Well overall I agree with this post, this is very healthy discussion and I like it.
I'll say this, it is actually established in this manga that Haki is a person's life force, that's why every person posses Haki, obviously Rayleigh was referring to CoA there as CoC is rare, only special few among millions are born with it.
But Haki is a person's presence, his aura, his assence.
When Luffy and Zoro need break, they are Low on Haki, just like we are low on stamina when we work out too much. But they don't 100% run out of it because running out of Haki in One Piece means your life has ended.
Chakra and Ki are the same way in Naruto and DBZ respectively right?
So I am not sure how Luffy got his Haki back after dying.
How did the idea of death work there?
If Luffy died, his Haki, and his essence died too right?
Joy Boy's fruit gave him new life, and in a way new Haki?
I hope we eventually get somebody's commentary on the Drums of Liberation (whether it's Imu, Saturn this arc, Dragon, Shanks, anyone relevant)
It's just that the idea of fruits having their own haki you receive after awakening (like in Luffy's case, hypothetically) gives me Chakra Cloak vibes in a bad way. And I hope the story doesn't steer that way.
We already backtracked on the Gomu Gomu no Mi being a mediocre fruit. Let's at least keep people's haki their own.
I hope we eventually get somebody's commentary on the Drums of Liberation (whether it's Imu, Saturn this arc, Dragon, Shanks, anyone relevant)
It's just that the idea of fruits having their own haki you receive after awakening (like in Luffy's case, hypothetically) gives me Chakra Cloak vibes in a bad way. And I hope the story doesn't steer that way.
We already backtracked on the Gomu Gomu no Mi being a mediocre fruit. Let's at least keep people's haki their own.
It's just that the idea of fruits having their own haki you receive after awakening (like in Luffy's case, hypothetically) gives me Chakra Cloak vibes in a bad way. And I hope the story doesn't steer that way.
That's a tough one
Luffy beat Kaido but Kaido went through a mega gauntlet + carried an island with his powers. I still wouldn't put him as equal to fresh Kaido, but who knows what Oda will pull next
Zoro should be securely above Yonko Commanders. I don't wanna say he's Yonko level bc we have too much variety in power there - from Meme Mom on one end to Kaido on the other. Buggy not included ofc
That's a tough one
Luffy beat Kaido but Kaido went through a mega gauntlet + carried an island with his powers. I still wouldn't put him as equal to fresh Kaido, but who knows what Oda will pull next
Zoro should be securely above Yonko Commanders. I don't wanna say he's Yonko level bc we have too much variety in power there - from Meme Mom on one end to Kaido on the other. Buggy not included ofc
The Admirals, Shanks, Dragon, and Mihawk are too vague rn.
We know roughly how strong they should be from their titles and hype, but the end result could be too different from our expectations.
The thing I outright disagree with here is the Old Man Trio (Garp, Sengoku, and Ray, right?). I think anyone from your list beats them, but not easily. Their age would catch up to them in a real fight
The Admirals, Shanks, Dragon, and Mihawk are too vague rn.
We know roughly how strong they should be from their titles and hype, but the end result could be too different from our expectations.
The thing I outright disagree with here is the Old Man Trio (Garp, Sengoku, and Ray, right?). I think anyone from your list beats them, but not easily. Their age would catch up to them in a real fight
Nah Law and Kidd are still severely lacking in Haki and 1v1 experience to beat Haki legends like Garp and Sengoku. Beckman is a wildcard but at the end of the day he's got the hype but not like on that level.
Thats my view since pre-TS lol, i dont force people to agree to it either, unlike you who is the definition of "actively pushing people to agree to some powerscaling opinion". The ability to repel anything is strong enough for me to have that as my opinion even until now. Seeing Lucci needing hybrid and Luffy needing G4 to push S-Bear, while Zoro and Kaku not needing to transform, whatever was just a reassurance for me.
I didnt doubt whether Zoro have AdvCoC during KoH mode, either you lied about that or you forgot. I had doubt about Zoro's AdvCoC in the previous chapter when Zoro just awakened his CoC causing Beast Pirates to faint.
Thats my view since pre-TS lol, i dont force people to agree to it either. The ability to repel anything is strong enough for me to have that as my opinion even until now. Seeing Lucci needing hybrid and Luffy needing G4 to push S-Bear, while Zoro and Kaku not needing to transform, whatever was just a reassurance for me.
Nah, you can't convince me about Zoro > Luffy. You dont have argument regarding that other than pushing people to agree to your using emotional or reaching posts. Since Luffy > Zoro is just default, i'm just becoming more convinced about Kuma > Mihawk by the last chapter. You can release the echo-chamber essays tho, i will not try to convince you, you being a diehard fan of Zoro / Mihawk and all.
Nah, you can't convince me about Zoro > Luffy. You dont have argument regarding that other than pushing people to agree to your using emotional or reaching posts. Since Luffy > Zoro is just default, i'm just becoming more convinced about Kuma > Mihawk by the last chapter. You can release the echo-chamber essays tho, i will not try to convince you, you being a diehard fan of Zoro / Mihawk and all.
I mean you are being delusional tho that's a problem.
And your example is dumb as fuck.
Zoro without transformation did far more damage to Kaido than Luffy did with transformation and internal destruction
I guess difference between you and me is that I am open minded where as you have flat earth like, cult like religious belief system of Luffy > Zoro where as I look at the world from more realistic and scientific approach and accept Zoro > Luffy when author is making it clear for me.
I mean you are being delusional tho that's a problem.
And your example is dumb as fuck.
Zoro without transformation did far more damage to Kaido than Luffy did with transformation and internal destruction
I guess difference between you and me is that I am open minded where as you have flat earth like, cult like religious belief system of Luffy > Zoro where as I look at the world from more realistic and scientific approach and accept Zoro > Luffy when author is making it clear for me.
"Scientific approach" lol with that fanatic attitude you cant convince me you're somehow having scientific approach
You still talking about cutting scales? Zoro wanna, at least, make Hybrid Kaidou fall down by Asura and failed to make Kaidou impressed, while G2-G3 Luffy casually made Base Kaidou fall and compare his potential to Oden directly after. Luffy dont cut scales, yeah so its Zoro hype, but still not enough compared to Rooftop Luffy who got Kaidou's recognition in the first attack.
I can use Lucci's dismissive attitude about Zoro since only Luffy is on the top of Lucci's list to beat while after that all of Luffy's friends will die by Lucci's hands since Lucci's confident enough to say that even after seeing Zoro's attack to Kaku etc.
I also dont think Kuma negs Mihawk unlike you who will say stuff like that Mihawk is incomparably stronger than a million Kumas lol, why are you keep mentioning me like i commit some grave sin or whatever. It's just powerscaling. I dont like post-TS Luffy as much as pre-TS, i don't like him being a chosen one etc etc, but you just hate other people's powerscaling Man
"Scientific approach" lol with that fanatic attitude you cant convince me you're somehow having scientific approach
You still talking about cutting scales? Zoro wanna, at least, make Hybrid Kaidou fall down by Asura and failed to make Kaidou impressed, while G2-G3 Luffy casually made Base Kaidou fall and compare his potential to Oden directly after. Luffy dont cut scales, yeah so its Zoro hype, but still not enough compared to Rooftop Luffy who got Kaidou's recognition in the first attack.
I can use Lucci's dismissive attitude about Zoro since only Luffy is on the top of Lucci's list to beat while after that all of Luffy's friends will die by Lucci's hands since Lucci's confident enough to say that even after seeing Zoro's attack to Kaku etc.
I also dont think Kuma negs Mihawk unlike you who will say stuff like that Mihawk is incomparably stronger than a million Kumas lol, why are you keep mentioning me like i commit some grave sin or whatever. It's just powerscaling. I dont like post-TS Luffy as much as pre-TS, i don't like him being a chosen one etc etc, but you just hate other people's powerscaling Man
No. There's no such thing as JoyBoy's Haki. The fruit in no shape or form grants Luffy haki. He isn't using any Haki but his own. This is a strange take.
The only reason Kaido felt Oden's presence in the blade, was because the previous user was Oden. All of Haki stunts Zoro did with it, was his own haki. This take is as insane as Shishio claiming that "JoyBoy Haki" exists. There is no concept of borrowing Haki from others in One Piece. It's not that type of power.
>"Zoro without transformation did far more damage to Kaido than Luffy did with transformation and internal destruction"
Is a pretty disingenuous take. Kaido has been praising Luffy's strength and growth the minute he landed Red Roc. That punch had him comparing Luffy to Roger, Shanks, Oden, WB and Xebec. Luffy ignores Kaido's scales. Not metaphorically, or any other fancy bullshit. He ignores them straight up. He was dealing the most damage the entire time. Kaido dodged Red Hawk and even when his punches were still "too shallow" with just him flowing his CoA into Kaido. The one and only time Zoro did more damage than Luffy at that point in the story, was surpassed by Luffy literally moments after with his stronger CoC attacks. Everything points to the opposite of that claim.
>"I look at the world from more realistic and scientific approach and accept Zoro > Luffy when author is making it clear for me."
This is a fictional series. That isn't a flex. Why should anybody take your "realistic and scientific" approach seriously when the author follows real world physics to the bare minimum, like most shonen mangaka? The Author had none of the shit you're talking about in mind
And he hasn't portrayed Zoro>Luffy.
The direct opposite has been portrayed the entire time. Zoro and Luffy haven't been comparable since Pre Enies Lobby and even then that was arguable. Luffy punched through solid bedrock in Alabasta using Gum Gum Storm. A feat more impressive than anything did Zoro at that point in the story. A feat pre timeskip Zoro hadn't actually surpassed. Luffy only got stronger from there with his gears.
The Nika Fruit brought Luffy back with the Beat of Liberation on Luffy's heart. This was because Luffy awakened the Nika Fruit's powers as Luffy's mind and body caught up to the Devil Fruit per Kaido's words.
Luffy's Haki became stronger at that moment. Recall Rayleigh's words during the Luffy vs Katakuri fight.
So Luffy awakening the Nika Fruit was because Luffy's mind and body caught up to the Devil Fruit. Luffy's Haki stats becomes stronger during extremely difficult fights.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
