Before we get into the main content of the thread, here are the types of "Marine" fans :yasu::
Now on a serious note, let's talk about the thread title. Based off of the threads I've read regarding the admirals the common census seems to be putting Kuzan/Sakazuki above the rest with Kizaru in the mix. While the new admirals are considered their inferiors because of some weird concept of "C3" / "original three"/ or w.e ideas fans came up with to group the three together. For me personally as an advocate researcher of the marines (y'all can probably check out my various long posts on exploring the Marines storylines or talking about their future), I find it weird that one would think the new admirals are inferior to the old. Now GreenBull is partially a mystery so I won't be talking about him, the subject rather is focused on Fujitora. Now since Kuzan is the one who left the Marines, I'll be going over why Fujitora is an upgrade over Kuzan.
(This is not a Kuzan hate-thread or bashing thread or underrating thread. This is a justification thread for the new admirals. Kuzan is one of my boys as he was a marine and still helps out the marines, so won't catch any hating here. Pointing this out so nobody jumps into the thread with "got to defend Kuzan's pride" mentality.)
Currently the situation with the Marines is the following:
-> They are stronger than they have ever been in their entire history. The upgrade in their prowess is visible enough for somebody like Jinbei to make that claim. The important factor here is that this is without the SSG, as Jinbei wouldn't know about it considering its a top Marine secret. Now it's one thing to be "stronger than before", it's completely different thing to be "FAR more powerful than before". That "Far" implying a big upgrade in prowess.
-> They are also more determined than ever before under the great leadership of Fleet Admiral Sakazuki. So the leadership of the Marines had gotten an upgrade. Leading to Marines with more confidence & determination. This is also visible to the public eye as somebody like Jinbei, an enemy of the marines, was able to point it out to Luffy.
Why is Kuzan considered more powerful than Fujitora:
1st. He's part of the mythical "C3", which some seem to think are the "top marines" based off of Robin's comment (I couldn't track down any other basis for the "C3" mythical hype). Robin's statement in reality was simply about the position of "admiral", rather than a directly about the people in the position. For example "they are so powerful because they are admirals.." The position of Admiral being used to hype up the three individuals, rather than the three individuals being used to hype up the admiral position. No matter the era, the ones in the "Admiral" position are considered the "top powers" of the World Government, that's what the position is there for. Because they're the ones who're actively fighting, not the fleet admiral. It was the samething in Roger's era. Sengoku & Garp were the ones actively fighting not Kong. Samething we see currently, Fujitora/ Green Bull / Kizaru are the ones actively doing things and fighting, not Sakazuki.
2nd. The Sakazuki vs Kuzan fight. Which has a lot of misconceptions around it and also a lot of fan assumptions like "Kuzan let Sakazuki win" or how the fight was really close. And that this was a way of Oda showcasing them as the two powerful marines.
3rd. Garp's direct underling, so he's the successor to Garp. But this is partially based on fan assumptions. As far as we know the only who really trained the youngins was Z, and that's from a movie not even the manga. Kuzan simply owes Garp for something, we don't know what. The people who Garp trained personally himself end up having similar fighting styles as him: Luffy, Ace, and Koby... aka brawlers. Nothing so far implies he's that. Even in ideology, personality, etc they aren't alike.
4th. His feats are superior. His feats are solid, like the insta freezing a Tsunami many times the size of MF. Or performance against Jozu. Where as Fujitora has the being pushed back by G3 Luffy, then the whole thing with "huffing". (I'll be addressing these in a later section).
These are the main crucial reasons I could find why people consider Kuzan to be more powerful than Fujitora. If there are other you'd like me to address feel free to post them.
The main argument will be divided into multiple parts for breaking down why Fujitora is the much needed upgrade.
1st. Ambition
Kuzan based on his vivre card was once a fired up Marine ready to change things, but overtime switched his motto to "lazy justice". For a good portion of the time the man spent his time lazying around and doing the normal paperwork that's required.
With Fujitora it's a whole different situation. Fujitora has ambitious goals in wanting to "correct" the corruption of the world, and specifically the World Government. He's seen fucked up shit and he decided to join the Marines to accomplish those goals (just as Kuzan was once fired up about it). The moment he got the position of Admiral, he started doing things, contrary to Kuzan who in that same position spent his time lazying around.
Attitude effected by ambition:
This ambition also causes a huge difference in their decision making & attitude. Kuzan after losing to Sakazuki left the Marines. He fights Sakazuki because he doesn't want to be under Sakazuki, due to Sakazuki's "absolute justice" motto. Fujitora on the other hand is causing big changes for the good of the world, even if they go against Sakazuki & World Government. For example his thinking is along the lines of:
"Cover up for the World Government? No sir, not on my watch. We fucked up, we'll admit to the fuck up.
World Government and Sakazuki want to keep the warlords even if they're bad? I don't give a fuck, they're fucking up countries, we're getting done with them. Just means we need to strengthen the Marines more."
^^ (That sounds like the attitude a certain somebody who Kuzan owes a debt to has.)
There's 1 man who's keeping his ambition strong and making sure he achieves his goal while strengthening the Marines and making them self-independent, even if his leader is somebody who he doesn't agree with. The other one challenges the person he doesn't agree with and then leaves the organization, despite being beloved by many of the subordinates.
Accomplishments achieved due to ambition:
Kuzan has been a marine admiral for maybe little less than a decade (I reckon 5-10 years). What did he accomplish? Nothing. I'm sure he fought strong pirates and etc, which is a regular marine duty. But he really didn't accomplish anything ground breaking that we know of.
Fujitora in a year and half has been making headlines after headlines:
-> Made headline at Dressrosa - In parallel to Law/Luffy's defeat of Doffy. Straight admitting fault and making the World Government look bad by exposing the truth. Something Smoker would go on to comment on saying that even if he had his rank he couldn't have done that. Now remember Smoker is renowned for being a wild dog, straight up disobeying orders and higher ups. So Fujitora is a step above that shit.
-> Made headline again with the Jack & Beast pirates incident (though not a huge thing).
-> Made headline with clashing against the RA Commanders (leaders of the WG's most hated enemy).
-> Was responsible for the biggest new and main headline that came out of the Reverie, even if he didn't get mentioned: Abolishment of the Warlords.
The man destroyed the "Three Great Powers" system. It's like the homie Green Bull puts it: "Ra Ha Ha Ha Ha Buddy you're crazy!!"
The biggest thing Ambition effects:
The biggest thing that makes a huge impact due to their ambition is.. Leadership. Fujitora was a huge upgrade in leadership to pair up with Sakazuki's ambition. As we've constantly seen he's focused on making the Marines independent. He doesn't want the marines to be corrupt, so he's taking steps to expose their corruptness when he can. He's taking steps to make sure his underlings know that when they as Marines fuck up, they gotta take responsibility. Biggest and most important, he's focused on making the Marines Stronger than ever before, as seen with him visiting Doctor Vegapunk to talk about the new force that'll be added to the Marines.
Now remember when Jinbei said Marines are more confident than ever before? Well this is why, because not only is there Sakazuki. They have an Admiral who's on the frontlines leading the Marines with great example.
So a huge upgrade in leadership due to the difference in their ambitions.
2nd. Prowess (Portrayal)
Now before getting into feats, I want to first go over the portrayal, which I find to be more important than feats when it comes to these two.
Portrayal with Sakazuki:
Kuzan - Sakazuki: In this we had opposite personalities, as showcased by their opposite elements. But really that is about it. Now of course Kuzan had different believes but he didn't really have an ideology, hence the "Lazy Justice", that countered Sakazuki's "Absolute Justice". Now some initially compared this to Sengoku - Garp, but they're nothing like Sengoku-Garp.
Fujitora - Sakazuki: In this we don't have opposition of personalities at all. In fact they have a lot more common in personality than not, which is sort of characterized in the Tiger & Dog zodiac signs as well. Ambitious men who won't back down from a decision they made. But what's important here is also that Sakazuki & Fujitora are actually close unlike Kuzan & Sakazuki (based on what we've been shown). Fujitora & Sakazuki are literally the two individuals we have seen talking to each other the most out of any of the Admirals + Sengoku & Garp (maybe the oldies beat them by a panel or two). We haven't seen Kizaru or Sakazuki interact that much. We haven't seen Kuzan and Sakazuki interact as much as them. We haven't seen Kizaru and Kuzan interact as much as them. But you see it's not just simple interaction that we're seeing with them ("hey / Hello/ What's up/ etc" type). It's IMPORTANT interaction we're seeing.
-> Conversation in start of Dressrosa: Fujitora addresses Sakazuki as "Saka" (not even his full name), they discuss about Doflamingo being a warlord again and how he managed to pull one up on them.
-> Conversation in end of Dressrosa: They have their heated argument.
-> Start of reverie (this isn't really a direct interaction but an action-> reaction): First thing we see Sakazuki react to is Fujitora coming to Mariejois :yasu: (oh man I fucking love that scene). Sakazuki calling him "Boy", even though he's only 2 years younger than Sakazuki (again implying them being close, similar to Fujitora calling him "Saka")
-> Conversation post-Reverie: They're seen discussing about the World Balance. And this is despite their argument at Dressrosa and Fujitora disobeying him. You'd think they'd be at differences or something.. but nope, they're talking normally about important issues. It's not even just a "yes sir/no sir" order conversation, but a solid back and forth. Hell Fujitora even tells Sakazuki off a little with: "You talk about Necessary sacrificess... you can only say such things cause you've never been one of them!!" And we see Sakazuki's reaction of "..!!" like.. "Well good point bro."
The only two other individuals in the Marines I can recall having a relationship/body like these two would be:
You got it.. I'm saying Fujitora & Sakazuki are the middle generation's Garp & Sengoku. A lot of people connected Kuzan to Sengoku because of Sengoku reccomending him.. But bruh Sengoku was nothing like Kuzan. In fact the guy who's actually like Sengoku the most is.... Sakazuki.. which is plain cut visible when they're executing that plan with Squard. Sengoku's also got that hot-headedness in him similar to Sakazuki, while also insane compsure (we only saw Sengoku's chill side after retirement, completely different from his as a Fleet Admiral or even an Admiral). Now Sakazuki is a more extreme version of Sengoku. Fujitora is also an extreme version of Garp, if Garp had ambitions to change the world and etc, he would essentially be Fujitora. He's a wild dog defying authority left and right just like Garp did. He's got the goofy/chill side to him mostly, but can get heated for shit that's important to him.
Now they're not identical clones, if they were, there wouldn't be point in creating them. But the point is how similar the two duos are. You have the wild dog doing his thing not listening, while the other smart guy trying to make him listen and what have you. Yet at end of the day both are friends.
Justice Portrayal:
In the world of one piece we have this thing called Absolute Justice that's been practiced by the Marines. This is something they've followed from ages, even if people like Sengoku have had their own personal forms of Justice. The Marine doctrine for Justice has always been Absolute Justice. A doctrine that's backed by the World Government and best embodied in Sakazuki.
However, this doctrine is being questioned and changed by a marine Admiral with the named of Fujitora. Who has been going against the World Government's ordeals and wants since his entrance. A character that Oda has implied to be anti-WG in a SBS. This man comes in with "Moral Justice", something based on real world perspective of Justice. And his leadership is as active as Sakazuki's in the Marines as pointed out above.
So he represents the champion of Moral Justice's fight against Absolute Justice. No other form of Justice in One Piece stands directly against Absolute Justice (though we haven't seen Green Bull's so who knows).
Timeskip Portrayal:
During the timeskip, all of the entities around the world were getting stronger, by gaining more people + making their own stronger. Worst Generation members/ Yonko/RA/etc. Marines did the samething. They changed up their top leadership. The Fleet Admiral position got an upgrade from Sakazuki.... but the admiral position got a degrade?? That doesn't make any sense. Remember as earlier pointed out, the admiral position represents the top power of the World Government. Sakazuki (Fleet Admiral) & Kong (CIC) are excluded from this as they're administrators. It would only make sense that as the Fleet Admiral position was upgraded, the admiral position would be upgraded as well... with the Purple Tiger & Green Bull. Meaning post-TS Kizaru/GB/Fujitora > Pre-TS Kizaru/Kuzan/Akainu (Post-TS Sakazuki is a whole different issue). Because if the Marines are stronger ever before, then the three individuals who represent their might should represent them being stronger than ever before.
Not even taking into account that in the Chinese Zodiac out of the top 3 symbols that represent "power" 2 of them are the Tiger & the Bull (the other being Dragon, which could potentially be represented by Monkey D. Dragon). And Oda introduced these two Zodiac signs to the position of Admiral, post-TS when the Marines are stated to have gotten FAR stronger than ever before.
So few things:
-> Fujitora creates a bigger threat for Sakazuki than Kuzan did, by being as ambitious as Sakazuki while also standing in the way of Absolute Justice.
-> Fujitora/Saka are the current ruling generation's (Middle generation's) Garp/Sengoku.
-> The Admiral position got an upgrade just like the rest of the Marines, meaning GB & PT > Pre-TS Kuzan and Akainu
Prowess (Feats)
Devil fruit:
Both have great AoE Feats. Kuzan was able to freeze a Tsunami many times the size of Marineford Island. Where as Fujitora was able to lift Island's worth of rubble into the air among the clouds.
Range-wise Kuzan was able to reach across islands when he froze the sea for that guy who needed to catch up to his family. Fujitora can send gravity ways all the way up to the high atmosphere.
Kuzan has the Logia hax, which requires haki users to counter, Fujitora has his gravity pressing powers.
They have different types of feats with different fruits. Not really comparable. There are of course still unknowns like their awakenings and Fujitora's control over gravity is still questionable (as to what extent he controls it and who he can effect).
Haki:
Kuzan has the implied FS feat, but other than that nothing showcased due to only fighting pre-TS. Fujitora on the other hand has insane CoO on-panel.
So hard to gauge again.
Physically:
Kuzan is in prime shape. Fujitora is growing physically weaker, despite only being 53. Fujitora is also blind. However, his physical weaknesses can possibly be made up by his mastery in swordsmanship.
So here again nothing conclusive.
Showcasings:
Kuzan was effectively dealing with Jozu, without a single huff. Fujitora was effectively dealing with Sabo. (I don't want to bother addressing the "huffing" against Luffy as it's already been addresses multiple times).
So really feats for them come in different situations where one might do better than the other simply based on their completely different powers and fighting styles. This is why I focused heavily on the portrayal rather than feats because we have seen neither go all out on-panel.
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Fujitora was a much needed upgrade over Kuzan in power and leadership. And he's showcasing it effectively by headlining the world news consistently since the post-TS started. And being a great example to follow for his fellow Marines, by taking actions that he'd want his subordinates to take. It is best not to go on his old weak man looking persona vs Kuzan's young look. Because hidden in that "weak man old man look" is a Tiger. An entity unlike any other to exist in the Marines... and the entity who has destroyed the balance of the three powers.
Don't say I ain't warn ya when GB & PT start layin the smack down on people's asses.
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PS: Needed to relieve some stress before upcoming finals week, figured why not contribute to my favorite anime forum <3. Hope all of you my friends are doing wonderful and great.
Sakazuki lovers / wankers
- Mainly just in it for Sakazuki. Their knowledge or understanding of rest of the marines is often low or plain out consider the rest to be trash. This portion of the "Marine fans" sees a cross between Yonko fanboys and Admiral fanboys.
Garp & Sengoku lovers/wankers - These fans could give a monkey's ass about the rest. This group often includes Yonko lovers and wankers and even Sword boys.
Admiral lovers/wankers - Don't let the name fool you. These individuals usually just have a fetish for "C3" or the "Logia Trio". They normally could careless about rest of the marines, whether it be other admirals or Vice Admirals or etc.
The Marine lovers/wankers - The rare breed of fans who dedicate themselves to researching the Marine organization and supporting all of it's members. Exposing the false agendas created against them by the fandom.
It is important to know the difference, calling somebody who is a Sakazuki wanker a marine fanboy is a grave insult to the Sakazuki wanker, who work day and night to showcase the superiority of the man they call The Red Dog (Same applies to Admira/Garp/Sengoku wankers).
Garp & Sengoku lovers/wankers - These fans could give a monkey's ass about the rest. This group often includes Yonko lovers and wankers and even Sword boys.
Admiral lovers/wankers - Don't let the name fool you. These individuals usually just have a fetish for "C3" or the "Logia Trio". They normally could careless about rest of the marines, whether it be other admirals or Vice Admirals or etc.
The Marine lovers/wankers - The rare breed of fans who dedicate themselves to researching the Marine organization and supporting all of it's members. Exposing the false agendas created against them by the fandom.
It is important to know the difference, calling somebody who is a Sakazuki wanker a marine fanboy is a grave insult to the Sakazuki wanker, who work day and night to showcase the superiority of the man they call The Red Dog (Same applies to Admira/Garp/Sengoku wankers).
Now on a serious note, let's talk about the thread title. Based off of the threads I've read regarding the admirals the common census seems to be putting Kuzan/Sakazuki above the rest with Kizaru in the mix. While the new admirals are considered their inferiors because of some weird concept of "C3" / "original three"/ or w.e ideas fans came up with to group the three together. For me personally as an advocate researcher of the marines (y'all can probably check out my various long posts on exploring the Marines storylines or talking about their future), I find it weird that one would think the new admirals are inferior to the old. Now GreenBull is partially a mystery so I won't be talking about him, the subject rather is focused on Fujitora. Now since Kuzan is the one who left the Marines, I'll be going over why Fujitora is an upgrade over Kuzan.
(This is not a Kuzan hate-thread or bashing thread or underrating thread. This is a justification thread for the new admirals. Kuzan is one of my boys as he was a marine and still helps out the marines, so won't catch any hating here. Pointing this out so nobody jumps into the thread with "got to defend Kuzan's pride" mentality.)
Setting the Stage:
Kuzan served as an Admiral of the marines under the leadership of Sengoku for many years, possibly even a decade (who knows). Fujitora serves as an Admiral of the marines under the leadership of Sakazuki just about a year and half ( or maybe even less, dependent on when he joined over the timeskip).
Currently the situation with the Marines is the following:
-> They are stronger than they have ever been in their entire history. The upgrade in their prowess is visible enough for somebody like Jinbei to make that claim. The important factor here is that this is without the SSG, as Jinbei wouldn't know about it considering its a top Marine secret. Now it's one thing to be "stronger than before", it's completely different thing to be "FAR more powerful than before". That "Far" implying a big upgrade in prowess.
-> They are also more determined than ever before under the great leadership of Fleet Admiral Sakazuki. So the leadership of the Marines had gotten an upgrade. Leading to Marines with more confidence & determination. This is also visible to the public eye as somebody like Jinbei, an enemy of the marines, was able to point it out to Luffy.
Why is Kuzan considered more powerful than Fujitora:
1st. He's part of the mythical "C3", which some seem to think are the "top marines" based off of Robin's comment (I couldn't track down any other basis for the "C3" mythical hype). Robin's statement in reality was simply about the position of "admiral", rather than a directly about the people in the position. For example "they are so powerful because they are admirals.." The position of Admiral being used to hype up the three individuals, rather than the three individuals being used to hype up the admiral position. No matter the era, the ones in the "Admiral" position are considered the "top powers" of the World Government, that's what the position is there for. Because they're the ones who're actively fighting, not the fleet admiral. It was the samething in Roger's era. Sengoku & Garp were the ones actively fighting not Kong. Samething we see currently, Fujitora/ Green Bull / Kizaru are the ones actively doing things and fighting, not Sakazuki.
2nd. The Sakazuki vs Kuzan fight. Which has a lot of misconceptions around it and also a lot of fan assumptions like "Kuzan let Sakazuki win" or how the fight was really close. And that this was a way of Oda showcasing them as the two powerful marines.
3rd. Garp's direct underling, so he's the successor to Garp. But this is partially based on fan assumptions. As far as we know the only who really trained the youngins was Z, and that's from a movie not even the manga. Kuzan simply owes Garp for something, we don't know what. The people who Garp trained personally himself end up having similar fighting styles as him: Luffy, Ace, and Koby... aka brawlers. Nothing so far implies he's that. Even in ideology, personality, etc they aren't alike.
4th. His feats are superior. His feats are solid, like the insta freezing a Tsunami many times the size of MF. Or performance against Jozu. Where as Fujitora has the being pushed back by G3 Luffy, then the whole thing with "huffing". (I'll be addressing these in a later section).
These are the main crucial reasons I could find why people consider Kuzan to be more powerful than Fujitora. If there are other you'd like me to address feel free to post them.
The Main Argument:
The main argument will be divided into multiple parts for breaking down why Fujitora is the much needed upgrade.
1st. Ambition
Kuzan based on his vivre card was once a fired up Marine ready to change things, but overtime switched his motto to "lazy justice". For a good portion of the time the man spent his time lazying around and doing the normal paperwork that's required.
With Fujitora it's a whole different situation. Fujitora has ambitious goals in wanting to "correct" the corruption of the world, and specifically the World Government. He's seen fucked up shit and he decided to join the Marines to accomplish those goals (just as Kuzan was once fired up about it). The moment he got the position of Admiral, he started doing things, contrary to Kuzan who in that same position spent his time lazying around.
Attitude effected by ambition:
This ambition also causes a huge difference in their decision making & attitude. Kuzan after losing to Sakazuki left the Marines. He fights Sakazuki because he doesn't want to be under Sakazuki, due to Sakazuki's "absolute justice" motto. Fujitora on the other hand is causing big changes for the good of the world, even if they go against Sakazuki & World Government. For example his thinking is along the lines of:
"Cover up for the World Government? No sir, not on my watch. We fucked up, we'll admit to the fuck up.
World Government and Sakazuki want to keep the warlords even if they're bad? I don't give a fuck, they're fucking up countries, we're getting done with them. Just means we need to strengthen the Marines more."
^^ (That sounds like the attitude a certain somebody who Kuzan owes a debt to has.)
There's 1 man who's keeping his ambition strong and making sure he achieves his goal while strengthening the Marines and making them self-independent, even if his leader is somebody who he doesn't agree with. The other one challenges the person he doesn't agree with and then leaves the organization, despite being beloved by many of the subordinates.
Accomplishments achieved due to ambition:
Kuzan has been a marine admiral for maybe little less than a decade (I reckon 5-10 years). What did he accomplish? Nothing. I'm sure he fought strong pirates and etc, which is a regular marine duty. But he really didn't accomplish anything ground breaking that we know of.
Fujitora in a year and half has been making headlines after headlines:
-> Made headline at Dressrosa - In parallel to Law/Luffy's defeat of Doffy. Straight admitting fault and making the World Government look bad by exposing the truth. Something Smoker would go on to comment on saying that even if he had his rank he couldn't have done that. Now remember Smoker is renowned for being a wild dog, straight up disobeying orders and higher ups. So Fujitora is a step above that shit.
-> Made headline again with the Jack & Beast pirates incident (though not a huge thing).
-> Made headline with clashing against the RA Commanders (leaders of the WG's most hated enemy).
-> Was responsible for the biggest new and main headline that came out of the Reverie, even if he didn't get mentioned: Abolishment of the Warlords.
The man destroyed the "Three Great Powers" system. It's like the homie Green Bull puts it: "Ra Ha Ha Ha Ha Buddy you're crazy!!"
The biggest thing Ambition effects:
The biggest thing that makes a huge impact due to their ambition is.. Leadership. Fujitora was a huge upgrade in leadership to pair up with Sakazuki's ambition. As we've constantly seen he's focused on making the Marines independent. He doesn't want the marines to be corrupt, so he's taking steps to expose their corruptness when he can. He's taking steps to make sure his underlings know that when they as Marines fuck up, they gotta take responsibility. Biggest and most important, he's focused on making the Marines Stronger than ever before, as seen with him visiting Doctor Vegapunk to talk about the new force that'll be added to the Marines.
Now remember when Jinbei said Marines are more confident than ever before? Well this is why, because not only is there Sakazuki. They have an Admiral who's on the frontlines leading the Marines with great example.
So a huge upgrade in leadership due to the difference in their ambitions.
2nd. Prowess (Portrayal)
Now before getting into feats, I want to first go over the portrayal, which I find to be more important than feats when it comes to these two.
Portrayal with Sakazuki:
Kuzan - Sakazuki: In this we had opposite personalities, as showcased by their opposite elements. But really that is about it. Now of course Kuzan had different believes but he didn't really have an ideology, hence the "Lazy Justice", that countered Sakazuki's "Absolute Justice". Now some initially compared this to Sengoku - Garp, but they're nothing like Sengoku-Garp.
Fujitora - Sakazuki: In this we don't have opposition of personalities at all. In fact they have a lot more common in personality than not, which is sort of characterized in the Tiger & Dog zodiac signs as well. Ambitious men who won't back down from a decision they made. But what's important here is also that Sakazuki & Fujitora are actually close unlike Kuzan & Sakazuki (based on what we've been shown). Fujitora & Sakazuki are literally the two individuals we have seen talking to each other the most out of any of the Admirals + Sengoku & Garp (maybe the oldies beat them by a panel or two). We haven't seen Kizaru or Sakazuki interact that much. We haven't seen Kuzan and Sakazuki interact as much as them. We haven't seen Kizaru and Kuzan interact as much as them. But you see it's not just simple interaction that we're seeing with them ("hey / Hello/ What's up/ etc" type). It's IMPORTANT interaction we're seeing.
-> Conversation in start of Dressrosa: Fujitora addresses Sakazuki as "Saka" (not even his full name), they discuss about Doflamingo being a warlord again and how he managed to pull one up on them.
-> Conversation in end of Dressrosa: They have their heated argument.
-> Start of reverie (this isn't really a direct interaction but an action-> reaction): First thing we see Sakazuki react to is Fujitora coming to Mariejois :yasu: (oh man I fucking love that scene). Sakazuki calling him "Boy", even though he's only 2 years younger than Sakazuki (again implying them being close, similar to Fujitora calling him "Saka")
-> Conversation post-Reverie: They're seen discussing about the World Balance. And this is despite their argument at Dressrosa and Fujitora disobeying him. You'd think they'd be at differences or something.. but nope, they're talking normally about important issues. It's not even just a "yes sir/no sir" order conversation, but a solid back and forth. Hell Fujitora even tells Sakazuki off a little with: "You talk about Necessary sacrificess... you can only say such things cause you've never been one of them!!" And we see Sakazuki's reaction of "..!!" like.. "Well good point bro."
The only two other individuals in the Marines I can recall having a relationship/body like these two would be:
You got it.. I'm saying Fujitora & Sakazuki are the middle generation's Garp & Sengoku. A lot of people connected Kuzan to Sengoku because of Sengoku reccomending him.. But bruh Sengoku was nothing like Kuzan. In fact the guy who's actually like Sengoku the most is.... Sakazuki.. which is plain cut visible when they're executing that plan with Squard. Sengoku's also got that hot-headedness in him similar to Sakazuki, while also insane compsure (we only saw Sengoku's chill side after retirement, completely different from his as a Fleet Admiral or even an Admiral). Now Sakazuki is a more extreme version of Sengoku. Fujitora is also an extreme version of Garp, if Garp had ambitions to change the world and etc, he would essentially be Fujitora. He's a wild dog defying authority left and right just like Garp did. He's got the goofy/chill side to him mostly, but can get heated for shit that's important to him.
Now they're not identical clones, if they were, there wouldn't be point in creating them. But the point is how similar the two duos are. You have the wild dog doing his thing not listening, while the other smart guy trying to make him listen and what have you. Yet at end of the day both are friends.
Justice Portrayal:
In the world of one piece we have this thing called Absolute Justice that's been practiced by the Marines. This is something they've followed from ages, even if people like Sengoku have had their own personal forms of Justice. The Marine doctrine for Justice has always been Absolute Justice. A doctrine that's backed by the World Government and best embodied in Sakazuki.
However, this doctrine is being questioned and changed by a marine Admiral with the named of Fujitora. Who has been going against the World Government's ordeals and wants since his entrance. A character that Oda has implied to be anti-WG in a SBS. This man comes in with "Moral Justice", something based on real world perspective of Justice. And his leadership is as active as Sakazuki's in the Marines as pointed out above.
So he represents the champion of Moral Justice's fight against Absolute Justice. No other form of Justice in One Piece stands directly against Absolute Justice (though we haven't seen Green Bull's so who knows).
Timeskip Portrayal:
During the timeskip, all of the entities around the world were getting stronger, by gaining more people + making their own stronger. Worst Generation members/ Yonko/RA/etc. Marines did the samething. They changed up their top leadership. The Fleet Admiral position got an upgrade from Sakazuki.... but the admiral position got a degrade?? That doesn't make any sense. Remember as earlier pointed out, the admiral position represents the top power of the World Government. Sakazuki (Fleet Admiral) & Kong (CIC) are excluded from this as they're administrators. It would only make sense that as the Fleet Admiral position was upgraded, the admiral position would be upgraded as well... with the Purple Tiger & Green Bull. Meaning post-TS Kizaru/GB/Fujitora > Pre-TS Kizaru/Kuzan/Akainu (Post-TS Sakazuki is a whole different issue). Because if the Marines are stronger ever before, then the three individuals who represent their might should represent them being stronger than ever before.
Not even taking into account that in the Chinese Zodiac out of the top 3 symbols that represent "power" 2 of them are the Tiger & the Bull (the other being Dragon, which could potentially be represented by Monkey D. Dragon). And Oda introduced these two Zodiac signs to the position of Admiral, post-TS when the Marines are stated to have gotten FAR stronger than ever before.
So few things:
-> Fujitora creates a bigger threat for Sakazuki than Kuzan did, by being as ambitious as Sakazuki while also standing in the way of Absolute Justice.
-> Fujitora/Saka are the current ruling generation's (Middle generation's) Garp/Sengoku.
-> The Admiral position got an upgrade just like the rest of the Marines, meaning GB & PT > Pre-TS Kuzan and Akainu
Prowess (Feats)
Devil fruit:
Both have great AoE Feats. Kuzan was able to freeze a Tsunami many times the size of Marineford Island. Where as Fujitora was able to lift Island's worth of rubble into the air among the clouds.
Range-wise Kuzan was able to reach across islands when he froze the sea for that guy who needed to catch up to his family. Fujitora can send gravity ways all the way up to the high atmosphere.
Kuzan has the Logia hax, which requires haki users to counter, Fujitora has his gravity pressing powers.
They have different types of feats with different fruits. Not really comparable. There are of course still unknowns like their awakenings and Fujitora's control over gravity is still questionable (as to what extent he controls it and who he can effect).
Haki:
Kuzan has the implied FS feat, but other than that nothing showcased due to only fighting pre-TS. Fujitora on the other hand has insane CoO on-panel.
So hard to gauge again.
Physically:
Kuzan is in prime shape. Fujitora is growing physically weaker, despite only being 53. Fujitora is also blind. However, his physical weaknesses can possibly be made up by his mastery in swordsmanship.
So here again nothing conclusive.
Showcasings:
Kuzan was effectively dealing with Jozu, without a single huff. Fujitora was effectively dealing with Sabo. (I don't want to bother addressing the "huffing" against Luffy as it's already been addresses multiple times).
So really feats for them come in different situations where one might do better than the other simply based on their completely different powers and fighting styles. This is why I focused heavily on the portrayal rather than feats because we have seen neither go all out on-panel.
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Conclusion:
Fujitora was a much needed upgrade over Kuzan in power and leadership. And he's showcasing it effectively by headlining the world news consistently since the post-TS started. And being a great example to follow for his fellow Marines, by taking actions that he'd want his subordinates to take. It is best not to go on his old weak man looking persona vs Kuzan's young look. Because hidden in that "weak man old man look" is a Tiger. An entity unlike any other to exist in the Marines... and the entity who has destroyed the balance of the three powers.
Don't say I ain't warn ya when GB & PT start layin the smack down on people's asses.
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PS: Needed to relieve some stress before upcoming finals week, figured why not contribute to my favorite anime forum <3. Hope all of you my friends are doing wonderful and great.
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