "God Usopp" and his huge bounty.
Ussop having CoC would be a tangible representation that he became a "brave warrior of the sea". Also Ussop's character is build in gags like his "lies", Oda loves to play with it.
Sanji has a great willpower, i know, but CoC is about "personal ambition and dreams". He can sacrifice everything for his friends/family, but can him do the same for All Blue? This is the problem, Oda didn't explored it Post TS, actually he made gags like he calling Fishman Island as All Blue...
Wano is the arc with more focus on Haki as we discovered 2 advanced forms(CoA and CoC) here, however Sanji didn't got any stuff related with that. The only moment was a CoO gag about him hearing the voice of womans. Now the fight against Queen is entirely based on science stuff, Oda is clearly taking a different route for him.
Sanji has a great willpower, i know, but CoC is about "personal ambition and dreams". He can sacrifice everything for his friends/family, but can him do the same for All Blue? This is the problem, Oda didn't explored it Post TS, actually he made gags like he calling Fishman Island as All Blue...
Wano is the arc with more focus on Haki as we discovered 2 advanced forms(CoA and CoC) here, however Sanji didn't got any stuff related with that. The only moment was a CoO gag about him hearing the voice of womans. Now the fight against Queen is entirely based on science stuff, Oda is clearly taking a different route for him.
To me, both cases would be stupid and forced.
The first quality of a conqueror is his ambition, a conqueror want to overcome the others.
Luffy want to become the Pirate King.
Zoro want to become the strongest swordsman.
Usopp wants to be a brave warrior, is generic, he would be satisfied in being aknowledged on par with some brave pirate. CoC users are most often willing to put their lifes at risk and to rather die than losing/running. Giving CoC to Usopp, who is still running from Page One, would be like giving a smartphone to your 2 years old daughter.
Sanji wants to find a mythic Sea, and he wants to cook for any people who needs to eat.
Sanji life mission has always been focused on the others well being before of his own self, while Zoro and Luffy always focus on getting stronger to beat opponents and reach the top. Sanji doesnt care about such things, he doesnt have this greater ambition, he cares about simple things that brings joy: like saving a man from starving, like finding the legendary sea he long chased.
The first quality of a conqueror is his ambition, a conqueror want to overcome the others.
Luffy want to become the Pirate King.
Zoro want to become the strongest swordsman.
Usopp wants to be a brave warrior, is generic, he would be satisfied in being aknowledged on par with some brave pirate. CoC users are most often willing to put their lifes at risk and to rather die than losing/running. Giving CoC to Usopp, who is still running from Page One, would be like giving a smartphone to your 2 years old daughter.
Sanji wants to find a mythic Sea, and he wants to cook for any people who needs to eat.
Sanji life mission has always been focused on the others well being before of his own self, while Zoro and Luffy always focus on getting stronger to beat opponents and reach the top. Sanji doesnt care about such things, he doesnt have this greater ambition, he cares about simple things that brings joy: like saving a man from starving, like finding the legendary sea he long chased.
CoC simply doesn't fit all that well with Sanji's character themes of kindness and family. His dream isn't as important to him as other SH's dreams, and his character is that of a really supportive protector, rather than someone who would risk it all for his ambitions.
Now i know we've seen the likes of Rayleigh or Ace have it so it could go either way, but Sanji really doesn't need it.
As for Usopp, it obviously doesn't make sense strenght-wise, but the way his lies and flase bravado sometimes come true, as well as him potentially getting some big character growth in Elbaf tells me he could end up getting it, even if only as a gag lol
Now i know we've seen the likes of Rayleigh or Ace have it so it could go either way, but Sanji really doesn't need it.
As for Usopp, it obviously doesn't make sense strenght-wise, but the way his lies and flase bravado sometimes come true, as well as him potentially getting some big character growth in Elbaf tells me he could end up getting it, even if only as a gag lol
Well Chinjao was literally a captain of his own fleet and probably a pretty infamous pirate back in the day, to the point where Garp specifically trained his fist to beat Chinjao's head.
And while Katakuri might not be the captain, it's pretty clear that he pretty much had to become the actual responsible leader of the family, so his still fits.
Almost all conquerors we've seen are people who are like natural born leaders of some kind or have/had great ambitions. Rayleigh is the only one who doesn't seem to fit into this but we don't really know much about his past and such. I guess Yamato is also an outlier.
And while Katakuri might not be the captain, it's pretty clear that he pretty much had to become the actual responsible leader of the family, so his still fits.
Almost all conquerors we've seen are people who are like natural born leaders of some kind or have/had great ambitions. Rayleigh is the only one who doesn't seem to fit into this but we don't really know much about his past and such. I guess Yamato is also an outlier.
I don't like neither Sanji nor Usopp getting CoC, but I can easily see any of them getting it.
On another note:
First the bolded part: nothing against you or anything, @Thururuzao, but I REALLY don't get this conclusion. There are plenty of characters across fiction with this theme of "not believing in themselves" at first. Sanji is not the first, and won't be the last to explore this kind of dilemma. So I really don't understand why people simply trap themselves to a side of the character that was dealt with ON THE SAME ARC HE WAS INTRODUCED.
The "Sanji that would tell Zoro to throw his dream away" died the moment he turned to Luffy and asked him "Hey, have you ever heard about the All Blue?".
Among the SH's, Sanji's dream of finding the All Blue is the most similar to Luffy's dream. Luffy wants to become the PK, and, for that, he needs to find the One Piece, a treasure that people believe to be a myth. Countless times Luffy was laughed at because of his dream. The same way Sanji wants to find some mystical sea that no one knows for sure if it evens exist.
They are like "Milo" from Atlantis, or Jim, from "treasure planet". Searching for some "fairy tail". The fact that Oda doesn't talk about the All Blue all that much during the story means very little. It will become relevant only when time calls for it to be relevant.
From "throw away your stupid dream" on Baratie to "what about your dream?" on Thriller Bark. Stop trapping your view on the character with just a piece of his story.
Second, about the "4th" point. Luffy does not want to lead an army. In fact, he actually "rejected" his Grand Fleet and just told them they would be friends and he would call for them if he needed help, just like he would help them if needed. Meanwhile Sanji ACTUALLY led people.
He turned Duval's gang into allies, he led the G-5 Marines in Punk Hazard. He turned Viola into an ally, he turned Pudding into an ally, etc.
Usopp had a great interaction with Dorry and Broggy, he turned the Ennies Lobby giants into allies, he led the Tontatta.
I think they both fit the "leading an army" point.
On another note:
First the bolded part: nothing against you or anything, @Thururuzao, but I REALLY don't get this conclusion. There are plenty of characters across fiction with this theme of "not believing in themselves" at first. Sanji is not the first, and won't be the last to explore this kind of dilemma. So I really don't understand why people simply trap themselves to a side of the character that was dealt with ON THE SAME ARC HE WAS INTRODUCED.
The "Sanji that would tell Zoro to throw his dream away" died the moment he turned to Luffy and asked him "Hey, have you ever heard about the All Blue?".
Among the SH's, Sanji's dream of finding the All Blue is the most similar to Luffy's dream. Luffy wants to become the PK, and, for that, he needs to find the One Piece, a treasure that people believe to be a myth. Countless times Luffy was laughed at because of his dream. The same way Sanji wants to find some mystical sea that no one knows for sure if it evens exist.
They are like "Milo" from Atlantis, or Jim, from "treasure planet". Searching for some "fairy tail". The fact that Oda doesn't talk about the All Blue all that much during the story means very little. It will become relevant only when time calls for it to be relevant.
From "throw away your stupid dream" on Baratie to "what about your dream?" on Thriller Bark. Stop trapping your view on the character with just a piece of his story.
Second, about the "4th" point. Luffy does not want to lead an army. In fact, he actually "rejected" his Grand Fleet and just told them they would be friends and he would call for them if he needed help, just like he would help them if needed. Meanwhile Sanji ACTUALLY led people.
He turned Duval's gang into allies, he led the G-5 Marines in Punk Hazard. He turned Viola into an ally, he turned Pudding into an ally, etc.
Usopp had a great interaction with Dorry and Broggy, he turned the Ennies Lobby giants into allies, he led the Tontatta.
I think they both fit the "leading an army" point.
I’ll say what I’ve said every single time this topic has come up - Usopp is absolutely a conqueror, Sanji is not. If you don’t understand it without an explanation, I’m not optimistic that you’ll get it WITH one 
Like I said, it’s either something you understand or it isn’t…there has been far more groundwork laid in the canon for Usopp than there’s been for Sanji; the only reason anyone thinks it’ll happen for the latter is because Oda is so fucking predictable and loves repeating himself, so now that Zoro’s unlocked the ability, the lowest common denominators are tripping over themselves calling for Sanji to have it too despite nothing about his character telegraphing that he should. Just because a guy is strong, insightful, and competent in a battle doesn’t make him a conqueror, why is it so hard to accept that Sanji can be extremely useful to Luffy and the crew without having CoC?? Why does it HAVE to be shoehorned in for a character just because a contingency of impossible-to-satisfy fans want it??
You kidding? Usopp displays an enormous amount of willpower with every fight he gets into.
Usopp is the most negative, scared, vulnerable and weakest character in the entire Straw Hats. When he gets into a fight, he has to overcome ALL of that in order to defeat his opponents, which he constantly does.
Think of your absolute biggest fear, and how well you would do if you you put into a situation where you have to face that fear. Now times that by 1000 with Usopp, who is literally afraid of everything, yet always powers through that fear to achieve his objective.
It takes a tremendous amount of willpower to overcome ones fear, and that's what Usopp does day in and day out. In fact if you look at all of the Straw Hats, Usopp is the only one who needs an absurd amount of willpower in order to accomplish his dream, because his dream is all about overcoming an obstacle that can only be achieved by willpower.
This is why it's downright a given that Usopp will have CoC, because he needs to conquer his fears in order to become a brave warrior of the sea.
Usopp is the most negative, scared, vulnerable and weakest character in the entire Straw Hats. When he gets into a fight, he has to overcome ALL of that in order to defeat his opponents, which he constantly does.
Think of your absolute biggest fear, and how well you would do if you you put into a situation where you have to face that fear. Now times that by 1000 with Usopp, who is literally afraid of everything, yet always powers through that fear to achieve his objective.
It takes a tremendous amount of willpower to overcome ones fear, and that's what Usopp does day in and day out. In fact if you look at all of the Straw Hats, Usopp is the only one who needs an absurd amount of willpower in order to accomplish his dream, because his dream is all about overcoming an obstacle that can only be achieved by willpower.
This is why it's downright a given that Usopp will have CoC, because he needs to conquer his fears in order to become a brave warrior of the sea.
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