Controversial Explaining Law + Kid vs Big Mom

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Herrera95

#1
#1
Initially me like many if not everyone didn't understood how Law and Kid actually fought Big Mom.

My initial thought was Oda giving them tons of plot armor. Although I still believe there is too much plot armor in this fight because... It is undeniably that there is. I could understand a little more about how things happened and now I would say there is only 50% of plot armor in this fight(initially it was like 90%).

So the biggest mysterie in this fight is

HOW THE HELL KID MANAGED TO HURT BIG MOM?


So Big Mom is tough enough to be hit normally. You would need G4 Boundman level of haki to make her using basic haki to defend herself.

So although you can say that Kid's haki is as strong G4 Boundman or even stronger you can't say that hakiless Kid is even close at his level since hakiless Luffy and hakiless Kid in base weakened by kairoseki were portrayed equals.



So Kid at least without haki shouldn't be allow to hurt Big Mom even more this bad


Big Mom says that it's been decades since she felt pain like this. And she fought Kaido for 3 days a week ago.






So Law and Kid awakening combo managed to deal Big Mom more pain than her death fight with Kaido that lasted days.


But that wasn't enough for them to win over her



But they still was able to come back





Initially I saw it as Law was the only one giving damage to her while Kid was barely scratching. But after seeing the sequence of their combos it is pretty obvious that Law giving her internal damage was the main factor of weakening her outer resistance so Kid's attack could damage her.

It is pretty clear since Law is often using his attacks and then Kid is following is his. While also the few times Kid try to attack first Big Mom managed to dodge the attack. Also when Law used tact(not a internal damage) it only purpose was to set his next internal damage attack.

So Law only hurt Big Mom by attacking her internally while Kid only damaged Big Mom after Law's internal damage weakened her external resistances.

Okay that explains how Kid was able to hurt her. But still how they were able to "defeat" her?

First of all we can clearly see tons of plot armor









So there is too much to digest.

First of all the plot armor starts with Kid overpowering Big Mom. Even hakiless Big Mom with AMNESIA was overpowering Queen a solid YC2. Ok you can argue that Kid is stronger than Queen. But to overpower Big Mom that easily when she is using her homies...

CONTINUE...
 
H

Herrera95

#2
#2




Can any of you imagine Kid being able to hold Dinosaur Queen like that, spin around and knock him out that easily? NEVER!

The second plot armor was Kid and Law coming out with their awakenings out of nowhere without using it at Rooftop battle.

The third plot armor is Kid and Law after being "defeated" by Big Mom still managed to keep fighting her A LOT! This is specially plot armor for Law that is always complaining about how much her DF exhausts him and he can't use it many times.




Then Law that has the most exhausting DF ever pulls up a new power never shown that has nothing to do with anything he ever showed us imitating Corazon's DF.

And finally the real reason the fight was over was all the plotless bombs Yamato put together right under where Big Mom was about to fall and then she falling off Onigashima because of bombs, then falling on magma pool because of bombs and then volcano eruption.

So that's how Kid and Law defeated Big Mom?

NO!

That's how they "win" over her like narrator said. They win by pushing her off Onigashima. If anything bombs, magma and eruption defeated her. Big Mom was still conscious until Kid and Law last attacks landed on her.

TO SUM UP
  1. Kid is only hurting Big Mom because Law is weakning her external resistance with internal attacks.
  2. Kid doesn't harm Big Mom if Law doesn't attack her internally before. And Law doesn't hurt Big Mom without internal attacks(Tact made no damage to her).
  3. Lots of plot armor for Kid and Law. More stamina than they should have specially for using awakening soo many times. Law using Corazon power. Kid surviving when Hawkins was giving him headaches.
  4. Kid and Law wasn't able to make Big Mom unconscious. They only pushed her off Onigashima with help of bombs. If she got unconscious was because of bombs, lava and volcano eruption.
 
Monkey D Theories

Monkey D Theories

‎
#5
#5
This is a rootbeer-esque type analysis

Trying to brain fuck a manga made for children because the canon disagrees with your pre-made headcanons.

>>how did Kid hurt BM?

Metal beams hurt BM because metal beams are heavy. Kid collecting them and blasting them at BM is like getting hit by a train.

>>how did they win?

Because they are strong and they got lucky with the bombs. Shanks and Teach both acknowledged the strength of the captains.
 
J

JoNdule

‎
#10
#10
"Law was weakening her so that kid can damage her"

How does Law hurting her organs would weaken BM iron skin? Lol
You people need to throw away this dumb downplay
Kid hurt BM because his own AP/lethality got boisted with Awakening.
Damn Punk bypasses durability.

stop coping

Kix was the closer because he's stronger
That's how Oda writes the battle : Luffy finished Doffy because he's stronger
Kid finished BM because he's stronger
That's the narrative

There was never statement "my organs got soften so my skin/durability is down" for BM
 
H

Herrera95

#11
#11
Midnight Delight said:
Even Burgess could do it, so why not
Click to expand...
Maybe with his current DF only.
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Monkey D Theories said:
This is a rootbeer-esque type analysis
Click to expand...
I'm using manga panels and canon information. I'm not making things up.

Monkey D Theories said:
Trying to brain fuck a manga made for children because the canon disagrees with your pre-made headcanons.

>>how did Kid hurt BM?

Metal beams hurt BM because metal beams are heavy. Kid collecting them and blasting them at BM is like getting hit by a train.
Click to expand...
I explained how initially I thought the fight went one way and then I understand how something were better explained.

If Kid could hurt BM why he only attacks after Law? It is a pattern. Oda is not doing it for no reason.

Monkey D Theories said:
>>how did they win?

Because they are strong and they got lucky with the bombs. Shanks and Teach both acknowledged the strength of the captains.
Click to expand...
They shoved Big Mom out of Onigashima. She herself said those bombs wouldn't be enough to defeat herself.

Look all the scenario Oda had to give their win. Making her falling floor after floor. Making Law nonsene power of silence room. Having Yamato grouping bombs in the exactly location where Big Mom would fall. Making bombs falling over her creating a huge hole where she falls on magma pool. Making the volcano erupt her.

Oda took too much things that wasn't related to Kid and Law to justify their win. So it is pretty clear that they were never able to knock her out. Putting them on Mirror World for example. Even giving Kid all amount of metal he needs. Big Mom isn't losing. Simple as that.
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Luffy is the mc said:
Durability retconed, no haki used, nerfed to the point Kidd and Law could win. It's as simple as that. She's also not a smart and fast fighter which doesn't help in a 2v1. Add the bombs and lava and there you go.
Overall Onigashima Big Mom was barely portrayed as a low top tier.
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You are right I even forgot to talk about Big Mom not using CoC coating. I don't think her durability was retconned though.
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kanon said:
Cool headcanon, so :

Why didn't she use ACOC ?
Why is she the only one get weaken as the fight go on ?
What happen with Law's stamina DF problem ? He spammed it like no tomorrow.
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Yeah there was too many things Oda was pushing to have her defeated I even forgot to talk about she not using CoC coating.

Exactly! Kid and Law were even shown defeated in a panel. And then they got back up even stronger.

Law: This will be my last attack *proceeds to use several attacks after that*
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DarkKingSlander said:
My biggest issue is the healthbar handicap.

No way did big mom take more than 5% damage on the rooftop.

But kid and especially law were heavily damaged on the roof. Hell, kid was getting it double time from mama and hawkins at one point and she still couldn't out him down?

Oda should had just let king kill her.
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Yeah I found that too odd but could have being a cool scenario for Oda to show how durable Kid is. If he didn't got two-shotted by Shanks lately...
 
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Toryu

Toryu

‎
#12
#12
The problem with Kidd hurting BM and Kaido is that Oda has been absolutely ass to show how strong these attacks are.

Most of the time Kidd feels like he is just knocking them around with no damage, even if that is not the story intent
 
H

Herrera95

#13
#13
JoNdule said:
"Law was weakening her so that kid can damage her"

How does Law hurting her organs would weaken BM iron skin? Lol
You people need to throw away this dumb downplay
Kid hurt BM because his own AP/lethality got boisted with Awakening.
Damn Punk bypasses durability.

stop coping

Kix was the closer because he's stronger
That's how Oda writes the battle : Luffy finished Doffy because he's stronger
Kid finished BM because he's stronger
That's the narrative

There was never statement "my organs got soften so my skin/durability is down" for BM
Click to expand...
Dude hahahaha. Big Mom weakened her iron skin by getting emotional about Madre Carmel. How the fuck internal damage wouldn't weak her too? This is like saying someone could keep the same fight while having internal bleeding. Look how Doflamingo was helpless for a while after taking Gamma Knife from Law. He couldn't avoid Counter Shock after that.

Funnily enough my intention with this thread was to hype Kid by giving him proper credits for hitting Big Mom. When the chapter came out me and many others kept saying he was doing no damage. Only Law was damaging her.

If Kid could hurt Big Mom on his own Oda wouldn't make Law using his internal damage all the time before Kid attacking her. Even when Law uses an attack that is not internal damage he didn't hurt her just set her up to take an internal damage attack.

Kid didn't finished BM. WTF? He just pushed her out of Onigashima with help of the bombs.

Damned Punk didn't made shit to Big Mom. Even their crewmembers said she didn't liked anywhere close to be defeated and even after receiving the first bomb while falling Onigashima she said that wouldn't be enough to defeat her.

Yes there is no statement it is only interpretation based on her their powers works and how the pattern of their attack combos went.
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Toryu said:
The problem with Kidd hurting BM and Kaido is that Oda has been absolutely ass to show how strong these attacks are.

Most of the time Kidd feels like he is just knocking them around with no damage, even if that is not the story intent
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I'm not giving Kid hurting Kaido. He didn't. Just like Law stones didn't hurt Kaido. Neither Momonosuke bite.
 
H

Herrera95

#19
#19
Monkey D Theories said:
That’s my biggest issue. However, you have to take into consideration:
  • Much of the fight was off screened
  • Characters don’t use ACoC all the time(see: Kaido’s boro breath)
  • BM hardly used ACoC in WCI
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At least Big Mom was shown using basic haki when Kid and Law seemed to be defeated already.

Kaido's using boro breath means nothing. And Big Mom using her homies too. Kaido is using CoC coating attacks all the time when hitting with his Kanabo only other attacks are different(like even the sword stabb on Kin'emon is hakiless).

We saw Big Mom using CoC coating sky splitting with Kaido, given how Kaido mainly use his Kanabo and always with CoC coating we can guess that she mostly used while fighting him for 3 days. And also to one shot Page One. I don't know one time on WCI that she used CoC coating.
 
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