Gakuki: where did he really stand?

#21
He literally called Riboku an unprecedented commander. Unprecedented means no one has ever lived who is as strong as Riboku.

This about to be one of them moments where drugged Xione claims “the martial might of Zhao” means “one of the martial mights of Zhao?” Lmfao
Here you go at manipulating words. He never called Riboku an unprecedented commander. Just as Gyouun wasn't called the martial might of zhao.

- "Wore the MANTLE that symbolized Zhao's martial might" = "Is the top 1 martial might of Zhao"... because multiple can't wear the mantle yup.... Just like how when SHK called Shin the representative of Qin's martial might he was claiming Shin > Moubu, right? lol


He was specifically called AN ENEMY of an unprecedented level. Gakuki was never an enemy of Ouki or Qin.

Then in case you'll bring up the panel below of "considered the strongest will always be defeated by ...", Gakuki was never defeated:

It's hilarious to me brudda that you confidently wank on the "mantle" non-sense, and character statements like Ouki's.. but flat out disregard the narrator of the series stating Qin 6 ~ Zhao 3 ~ Gakuki.
 
#23
:milaugh::milaugh::milaugh::milaugh::milaugh:

Drugged Xione never disappoints.
Ouki when talking to the Qin soldiers: An enemy of unprecedented levels has appeared
You: Ouki said Riboku > Gakuki, the man who was never an enemy of Qin

The Narrator of the series: Qin 6 ~ Zhao 3 ~ Gakuki
You: Not convinced he's over Hakuki

Hakuki's biggest feat in the series: Getting stalemated by Renpa while having Ouki with him & burying 400k unarmed prisoners

But if calling me drugged makes you feel better about your takes go right ahead bruhz lol.
 

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
#24
The Narrator of the series: Qin 6 ~ Zhao 3 ~ Gakuki
You: Not convinced he's over Hakuki
Only a lunatic would read that statement as Gakuki = ALL 6 Qin 6 lmfao, how wrong can you possibly be.

If you interpret that statement in that manner, 1 Zhao 3 = 2 Qin 6 and I’m nearly positive you don’t believe that lmfao. In fact I recall you objecting to the notion that 1 Zhao 3 > 1 Qin 6 in my 3GH Agenda thread lmfao.

You can’t sit here and argue Gakuki = all 6 of the Qin 6 but then deny the other implications of that statement. If Gakuki was that powerful, his mini Gekishin would’ve defeated Riboku and Houken. But we all saw how that went when the guy who replicated Gakuki’s warfare got folded like a lawn chair by Houken.

The truth of that statement is obviously that Gakuki is a Qin 6/Zhao 3 level commander. Not that he by himself represented the power of those entire factions lmfao.

Hakuki's biggest feat in the series: Getting stalemated by Renpa while having Ouki with him & burying 400k unarmed prisoners
Mmmmmmm…Hakuki’s biggest portrayal was him being praised as the strongest Qin 6 by Renpa (portrayal >Ouki) and named the leader of the old Qin 6 by King Sho.
 
#27
Only a lunatic would read that statement as Gakuki = ALL 6 Qin 6 lmfao, how wrong can you possibly be.

If you interpret that statement in that manner, 1 Zhao 3 = 2 Qin 6 and I’m nearly positive you don’t believe that lmfao. In fact I recall you objecting to the notion that 1 Zhao 3 > 1 Qin 6 in my 3GH Agenda thread lmfao.

You can’t sit here and argue Gakuki = all 6 of the Qin 6 but then deny the other implications of that statement. If Gakuki was that powerful, his mini Gekishin would’ve defeated Riboku and Houken. But we all saw how that went when the guy who replicated Gakuki’s warfare got folded like a lawn chair by Houken.

The truth of that statement is obviously that Gakuki is a Qin 6/Zhao 3 level commander. Not that he by himself represented the power of those entire factions lmfao.
1st. I never claimed Gakuki = the groups, I used the "~" to imply of similar level. Yes, do you not understand what a balance of power is?? Lol.

2nd. I have never disagreed with the notion that Zhao 3 are of the same level as the Qin 6 as a group. The Zhao 3 have far superior underlings to anything the Qin 6 have shown, besides Ouki having Tou. What I disagreed with was the individual general matchups of who was superior to who.

3rd. And this is how I know you're just being a low Iq troll right now lmao, the fact you brought in Gekishin. The old man who knew Ousen's strategies that you was deep throating when hyping up Gyou'un's prowess represented Ousen's strategical prowess right? lmao.
Like I have 0 idea why you continue to be disingenuous when you just want to run off bad agendas. I'm pretty sure you were the mf that posted the narrator's statement of "replicated Gakuki's warfare", but then left out the part where the narrator states it only had similarities to Gakuki's warfare. I'm hoping it wasn't you, but with you mentioning that bum Gekishin whose hype the narrator exposed, it might've been.

- In the very arc they're brought up: "Gakuki of Yan who shook the very earth".... that is the hype given by Hara to the guy who was in the same era as Ouki/Hakuki/Renpa
- He was dubbed "The God of Military", while being in the same generation as Qin 6/Zhao 3 in the manga. You are the same guy who deep throats "mantle of Zhao's martial might" for Gyou'un > Renpa, and ignore this mf was called the GOD of military over the Qin 6 and Zhao 3.

CLASS, what is a balance of power across of China. HMMMMMMMMM HMMMMMMMMM??
Teacher teacher teacher.... I know... it's when there are 6 people on the same level on the left, 3 people of their level with strong underlings in the middle, and 1 person of their level on the right. HEHEHEHEHE That is the balance of power!!

Like holy shit bruh, tell me you did not just say that when the narrator talks about maintaining the balance of power across China, he's talking about this mf just being on their level... LOL. HOLLYYY SHIIIT. Yooo this is some low IQ yonkotard shit. Nahh nahh this that Madara > Hashirama non-sense Madara fans used to cry about.

Whether it be through the acumen of having absurdly strong underlings or he himself being that great of a general, this man was able to balance out the military prowess brought upon by those groups. That does not mean he can effectively beat them. Balance of power isn't about equals, it's about an equilibrium created to the point where one can't overcome the other. Nonetheless, this is a bigger accomplishment/feat/portrayal than anything any individual Qin6/Zhao 3 has going for them.


Mmmmmmm…Hakuki’s biggest portrayal was him being praised as the strongest Qin 6 by Renpa (portrayal >Ouki) and named the leader of the old Qin 6 by King Sho.
I said feat not hype.
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It only means Gakuki was the leading figure on the eastern plains similar to how the other groups dominated their regions
I’m getting 1 Yonko crew = MarineHQ flashbacks with this one
:sanmoji:
BRRUUHHH YOU THOUGHT YOU GOT ME WITH THAT YONKO ISH??!!


The Yonko are a group, Gakuki is not a group. That's the equivelent of somebody saying Renpa = Qin 6, cause Zhao 3 was balancing out Qin 6. Where you take an individual out of the group to give the credit for the group's contribution to the role in power of balance.

And no that is not what that panel specifically means. The panel that establishes him as being the top dog of the East is the panel below, which happens at the very start.



The below panel is specifically talking about a balance of power that existed between the 3 sections of China. Idk why we're acting like we don't know what a balance of power all of a suddenly means lol.
 
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#28
The below panel is specifically talking about a balance of power that existed between the 3 sections of China. Idk why we're acting like we don't know what a balance of power all of a suddenly means lol.
Was there really a balance of power though, I’m not taking this vague potentially mistranslated tiny panel over pre established narrative, Qin was dogwalking the entirety of China in that era

Where does Chu and its tiger stand in this equation, it has no basis really
 
#29
Was there really a balance of power though, I’m not taking this vague potentially mistranslated tiny panel over pre established narrative, Qin was dogwalking the entirety of China in that era

Where does Chu and its tiger stand in this equation, it has no basis really
The Tiger of Chu rises into power after their era (Post Hakuki and co destroying the Chu). I assume Gakuki probably had some insane underlings as well, but that'll also speak to his prowess in a way.

The key words Moubu mentions is during King Sho's reign, Gakuki wasn't alive for the entire reign of King Sho. King Sho died, iirc only about 5-10 years before the series start? After Gakuki's fall, the east doesn't have a dominating figure who people could just point to.

- "God of Military", this is what people consider him as...
- In a completely different stratosphere in experience
- No general has accomplished the feat he accomplished from a military commander accumen. You join the state when it's on the verge of being wiped off the map by a superstate, you then counter that military prowess, your feats are so great in that counter that China is willing to join a coalition under you... a level of credibility that Riboku got after defeating Ouki and Gekishin who had similar false hype as Ouki... and even then Shunshinkun who took 20 years to turn Chu into a military powerhouse was the official leader. He then effectively wiped off the superstate, until the newly elected king replaced him, due to fear of Gakuki taking over as the King, when there was just 2 cities remaining.
The moment he got replaced Qi tore through the army and got back a giant chunk. And unlike Riboku + Shunshinkun, he didn't slyther his way to the capital, mans took down every single city the Qi had.

The very people who hype up Ouki as a hero of an era, are the ones talking about him like he was a god.

I don't see how after that we come to the conclusion that the writer of the manga wants us to believe that it's a discussion between him and other generals of his time, let alone modern-day generals who haven't even sniffed his accomplishments and hype.

Like we know Hakuki/Ouki vs Kyou is not a discussion, the former are superior. Their presentation, portrayal, feats are superior. Similar is the case between Gakuki and them imo.
 

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
#30
1st. I never claimed Gakuki = the groups, I used the "~" to imply of similar level. Yes, do you not understand what a balance of power is?? Lol.
Mmmmmmkay, so why did you bring this up then? Gakuki being on the level of the Q6/Z3 was never denied, and it certainly does nothing to suggest he was above them lol.

2nd. I have never disagreed with the notion that Zhao 3 are of the same level as the Qin 6 as a group. The Zhao 3 have far superior underlings to anything the Qin 6 have shown, besides Ouki having Tou. What I disagreed with was the individual general matchups of who was superior to who.


So you’re a member of the 3GH Agenda now right?? RIGHT?????

3rd. And this is how I know you're just being a low Iq troll right now lmao, the fact you brought in Gekishin. The old man who knew Ousen's strategies that you was deep throating when hyping up Gyou'un's prowess represented Ousen's strategical prowess right? lmao.
Like I have 0 idea why you continue to be disingenuous when you just want to run off bad agendas. I'm pretty sure you were the mf that posted the narrator's statement of "replicated Gakuki's warfare", but then left out the part where the narrator states it only had similarities to Gakuki's warfare. I'm hoping it wasn't you, but with you mentioning that bum Gekishin whose hype the narrator exposed, it might've been.
Okay hyperbole aside, how does Gekishin indicate that Gakuki was superior to Riboku exactly? Gekishin is a major indicator that Riboku > Gakuki. Lol

- He was dubbed "The God of Military", while being in the same generation as Qin 6/Zhao 3 in the manga. You are the same guy who deep throats "mantle of Zhao's martial might" for Gyou'un > Renpa, and ignore this mf was called the GOD of military over the Qin 6 and Zhao 3.
Mmmmmkay, but I never denied Gakuki being a top tier? Lol

What I denied was him being top 1. He could be top 2 or 3 I guess but I’m not convinced.

Nonetheless, this is a bigger accomplishment/feat/portrayal than anything any individual Qin6/Zhao 3 has going for them.
In that much we agree at least, Gakuki’s Coalition feat is probably the all time best feat.
 
#31
Mmmmmmkay, so why did you bring this up then? Gakuki being on the level of the Q6/Z3 was never denied, and it certainly does nothing to suggest he was above them lol.





So you’re a member of the 3GH Agenda now right?? RIGHT?????



Okay hyperbole aside, how does Gekishin indicate that Gakuki was superior to Riboku exactly? Gekishin is a major indicator that Riboku > Gakuki. Lol



Mmmmmkay, but I never denied Gakuki being a top tier? Lol

What I denied was him being top 1. He could be top 2 or 3 I guess but I’m not convinced.



In that much we agree at least, Gakuki’s Coalition feat is probably the all time best feat.
NAH HOLD ON HOLD ON.

What is going on with the "mmmmmmmm" "mmmmmm" Did something happen while I was away?

Post automatically merged:



So you’re a member of the 3GH Agenda now right?? RIGHT?????

Riboku > Ouki > Rest

Whatever that makes me, I'm in.



But I think it just primarily hinders on how much you value having strong subordinates as a general's ability. Idk, how you feel about that? Like I think Kyou-RSJ is a convo, but I don't see Kyou having anything to match the 10 heroes.
 
#32
The Tiger of Chu rises into power after their era (Post Hakuki and co destroying the Chu). I assume Gakuki probably had some insane underlings as well, but that'll also speak to his prowess in a way.

The key words Moubu mentions is during King Sho's reign, Gakuki wasn't alive for the entire reign of King Sho. King Sho died, iirc only about 5-10 years before the series start? After Gakuki's fall, the east doesn't have a dominating figure who people could just point to.

- "God of Military", this is what people consider him as...
- In a completely different stratosphere in experience
- No general has accomplished the feat he accomplished from a military commander accumen. You join the state when it's on the verge of being wiped off the map by a superstate, you then counter that military prowess, your feats are so great in that counter that China is willing to join a coalition under you... a level of credibility that Riboku got after defeating Ouki and Gekishin who had similar false hype as Ouki... and even then Shunshinkun who took 20 years to turn Chu into a military powerhouse was the official leader. He then effectively wiped off the superstate, until the newly elected king replaced him, due to fear of Gakuki taking over as the King, when there was just 2 cities remaining.
The moment he got replaced Qi tore through the army and got back a giant chunk. And unlike Riboku + Shunshinkun, he didn't slyther his way to the capital, mans took down every single city the Qi had.

The very people who hype up Ouki as a hero of an era, are the ones talking about him like he was a god.

I don't see how after that we come to the conclusion that the writer of the manga wants us to believe that it's a discussion between him and other generals of his time, let alone modern-day generals who haven't even sniffed his accomplishments and hype.

Like we know Hakuki/Ouki vs Kyou is not a discussion, the former are superior. Their presentation, portrayal, feats are superior. Similar is the case between Gakuki and them imo.
I mean, Gakuki is certainly an exceptional general
There is another man revered as a "God of War", it is just that his splendor has not yet been fleshed out in the manga
Many people downplay manga Hakuki as an inferior version to real life Hakuki for some reason. There are some minor changes to his achievements, but his overall portrayal will remain the same, an undefeated god of war who ravaged China
Manga Gakuki is in the same tier of great but I'll always take the real life goat

This is an interesting read check it out
This thread contains history spoilers, tho only limited to past events, mainly the life of Hakuki, but nothing of the current or future events of the manga

-The Thread isn't concerned with the Chouhei tragedy, but Hakuki's life itself

Known as 'Lord of Martial Peace' by some, and the 'Human Butcher' to others, but he was universally known as a 'God of War'.
A couple weeks ago I delved into Bai Qi's biography, and I was shocked beyond measure at the greatness of this man, and it is not only limited to China, Hakuki, aka as Bai Qi, could very well make it to the top 10 brightest and most powerful generals in history.

At first I expected Hakuki to be this old school general who wants nothing but to win wars and sack cities, but this is where the surprise was.
Whats makes Hakuki the most unique general of all was the fact that claiming cities and simply winning wars was not really valuable in his eyes, his true aim lied elsewhere, the destruction of enemy states manpower. This is such a powerful statement, you'd be tricked at first into thinking Ouki was the lead 6GG when it came to making the unification dream become a reality, but its dead wrong, Hakuki was the biggest dreamer in Qin, arguably more so than King Sho himself.

Hara disrespected Hakuki's legacy on two occasions so far, the first is when he claimed Ko Shou was the one to devise the plans for Qin's six, which is absolute bullocks in real history. Hakuki was the commander of the Qin military and Prime Minister of Qin for decades, Koshou is 'mostly' fictional like Ouki.

The second is Chouhei. In the manga, Renpa holds Zhao defense for 2 years against the might of Hakuki and Ouki, which he could've managed irl but that's not what happened. For the first 2 years it was Oukutsu alone who faced Renpa, and after Renpa was replaced, King Sho ordered Hakuki to take the mantle and he instantly crushed the Zhao armies. Chouhei was so great a win that it literally paved the way to China's unification.

And its not simply about winning the war, but winning it the Hakuki way. So this was the battle of Chouhei historically;
-Oukutsu breaks Renpa's 450,000 strong first line of defense
-Oukutsu unable to penetrate Renpa's second line of defense that lied along a river, stalemate for 2 years

Renpa out, Hakuki secretly appointed as commander
The first thing Choukustu did was to quickly cross the river and attack Qin's left flank, but unbeknownst to him Hakuki had deliberately weakened the left flank and anticipated Zhao making such a move. Behind Qin's left flank, Hakuki built one of his impentrable famed fortresses, and had his left flank fall back there and lure the Zhao army further in. Hakuki immediately sent a 25,000 detachment north and cut off Zhao's supplies, while he sent another 5000 missile cavalry to cut off the road between Choukutsu's new camp and his main HQ. Bai Qi himself followed soon and secured the river exits. With Zhao unable to progress past Hakuki's hill fortress, they were left trapped in a triangular encirclement.

Choukutsu had no choice but to retreat, and naturally suffered heavy casualties by doing so. Eventually, the Zhao army were entrapped and running low on supplies by the minute. Usually the other states would send reinforcements to Zhao at this point, but how could they when Hakuki has been hammering in their frontlines for decades. This was the reason for Qin targeting its main rival Zhao to begin with.
For 46 days, Hakuki launched attack after attack against the Zhao army, who were so desperate that some records claim the Zhao soldiers resorted to cannibalism after they were done with horses. Eventually, Choukutsu was shot by an arrow after he unsuccessfully lead a last charge against the encirclement.

The battle is won, 400,000 broken soldiers laid there waiting to return home, but Hakuki had different plans.
We know Hakuki never participates in wars he cannot win, and after this battle he was sure as hell he could claim Kantan. The way he saw it, these soldiers would've stood in Qin's way after they free them, and Hakuki had no time to spend, so naturally he would take the blame for this massacre in order to ensure Qin's dream of unification, but killing 400,000 soldiers was not enough for Hakuki.
He. Buried. Them. Alive

Meanwhile the other 5 states hearing the news;
Qin killed 400,000 prisoners

By burying them alive

Hakuki only saw one thing, unification, and he built the stairway to this unification dream using these dead bodies among other lives he claimed. He even freed a couple hundred prisoners to spread fear among the other states, you can imagine the terror.

Some of you might question why King Sho didn't take action against Hakuki after this massacre, but the sad reality is that he was rather delighted instead of furious. This shonen manga aside, King Sho was as bloody as they get, and for him to have a general like Bai Qi who'd take this weight off his shoulders is more than he can ask.
After Chouhei, Qin became the most prominent state while the others went on defensive mode for quite some time.

It is worthy of note that Bai Qi only killed trained soldiers on the battlefields, never civilians, contrary to what the manga says.

After Hakuki set his eyes on Kantan, Zhao managed to convince one of Qin's ministers that Hakuki was aiming to claim Zhao for himself. This minister then convinced King Sho that the Qin army must be weary at this point so he called them back. On his journey home Hakuki fell ill.
If King Sho was an actual God of War, Ouki would've been Kingdom's MC and not Shin

3 years later, an incompetent King Sho decides to attack Kantan and fails miserably at that. After four months, with Hakuki seemingly recovered from his illness, Sho asks Hakuki to lead the armies, but Hakuki knew it was a losing battle and refused the kings order using his illness as an excuse, and urged Sho to retreat his armies.
Sho didn't listen, and appointed Oukotso as the leader, but it was no use still, Chu and Wei stood with Zhao and crushed the Qin.

Sho asked Hakuki a second time but he refused again. As Hakuki said it, he would rather be executed for refusing the King's order than lose his undefeated streak.
What did small dick Sho do after this? He stripped Hakuki of all land and titles, reducing him to a mere foot soldier...
The same minister who convinced Sho to send the Qin armies back from Kantan, warned Sho of Hakuki's potential betrayal. Fearing Hakuki would end up joining another state, Sho sent Hakuki a knife. Who knows what would've happened to China if Sho allowed Hakuki to destroy Zhao back then, but to think that even tho he claimed countless cities and terrorized the entirety of China, his king didn't allow him to reach his full potential. That's crazy.

Before he committed suicide, Hakuki stated that he deserved such a tragic end after the atrocities he committed.
As bloody as he was Hakuki knew this was the only way to unification, and as sad as it might be, this has been the case throughout China's history.
Fun fact, Mao Zedong killed x60 more people than Hakuki

Anyway, with all that said, this man was a real character with a weight that shoulders kingdoms. After his passing, Qin's citizens were devastated at their most beloved general, he was worshipped far and wide as the savior of the kingdom. As it was known back then, as long as Hakuki draws breath, no one could lay thier hands on Qin.

Undeafeated, undisputed and unrivalled under the heavens, China's mightiest, Bai Qi

 
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