Controversial General Political Discussion

[Bisoromi Bear]

So you do get my point...

Uhm yeah I kinda do but you're mixing up two different things.

To expand on my example, many indigenous people who live in the Amazon, even those who don't have permanent contact to outsiders, wanted to get the vaccine in any case because they had terrible experiences with other contagious diseases decimating them.

 

[Ultra]

Step by step.


1>lockdown in order to diminish the circulation of the virus.
2> vaccination campaign while people are isolated in order to build their immune systems.
3> with a significant portion of the population already vaccinated, you could remove the lockdown restrictions and get back to a regular day to day activity. The virus might still spread, but since people were isolated, it's too contained and shouldn't cause much harm unless we get unlucky and it mutates to something resistant to the vaccines we have presently.



What ACTUALLY happened:
1> No lockdown. Only a few "case by case" restrictions AFTER a surge of contamination and hospitalizations.
2> Major antivax campaigns preventing people from both getting the vaccines (some countries delayed the purchase or couldn't get it sooner due to the high demand in the entire fucking world), or following the isolation protocols to prevent the circulation while people were being vaccinated.
3> An accelerated surge of different variants in different countries. Guess what? We were unlucky and some of these variants were even more contagious and/or lethal, and/or some of the vaccines that were being produced weren't effective against, almost bringing us back to square one.
4> A "running against the tide" action trying to "fix" the shit show already installed, with people, to this very day, STILL promoting antivax campaigns and making everything way harder that it should've been.

Burning question I always have for people who think strict enough measures weren't taken during the pandemic. Is it worth it?

COVID is endemic, it's here forever, so keep in mind this isn't just a question of hindsight. It's "do you think we should do this every season where COVID cases are rising due to a new variant"?

My sober prediction is that even the people who had the strongest opinion on COVID during the pandemic will in 90% of the time in just within the next couple of years get lax and forget to take their COVID Vaxx, even if nothing has really inherently changed. And this is because ultimately COVID was a nothingburger. Potentially deadly for the elderly and with several conditions, who should quarantine, but for everyone else not really. I think the average persona's risk tolerance was fairly reflective of the actual danger of the virus. People wouldn't be so lax of it was AIDS or the plague. I think it was reasonable to take a cautionary approach for the first 6 months, but it should have been pretty obvious past that point there's diminishing returns to trying to restrict *everyone*, and thinking about the period still brings me feelings of anger. I never took a vaccination out of principle even when my own prospects were at risk, because I felt deeply that it's wrong to sacrifice the wellbeing of young and healthy people via lockdowns and fast-paced vaccinations when we could very well go about business as usual and keep older people protected and insulated for a while.

Instead I think the whole saga actually is a pretty strong case against the effectiveness of a totalitarian organized approach against a respiratory virus like covid. This was always the best we could do any any higher expectation is not very realistic. Again, what did we actually manage to accomplish when the virus is here *forever*. This isn't a then/now problem, once COVID was properly characterized and understood we should have immediately switched to treating it as a long term problem (since that's exactly what it is) instead of listening to fear mongering bureaucrats.

Largely nothing has changed except our perception of the situation, and the natural result is that COVID is now relegated to something that will be talked about seasonally on the news like the flu, or something you or a friend catches every once in a while, as it should be.

 

[Zolo]

Burning question I always have for people who think strict enough measures weren't taken during the pandemic. Is it worth it?

COVID is endemic, it's here forever, so keep in mind this isn't just a question of hindsight. It's "do you think we should do this every season where COVID cases are rising due to a new variant"?

My sober prediction is that even the people who had the strongest opinion on COVID during the pandemic will in 90% of the time in just within the next couple of years get lax and forget to take their COVID Vaxx, even if nothing has really inherently changed. And this is because ultimately COVID was a nothingburger. Potentially deadly for the elderly and with several conditions, who should quarantine, but for everyone else not really. I think the average persona's risk tolerance was fairly reflective of the actual danger of the virus. People wouldn't be so lax of it was AIDS or the plague. I think it was reasonable to take a cautionary approach for the first 6 months, but it should have been pretty obvious past that point there's diminishing returns to trying to restrict *everyone*, and thinking about the period still brings me feelings of anger. I never took a vaccination out of principle even when my own prospects were at risk, because I felt deeply that it's wrong to sacrifice the wellbeing of young and healthy people via lockdowns and fast-paced vaccinations when we could very well go about business as usual and keep older people protected and insulated for a while.

Instead I think the whole saga actually is a pretty strong case against the effectiveness of a totalitarian organized approach against a respiratory virus like covid. This was always the best we could do any any higher expectation is not very realistic. Again, what did we actually manage to accomplish when the virus is here *forever*. This isn't a then/now problem, once COVID was properly characterized and understood we should have immediately switched to treating it as a long term problem (since that's exactly what it is) instead of listening to fear mongering bureaucrats.

Largely nothing has changed except our perception of the situation, and the natural result is that COVID is now relegated to something that will be talked about seasonally on the news like the flu, or something you or a friend catches every once in a while, as it should be.

Now imagine Bill gates and hes friends decides upon results of this pandemic to release the virus that takes 4/1 lives ?.... they all have it in they labs and now they just by accident release it... but again its some bird or pig, like it waa the bat the last time,,,, ,, doesnt matter.... what then>

 

[Ultra]

I think even a remote risk of side effect of myocarditis or other side effects from a vaccine, even on a scale of 1/10,000 vs the actual risk from COVID is hard to morally justify for me, particularly in young people. Herd immunity has always been a meme, the risk calculus simply doesn't make sense if you're under a certain age. I don't mean to be flagrant about protecting old people but if a young person experiences a side effect I consider that way worse.

 

[Zolo]

I think even a remote risk of side effect of myocarditis or other side effects from a vaccine, even on a scale of 1/10,000 vs the actual risk from COVID is hard to morally justify for me, particularly in young people. Herd immunity has always been a meme, the risk calculus simply doesn't make sense if you're under a certain age. I don't mean to be flagrant about protecting old people but if a young person experiences a side effect I consider that way worse.

there is a fact that you may never get covid and never have to worry,.... but than you get a vaxx and than you have to

 

[Joygirl1]

The question most of you surely asked yourself is: How long is this supposed to go on? In the beginning they were speaking about 1-2 vaccinations but the reality was that you have to get it almost every few months, should this be going on forever? I know lots of people who got vaxxed 2 or 3 times but which are refusing their 4th one now. After a certain amount of time you will count as unvaccinated again.

 

[ShadyOjiro]

I think even a remote risk of side effect of myocarditis or other side effects from a vaccine, even on a scale of 1/10,000 vs the actual risk from COVID is hard to morally justify for me, particularly in young people. Herd immunity has always been a meme, the risk calculus simply doesn't make sense if you're under a certain age. I don't mean to be flagrant about protecting old people but if a young person experiences a side effect I consider that way worse.

A lot don't get that herd immunity only make some sense if all the countries had the proper amount of doctors and hospitals which we all know it isn't the case.
We had vaccines and isolation rules and the hospitals were overflowing already.

Imagine all trying to go for herd immunity route , the medical system in all systems would have been crushed.

 

[Photon]

You may have seen this on Twitter (if you are on Twitter).
Dont watch this cancer if you dont want to (trans people dancing in front of infants) >

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1631313549204094982

[/ISPOILER]

So fcn disgusting

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

still here mate
keep crying tho

 

[Ultra]

A lot don't get that herd immunity only make some sense if all the countries had the proper amount of doctors and hospitals which we all know it isn't the case.
We had vaccines and isolation rules and the hospitals were overflowing already.

Imagine all trying to go for herd immunity route , the medical system in all systems would have been crushed.

By "Herd Immunity" I was actually referring to any sort of achieving most of the population being COVID immune, via either the virus or vaccination - being an unrealistic expectation. If it does happen it's always a temporary state until the next variant of COVID wraps back around next season.

The philosophy of the WHO is that we needed to successfully vaccinate the vast majority of the population before opening things back up. Many people were vaccinated but I think the bulk of immunity still came from the virus itself, and later data showed that the effectiveness of the vaccines were fairly overstated and mostly they softened the severity of infection instead of stopping the spread. So in hindsight we could have targeted the at-risk population for vaccinations while slowly opening things up a bit faster for the less vulnerable and still not have suffered for it. Instead we largely just prolonged the inevitable.

Don't think it was justifiable for the lockdowns and restrictions to last as long as they did in many parts of the west. And I think my position will be vindicated simply by how we treat COVID in the future - that we will never shut down for it again, that you'll still see slot of cases and even deaths seasonally but for most people it'll be a blurb in the news or maybe they'll wear masks come fall.

The same people who argue lockdowns were justified or we should have been even stricter should by logical principal argue we keep the same level of vigilance going forward forever. But 99% won't, because it's obviously excessive.

Post automatically merged: Mar 2, 2023

still here mate

Are you though?

 

[York]

Hmm, let me puzzle this out. Its obviously not three, unless you're only counting the happiness of the .01% who survived

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Hmm, let me puzzle this out. Its obviously not three, unless you're only counting the happiness of the .01% who survived

Lmao

 

[Toby D. Dog]

I always felt like I was a little bit weird growing up compared to my friends, but some of you in here put me to shame bro, I’ve never felt like more of a normie than I do now.

 

[Infitima]

The answer is 2. Because if Madagascar locks down it's game over every time. Fucking Madagascar.

/Pandemic 2 references.

 

[ShiShiShi]

there is a fact that you may never get covid and never have to worry,.... but than you get a vaxx and than you have to

What did I just read

You don’t have to worry about anything. Quit fearmongering.

”Once you get the vaccine, 10 years of bad luck will rain down upon you. It will come after you, your family, friends and your pet guinea pig. 😱”

 

[Mathias]

You may have seen this on Twitter (if you are on Twitter).
Dont watch this cancer if you dont want to (trans people dancing in front of infants) >

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1631313549204094982

[/ISPOILER]

Nothing disgusting. Even though I wonder what's going on there.

 

[Krusher1357]

You may have seen this on Twitter (if you are on Twitter).
Dont watch this cancer if you dont want to (trans people dancing in front of infants) >

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1631313549204094982

[/ISPOILER]

Why are we at the stage that prostitutes can perform at kindergartens but you can't smoke a spliff while walking down main #wokeproblems

 

[NAMELESS]

You may have seen this on Twitter (if you are on Twitter).
Dont watch this cancer if you dont want to (trans people dancing in front of infants) >

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1631313549204094982

[/ISPOILER]

I have seen some lgbtq people having sex in a gay parade while there were kids around watching.These people are deranged.I wonder why no one called the police.

 

[NAMELESS]

Third country doesn't sound bad.

 

[Krusher1357]

I have seen some lgbtq people having sex in a gay parade while there were kids around watching.These people are deranged.I wonder why no one called the police.

That's inclusivity tho right? We can do it but you can't.

Idk how we have gone so far as to let this shit happen. Straight white male went from oppressor to oppressed and the minority community can't see why that's wrong?


It's only wrong when you aren't getting better than everyone else, haha fuk me aye