Gakuki: where did he really stand?

#1
Hello folks,

Today I'm making this thread to discuss Gakuki, aka "The god of war". Because I think he's a bit of an interesting case.

So, when Gekishin is introduced, we also come to know of Gakuki. With this famous panel:


The man who saved Yan from a literal superstate and wrecked Qi so fucking hard that they fell from superpower status to their current one lol. He also, alone in the East, was able to preserve the balance of power across the whole China at the time of the Qin Six/Zhao Three.

Now, in some ways, the sheer volume of hype he received is simply incredible. One could argue for Gakuki scaling above any member of the old Qin Six/Zhao three gen in the manga.

That was a lot of years ago, though. Aside from the theme there kinda is about generations eventually growing stronger etc., we also have the figure of Gekishin. Gekishin was actually able to replicate Gakuki's warfare and when he faced Riboku, he got completely whooped. He received some degree of acknowledgment from Riboku ("most impressive") but nothing too crazy.

Now, Gekishin ain't Gakuki lol. I'm not arguing that. He certainly wasn't his equal.

Still, overall I think it's interesting to wonder where Gakuki would rank in comparison with other legendary Great Generals. In my opinion: I would put him roughly equal with the one I consider to be the strongest of the old gen of Qin Six/Zhap Three, Hakuki. He probably deserves that much. I don't think he stood outright above the strongest Qin Six. And of course, given all the Riboku/Gakuki comparisons that have been made, I certainly don't have him on par with or above Riboku lol.

Give your thoughts

@Elder Lee Hung @SakazOuki @MarineHQ @Owl Ki @TheKnightOfTheSea @Pirao @Cichy @Extravlad @Bepo @FutureWarrior123 @Monet @Blackbeard @Peroroncino @Bullet etc.
 
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#6
You can make a solid arguement of him being best of the old generation bar none.

Was keeping the balance of power across China, made a successful counter against a superstate.

Hara even gave him ridicusly good stats with him being the only old gen with 100 main stat.
 

Daniel

Don't mind the name tag
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#11
Hara treats the accepted history as merely suggestive to his own fictious version of it.
Purely based on the information that was given to us in the manga, he managed to ruster up a coalition army against Qi, which was supposed to be a superstate at the time, and shrunk it down to a tiny, middling state.

Despite being a single general, he alone was equivalent to the Three Great Heavens of Zhao as well as the Six Great Generals of Qin at the time, implying that his capabilities were above the other great generals from his era.

Isn't he basically just his era's version of Riboku with slightly better leadership + managing to win the coalition war instead of losing it?

That, and the king of Qi at the time most likely wasn't as ballsy as Ei Sei was so he would have basically wilted when he realized that the coalition army winning was a given at some point during the war.
Post automatically merged:

His Chinese name is supposed to be Yue Yi. Anyone here familiar with Chinese history prior to Qin Shi Huang and the 6 GGs era?
 
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TheKnightOfTheSea

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#14
That works, although I'd place Ousen in those ranks somewhere.

Gakuki = Riboku >= Ousen > Rin Shou Jo > Haku Ki > Renpa = Ouki

Replace Renpa with Chou Sha if the Three Great Heavens' 2 martial generals + 1 strategist ratio is true.
Why Rinshoujou above Ouki/Renpa? I think Chousha is on par with them I just didn't include for simplicity

I believe peak Ousen will be above everyone except for Peak Shin
 

Daniel

Don't mind the name tag
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#16
Rinshoujo gigastan, respect:steef:
He most likely (based on his stats) was the one responsible for formulating the main strategies against the Qin 6, and since Zhao only had 2 GGs that are capable of fighting in the battlefield.

At least 4 out of 6 of the Qin 6 were capable of fighting on the battlefield so strategies had to be formulated such that either Renpa and Chousha wouldn't constantly get pushed back in their battles.
 
#17
I don't like being rude normally for people's opinions. Nor do I generally care about if somebody has Hakuki over Ouki or Ousen over Riboku or etc. However... Gakuki is the one general where to me its like... bro... if you have anybody over Gakuki... your opinion is flat out stupid.


In the very arc where Qin 6 & Zhao 3 hyped up:

There is a stark difference in hype/portrayal in how Gakuki is mentioned in comparison to the others. Hara easily could've put down "Gakuki of Yan, Hakuki/Ouki/and other qin 6....", But nope... "Gakuki... who shook the very earth". And all of them are literally from the same era.

The Narrator himself:

How is it that in the manga of Kingdom, the narrator of the story tells us that this man by himself balanced out the power of the Qin 6/Zhao3, yet we constantly have non-sense of "b b b but Hakuki maaan he did this historically".. I don't think even Shonen fans are this absurd. This isn't a character's opinion, it's the narrator telling us straight up this man by himself was on the level of groups made of multiple GGs.



How is it that this man has the single greatest feat as a general/military commander in the entire series and it's constantly dismissed, while Hakuki's "hehehehe he invade Chu's capitall maaann!!! #1 ALL TIME!!! YAAH!!" is wanked to all hell or Renpa's Chouhei shit.

Comparing Gekishin copying some of Gakuki's strategical acumen is the equivalent of me rating Ousen based on the old man in Akou's units who knew some of Ousen's strategies and could implement them or even Akou... knowing there's a heaven and hell gap between Ousen and them.

Historically:

Liu Bang: The 1st emperor of Han, the man who waged war using the entirety of China as a battlefield. Considered Gakuki the Top 1.
Zhuge Liang: The top 1 strategist of the 3 Kingdoms if going by the romanticized novel, considered Gakuki the Top 1.
Yasuhisa Hara: The man who wrote the manga of Kingdom, considers this man to be Top 1.

He's the sole character of Kingdom where there should be no arguments over. If people don't want to accept it historically, cool. That shit is irrelevant to the series, within the confines of the series... this man is the greatest military commander to exist in China's history... and that shouldn't be up for a debate. This should be one of those consensus things "Yea bro Gakuki top 1".


The man existed in the same era as Ouki/Renpa/Hakuki/etc and got labeled "God of Military"... it's like me arguing Madara > Hashirama, Tobirama > Hashirama... when the dude is called God of Shinobi... Or arguing there was other Kings better than King Sho at warfare, when the man is labeled "God of Warfare".
 

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
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#20
He never claimed that. This is another nonsensical manga manipulation take like Gyou'un > Renpa. lol.

And bringing up Riboku with me of all people is insane.
He literally called Riboku an unprecedented commander. Unprecedented means no one has ever lived who is as strong as Riboku.

This about to be one of them moments where drugged Xione claims β€œthe martial might of Zhao” means β€œone of the martial mights of Zhao?” Lmfao
 
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