Break Week Does Pirate Flag Indicate That Joy Boy Brought Back "Death"?

[Salah WG]

There are Five Pieces of Information that if We put together might Reveal something Major,
This is more of "Interesting Material" rather than a Theory,

1. Joy Boy is First Pirate which means He is First to raise a Pirate Flag (Jolly Roger)
2. According to Hiriluk, Pirate Flag represents "Rejecting Impossibilities", and what He puts on Top of it (Such as Sakura) represents what He believes is The Solution
3. In Chapter 2 of One Piece (Volume 1), Oda explained that One of Theories regarding origin of Jolly Roger is that it's a Reference to "Old Roger" which is one of Devil's Names
4. Holy Knights First Mark is basically Two Crossed-Bones without a Skull, and We know that Skull refers to Death while Imu grants Immortality
5. This Concept of modifying a Mark to oppose it was re-used in Fish-Men Island Arc where it was revealed that Fisher Tiger turned CD Slave Mark into Sun Mark

All of this Hints towards One Possible Scenario, what if Pirate Flag was created by Joy Boy as a Mark of Rejecting & Opposing Imu's Abyss Mark, putting a Skull (Death) on Top of it similar to how Hiriluk thought up of his Flag (Putting Sakura), meaning his Dream was to bring back "Death",

If Imu truly lived all this time, and He can share this Immortality, then it's possible that during Void Century, the World was completely made up of Immortals, and it was Joy Boy who rejected that & decided to bring back "Death", hence becoming a Pirate,

Thriller Bark is another Hint of this, as it was basically a Kingdom of Undead People, while Brook (Our Joy Boy in this case) was the only one They feared because He was purifying them, He was to Thriller Bark, what Joy Boy was for the World back then, a "Pirate" and Bringer of Death Itself,

In Hiriluk's Case, He wanted to turn Snow (Snowy Tale) into Sakura (His Solution), so it's possible that Joy Boy wanted to turn Laughter (Laugh Tale) into Death (His Solution),
Hence why Oda created this trend of Dying with a Smile/Laughter,

Ofc Death here doesn't mean the end, there is gonna be some context and reveals about how the world exactly works, but apparently Start of Void Century = Start of Immortal Life, and Joy Boy's Death led to it's End, restoring cycle of Life & Death again, that Imu is apparently trying to Fix once more,

This is just one of many conclusions that can be made from those Five Materials, I'd like to hear your thoughts & theories.
Some Tags: @moreha9685 @Wh1p @nik87 @Blazing Lion @ConquistadoR @RayanOO @grey matter ... etc

 

[moreha9685]

Your conclusion makes sense. I don't know if JB's jolly was chosen after he himself broke IMU's mark, choosing mortality and meaning over a boring, endless life as one of IMU's lackeys, or if JB learned about IMU's contracts without ever being subject to one of them himself, and drew his jolly as a symbolic rejection of what IMU and his demonic slaves stand for, deciding to sail the seas head-on, no matter what comes, death be damned. Either way, it is interesting that Oda has tied IMU's mark and the well-known pirate flag all the way back in Drum. Brook as well is another skeleton who "defeated death", quite literally in his case.

Death also allows for wills to be passed on, for devils to be reincarnated in new fruits. Ironically, by making everybody immortal, IMU could virtually erase all opposition to his tyranny. All slaves under his contracts, all without anything to pass on, all powers within his control, no more fruits "running away" from him and the WG. The one to break away from such a society could very well earn himself the moniker of greatest criminal in history, aka first pirate.

Roger's own name as a homage to the devil is part of that reversal that we've seen for the most part of the story, with the heroes being called devils and enemies of the gods, while those terming themselves "gods" are in actuality governed by a proper demonic spawn.

 

[Salah WG]

Your conclusion makes sense. I don't know if JB's jolly was chosen after he himself broke IMU's mark, choosing mortality and meaning over a boring, endless life as one of IMU's lackeys, or if JB learned about IMU's contracts without ever being subject to one of them himself, and drew his jolly as a symbolic rejection of what IMU and his demonic slaves stand for, deciding to sail the seas head-on, no matter what comes, death be damned. Either way, it is interesting that Oda has tied IMU's mark and the well-known pirate flag all the way back in Drum. Brook as well is another skeleton who "defeated death", quite literally in his case.

Death also allows for wills to be passed on, for devils to be reincarnated in new fruits. By making everybody immortal, IMU could virtually erase all opposition to his tyranny. All slaves under his contracts, all without anything to pass on, all powers within his control, no more fruits "running away" from him and the WG. The one to break away from such a society could very well earn himself the moniker of greatest criminal in history, aka first pirate.

Roger's own name as a homage to the devil is part of that reversal that we've seen for the most part of the story, with the heroes being called devils and enemies of the gods, while those terming themselves "gods" are in actuality governed by a proper demonic spawn.

You pointed out very interesting stuff.
I also can't decide whether JB experienced Imu's Mark similar to Shanks, or He never met 20 Kings until the end similar to Hiriluk & Isshi-20,

I find it interesting that Brook looks like Death & that the only difference between Luffy's & Roger's Journey is Brook,
People forget that Roger Pirates also looked for Rumbar Pirates, but They failed to find them, whilst SHs did, and it was thanks to a Storm that was Fated to change their course towards Brook's Location, and to further insist on this Fated meeting, Oda made Luffy ask Brook to join right away to which Brook said Yes immediately,

And now Holy Knights's Damsel In Distress (Gunko) is related to Brook...
It's clear that Brook is not a Straw Hat Member, He is a Treasure that They found, a Key to something,
Actually, He is similar to Golden City of Shandora (With his Unique Body being the City, his Head/Afro being Golden Bell which is separate part that represents his Promise, and inside is Recording of Bink's Sake which is the actual treasure similar to Shandora Poneglyph)

I think you answered Joy Boy's Motivation, the biggest negative of Immortality is indeed the end of Inherited Will, which reminds me of Chapter 100 & that famous Line about "Inherited Will + People's Dreams + Ebb & Flow of Time", Imu's Plan would bring an End to all Three, as there won't be anything to be Inherited anymore, and Dreams cannot be accomplished because They won't reach the right person nor DFs can be given to those who desire them, and also time will become seen differently,

Also, regarding Zoro's Vision of "Death", what if all CoC Users actually experienced that at some point, It's similar to how Usopp saw Kalbauterman in Skypiea & then Franky explained it, indicating that it's not a Unique Experience for Usopp, Oda could be doing the same thing here, just because other CoC Users didn't talk about it, doesn't mean They didn't have such Vision/Experience, cuz if CoC is the key to fighting those Immortals, then this means Death's Biggest Ally are CoC Users, hence that Zoro Scene,

I would go even one step further & say it's possible that it was Death that gave them CoC (They were Chosen by it),
It's like CoC Users are to Death what Holy Knights are to Imu, because think about it, if CoA can already fight DF Users & empower Users, then CoC mainly exists to Counter Immortals, it's like CoC Users are Agents of Death, They are Shinigamis, and this also means that CoC indirectly Exists because of Imu,

It's also possible that this Story of Imu & Death might have been Inspired from Story of Izanami,
You can check the Story in this Wikipedia Article here under "Death And The Underworld"

 

[Kizaruber Eats]

There are Five Pieces of Information that if We put together might Reveal something Major,
This is more of "Interesting Material" rather than a Theory,

1. Joy Boy is First Pirate which means He is First to raise a Pirate Flag (Jolly Roger)
2. According to Hiriluk, Pirate Flag represents "Rejecting Impossibilities", and what He puts on Top of it (Such as Sakura) represents what He believes is The Solution
3. In Chapter 2 of One Piece (Volume 1), Oda explained that One of Theories regarding origin of Jolly Roger is that it's a Reference to "Old Roger" which is one of Devil's Names
4. Holy Knights First Mark is basically Two Crossed-Bones without a Skull, and We know that Skull refers to Death while Imu grants Immortality
5. This Concept of modifying a Mark to oppose it was re-used in Fish-Men Island Arc where it was revealed that Fisher Tiger turned CD Slave Mark into Sun Mark

All of this Hints towards One Possible Scenario, what if Pirate Flag was created by Joy Boy as a Mark of Rejecting & Opposing Imu's Abyss Mark, putting a Skull (Death) on Top of it similar to how Hiriluk thought up of his Flag (Putting Sakura), meaning his Dream was to bring back "Death",

If Imu truly lived all this time, and He can share this Immortality, then it's possible that during Void Century, the World was completely made up of Immortals, and it was Joy Boy who rejected that & decided to bring back "Death", hence becoming a Pirate,

Thriller Bark is another Hint of this, as it was basically a Kingdom of Undead People, while Brook (Our Joy Boy in this case) was the only one They feared because He was purifying them, He was to Thriller Bark, what Joy Boy was for the World back then, a "Pirate" and Bringer of Death Itself,

In Hiriluk's Case, He wanted to turn Snow (Snowy Tale) into Sakura (His Solution), so it's possible that Joy Boy wanted to turn Laughter (Laugh Tale) into Death (His Solution),
Hence why Oda created this trend of Dying with a Smile/Laughter,

Ofc Death here doesn't mean the end, there is gonna be some context and reveals about how the world exactly works, but apparently Start of Void Century = Start of Immortal Life, and Joy Boy's Death led to it's End, restoring cycle of Life & Death again, that Imu is apparently trying to Fix once more,

This is just one of many conclusions that can be made from those Five Materials, I'd like to hear your thoughts & theories.
Some Tags: @moreha9685 @Wh1p @nik87 @Blazing Lion @ConquistadoR @RayanOO @grey matter ... etc

This is a phenomenal idea, with so much narrative depth/weight/gravitas and nuance to it. I really love this. I hope you're right.

@CoC: Color of Clowns you may enjoy this theory.

 

[nik87]

I got nothing to contribute to this because I never thought about it in this direction but it is certainly an interesting approach.

 

[OykotsTreasure]

Very interesting theory!

If true, it does put Luffy shortening his life with Gear 5 and other techniques into a new light.

It's worth noting that sakura blossoms represent the brief, fleeting beauty that is life in Japan. Symbolizing life, death, and renewal. So if cherry blossoms are a symbol shared by Joyboy, than he likely also is connected to the cycle of death.
https://notwithoutmypassport.com/cherry-blossom-meaning-in-japan/
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/for-more-than-1000-years-cherry-blossoms-move-world-to-emotion

The entire story kicked off with Roger's execution. So, thematically, that ties into the importance and impact that death can have.

I'd say Blackbeard also helps support this idea. With his philosophy of "People's Dreams Never Die!", which Luffy found troubling for some reason. If Blackbeard is also looking to co-op Imu's immortality for himself, it would make sense that Luffy would also oppose that.

Blackbeard's not the only villain with ties to death. Some people have speculated that Buggy has thematic ties with Osiris, a Egyptian God of Rebirth, who was chopped up into pieces and then reassembled to come back to life again. And if Buggy has some connection to the Alabasta royal family via his blue hair, that does help connect the "Egyptian" theme. So, that's another One Piece villain with possible ties to "immortality" that Luffy opposes, at least broadly speaking.

And then there's Zoro's "King of Hell" epithet. Which ties things back to death again.

The Vegapunks also kind of hint at this. If Egghead is a metaphor for the Ancient Kingdom, then they likely had some form of technology similar to Vegapunk's satellites, giving them a form of immortality. The Ancient Kingdom's version of immortality might have had more to do with the Devil Fruits, but they probably did have some form of immortality. Similarly, the Seraphim make sense as villains since they also allow for a version of "immortality" of a sort via people getting infinite clones of themselves.

Luffy and Usopp fighting over letting the Going Merry "die" would also fit into the theme. Luffy was letting to let "nature take it's course" in that situation.

One thing that would contradict the theory might be Luffy's reaction to Ace's death. Luffy was VERY not okay with Ace's death. If Luffy was metaphorically fighting to give people the right to die, than that kind of contradicts that goal. But, you could maybe excuse that as a exception, because Ace's life was "unnaturally" cut short. Joyboy/Nika/Luffy's goal would probably be to restore the proper "flow" of nature. They probably aren't pro-murder. They're just anti-immortality, because it's artificially created. "Playing God" the wrong way. Which is interesting given the God Fruits do seem to be linked to various types of "play".

One alteration to the theory that I might throw out there. Joyboy/Nika might not have been totally against "immortality" per se. They just might have been against Imu's version of immortality. It's possible that Joyboy/Nika favored a more "reincarnation" focused version of immortality. Thus, why Devil Fruits and Inherited Will exist, they're possibly remnants of Joyboy/Nika's immortality system that was competing with Imu's version of immortality. Imu's version of immortality is your body living forever, which limits your ability to change. And keeps your old grudges and biases alive forever. Joyboy's version of immortality would be more focused on having your "soul" live forever. Letting you rediscover the "adventure of life" over and over again. Being able to see the World with the eyes of a child again. By contrast, I suppose Vegapunk's satellites would allow you to keep your "mind" alive forever. So, we'd have a trinity of different versions of immortality. Mind, Body, and Soul. The conflict would be over which version of immortality each party feels is the best for humanity, then. Differing ideologies about what the best form of immortality could be.

Overall, I'd actually say this is a pretty solid theory! There is a opportunity for there to be a consistent line of thought supporting this. I wouldn't mind if they theory turned out to be true. Good job!