Controversial General Political Discussion

Bisoromi Bear

Bisoromi Bear

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#34,934
#34,934
Logiko

Logiko

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#34,938
#34,938
Herrera95 said:
Can't even tell what politcs One Piece is about.
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You can't ? There is so much to talk about..

We could start slow by explaining how One Piece is - for its time - a story that push the limits of what shonen are in term of treatment of women and diversities. Then we could we could switch to the first gear by showing how each arcs are based on the develpment of very strong values through a conflict of ideologies that is highly political. From that we can continue by explaining how politically dense the power structures of power are and the way characters interacts and are influence by said structures of power, Pirates, Marines, Celestial Dragons. We can also expand by explaining how those structure of power are always important to understand the stories of each arcs and the global storyline. We can't talked about the story without mentionning the important political ethic issues that One Piece brings to the table and the way they are systematically treated with actual purpose of looking at them through a critical lens and through their structures of dominations : Systemic racism, colonialism, human trafficking, ressources appropriations, slavery, genocide, ethnical cleansing, destruction of information and the annihilation of whistle blowers, reactance against system of oppression, Drog abuse, war crimes, kidnapping etc. After that we can of course talk about the way the characters are fighting through those deep issues through highly political action conflict: Civil rebellions, revolutions, act of civil defiance, mutineries and act of rebellion in the army, intense loyalty, power coup. Of course we must also talk about the anarchist way the strawhats are structured in term of hierarchy and the way their group represent a mini society with different vital role but we can also talk about the liberal myth and values that are structuring the actions of the main characters. And after all that, we can talk about more specific type of political message sprinkled all over the story the the storytelling, for example the fact that a lot of queers are represented emerging from an invisible prison out directly to freedom, how Bonclay chooses to stay behind to help people in there or how the Yonko saga is a representation of child abuse where the characters are choosing to stand against the authority of their parents...

There is a lot to say about the political vision and values of One Piece. Some shonens like Naruto, SNK or My hero might appear as very politically engaged because the characters are very vocal about their own values and vision, but in reality.. One Piece surpasses all of that. One Piece might appear as very simple, childlish and naive. But its political diversity and values are extremelly strong and dense. The reason why One Piece appear as a simple story is because character chooses to act instead of talking, which makes the story much more organic and natural and thus it helps the story to deliver much more powerful political message without even being obvious about it.

It keeps a base around the myths of the old liberal world (will, merit) but puts them in a context that favor those who are oppressed by society and structure of domination. One Piece is therefore created to be highly progressive with the bit of revolutionnary ideology and a very little touch of anarchism through the vertical structure of the strawhat crew. Its not perfect, but its politically very, VERY interesting.


Herrera95 said:
That just fits because you label them like that when they are not.
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No mate... I label people far right because they depict far right values and vision. Vision that are on the right of conservatism, FAR on the right of liberalism and VERY FAR on the right of leftism.

I don't call everyone here or around the world "far right". Just a few people and gov.

Herrera95 said:
Just like the ones I showed.
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No, just like january 6th.


Herrera95 said:
Both came from National Socialism parties.
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Which is a far right party. National socialism was literally created by ultra nationalist of the far right in order to reappropriate an ultra nationalistic vision of social values that they thought was missrepresented. But they didn't understand what socialism was about in the first place.

National socialism is not socialism, its nazism. Its fascism and a far right movement.

Herrera95 said:
They are up to consequences if they do.
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No necessaraly no. For example there is a lot of transphobic rethoric still remaining on this forum delivered by "liberatarians" and there are still no sanctions taken. Sometimes, the power is on the side of the oppression without even realizing it.


Herrera95 said:
Talking to yourself now?
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No, to you.. sadly.


Herrera95 said:
No you don't.
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Believe in your dreams mate...


Herrera95 said:
Yet you defended lockdowns and censorship
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Lockdown yes. Censorship, nop.

But you defended - or more exactly denied - genocide and a crypto fascist gov:
Herrera95 said:
There is no genocide.
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:kayneshrug:
Natalija said:
What the hell is exactly going on in France? :milaugh:

https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/03/11/france-president-emmanual-macron-slams-rumour-brigitte-trans/

@RayanOO
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A good example that transphobia and sexism are still rampant in society, especially in the far right and complotists that defends those rumors.

There is absolutely nothing funny about this.
 
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Herrera95

#34,940
#34,940
Logiko said:
You can't ? There is so much to talk about..

We could start slow by explaining how One Piece is - for its time - a story that push the limits of what shonen are in term of treatment of women and diversities.
Click to expand...
I said you can't. And thus first sentences already proved. You are forcing things into it when they are not. One piece pushing the limits of treatment of women and diversity what that even mean? You said a lot of words but no purpose with them all together.

Logiko said:
Then we could we could switch to the first gear by showing how each arcs are based on the develpment of very strong values through a conflict of ideologies that is highly political
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I beg to differ since Luffy is trying to be Shanks without even understanding why Shanks did the things he did. This is pretty obvious when he meets Usopp. And then why is that political? This is human interaction there is nothing political about it. Do you even understand what politics means?

Logiko said:
From that we can continue by explaining how politically dense the power structures of power are and the way characters interacts and are influence by said structures of power, Pirates, Marines, Celestial Dragons.
Click to expand...
Ok. Here we have politic to explain how the world is structured.

Logiko said:
We can also expand by explaining how those structure of power are always important to understand the stories of each arcs and the global storyline. We can't talked about the story without mentionning the important political ethic issues that One Piece brings to the table and the way they are systematically treated with actual purpose of looking at them through a critical lens and through their structures of dominations : Systemic racism, colonialism, human trafficking, ressources appropriations, slavery, genocide, ethnical cleansing, destruction of information and the annihilation of whistle blowers, reactance against system of oppression, Drog abuse, war crimes, kidnapping etc.
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Here is the issue. One Piece is all about strongest vs weakest. There is no political to pretend WG is good. The whole world knows what happens if you oppose to them or if you are not included into WG. This is simple Evil vs Good. No political.

Logiko said:
After that we can of course talk about the way the characters are fighting through those deep issues through highly political action conflict: Civil rebellions, revolutions, act of civil defiance, mutineries and act of rebellion in the army, intense loyalty, power coup. Of course we must also talk about the anarchist way the strawhats are structured in term of hierarchy and the way their group represent a mini society with different vital role but we can also talk about the liberal myth and values that are structuring the actions of the main characters.
Click to expand...
Again this is just the Good vs Bad not political. And even a car drive with friends is a small society if you want to put that way.

Logiko said:
And after all that, we can talk about more specific type of political message sprinkled all over the story the the storytelling, for example the fact that a lot of queers are represented emerging from an invisible prison out directly to freedom
Click to expand...
If anything this is much more about how men are turned into women inside prisons. No political as you want to force. And they were kind of free in their said invisible prison.

Logiko said:
The reason why One Piece appear as a simple story is because character chooses to act instead of talking, which makes the story much more organic and natural and thus it helps the story to deliver much more powerful political message without even being obvious about it.
Click to expand...
No. One Piece is a simple story. People force deep shit into it because they have agenda or are content creator. Yamato being the latest example of this. A character with great potential that got pushed by political agenda of readers yet accomplished nothing because One Piece is not that deep.

Logiko said:
It keeps a base around the myths of the old liberal world (will, merit) but puts them in a context that favor those who are oppressed by society and structure of domination. One Piece is therefore created to be highly progressive with the bit of revolutionnary ideology and a very little touch of anarchism through the vertical structure of the strawhat crew. Its not perfect, but its politically very, VERY interesting.
Click to expand...
This paragraph is essentially what you think that I'm going against it. Your agenda to push One Piece as a progressive story when in reality it is a libertarian story. There is no social class clash if not the one in power against the ones UNDER that power. Progressive is essentially against the rich. One Piece is nothing about that. Look at Kaya that lives in a mansion on a poor village of Syrup yet no one complains about it and actually likes her. One Piece is a punch at stomach of progressives because it has everything to be a political and progressive story but it is not.

And by your definitions, you just said that Naruto and SNK are less political than One Piece to go against me because your definition of politics I challenge you to find any piece of work that has no political evolved.

Logiko said:
Which is a far right party. National socialism was literally created by ultra nationalist of the far right in order to reappropriate an ultra nationalistic vision of social values that they thought was missrepresented. But they didn't understand what socialism was about in the first place.

National socialism is not socialism, its nazism. Its fascism and a far right movement.
Click to expand...
Socialism is socialism. And it comes from the left.

Logiko said:
No necessaraly no. For example there is a lot of transphobic rethoric still remaining on this forum delivered by "liberatarians" and there are still no sanctions taken. Sometimes, the power is on the side of the oppression without even realizing it.
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Not everything has to have a consequence as punishment as you want. But there are consequences. If they arr being transphobic they won't get much respect by the people who are not fot example.
Logiko said:
Lockdown yes. Censorship, nop.

But you defended - or more exactly denied - genocide and a crypto fascist gov:
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You defended censorship. I remember you talking about a while ago about reporting every comment here in this topic that went against your ideas. And what the hell is crypto government? By the way International Court by your definitions is denying genocide too.
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Logiko said:
A good example that transphobia and sexism are still rampant in society, especially in the far right and complotists that defends those rumors.

There is absolutely nothing funny about this.
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Nope. As you could understand. This is just dirty politics to attack your opponents in the dirtiest ways possible.

Just like the left calling Bolsonaro sons faggot and making up stories about their gay relationships.
 
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