Controversial General Political Discussion
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Again not what I said. I said not all the people who voted for him were not doing it out of racism or sexism. That's ridiculous and a pretty insulting accusation. You're literally calling @Zemmi and @Ravagerblade self hating racists.
If this was that simple...
You are doing that yourself.
That's because you do not understand the far right vote. In France, we do. Because we fought it and we beat it... kinda
People who vote for far rightists are voting FACTUALLY against their interests there is NOT ONE argument in favor of Trump, Lepen, Meloni or Milei based on Economy that holds up against the fact and the studied reality of politics.
The vote for those people is based on IDENTITARY values. Nothing else.
You are doing that yourself.
That's because you do not understand the far right vote. In France, we do. Because we fought it and we beat it... kinda
People who vote for far rightists are voting FACTUALLY against their interests there is NOT ONE argument in favor of Trump, Lepen, Meloni or Milei based on Economy that holds up against the fact and the studied reality of politics.
The vote for those people is based on IDENTITARY values. Nothing else.
@Toby D. Dog they're out here trying to gaslight your boy 
This is true. He’s the king of branding, he was able to sell these things to his supporters and even made gains with Hispanics and other minorities.
So yeah, not everybody supporting him is racist or sexist, nor do I think that’s the reason Kamala lost. This is just the inevitable result after the Democratic Party has failed to materially deliver for the people.
That being said, It is still mind boggling to see how people still believe Trump cares about them and is willing to fight the good fight for your average Joe. After all the money he took from foreign governments, got rid of important provisions for Obamacare, and has served the interests of corporations, it really makes me feel that we’re willing to ignore his corruption since for some reason, he’s not held at the same standard as democrats.
I’m already defending you.
So yeah, not everybody supporting him is racist or sexist, nor do I think that’s the reason Kamala lost. This is just the inevitable result after the Democratic Party has failed to materially deliver for the people.
That being said, It is still mind boggling to see how people still believe Trump cares about them and is willing to fight the good fight for your average Joe. After all the money he took from foreign governments, got rid of important provisions for Obamacare, and has served the interests of corporations, it really makes me feel that we’re willing to ignore his corruption since for some reason, he’s not held at the same standard as democrats.
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@Toby D. Dog they're out here trying to gaslight your boy
Just so you guys understand, labeling all these guys racist and sexist will alienate them from voting for the other side next time around.
Do I think a big chunk of them are racists and fascists? For sure. But when you see a bunch of swing voters go for Obama, then for Trump, then for Biden, and now back to Trump, you have to recognize a lot of them are voting for what they think will be better for their own wallet.
They’re wrong of course, and they’ve failed to recognize we’re rolling the dice here. But that’s their reasoning which I can understand at the very least.
Do I think a big chunk of them are racists and fascists? For sure. But when you see a bunch of swing voters go for Obama, then for Trump, then for Biden, and now back to Trump, you have to recognize a lot of them are voting for what they think will be better for their own wallet.
They’re wrong of course, and they’ve failed to recognize we’re rolling the dice here. But that’s their reasoning which I can understand at the very least.
Yes they can, yes they did.
Someone who wants great scale deportation of "illegals because they eat dogs" and wants to control pussies is a racist and a sexist.
As for those who vote for him. As a whole, they are at different levels of racism.
In order to be intolerant you just have to be indifferent.
Indifference is hugely common in mankind.
I know Turkish people who consider themselves "only citizen in France" and who endorse LePen because they want to be in line with the far-right that they endorse in Türkiye. They hate Syrians in Turkiye and in Europe. These Turks are racists but are too fucking dense to understand that LePen would treat them worse too.
I know Israeli people who are French too that endorse LePen whose party was created by a neo-nazi. Is it really out of touch to say that these Israelis' hate is so big that they'd rather ally with the historical enemy to attack "a common foe" ?
The enemies of their enemies is their friend. The French-Nazis who hate all Arabs (roughly neighbors of Israel) are Israel's friends.
Sometimes it can be self-hating yeah. I know black people who tell me about their grand-parents who hate black people (/racism). They tell their grand-children who are lawyers that their "niggers hair could be used to clean up the floor or the shit in the toilet" or "a **** can't be a lawyer like the good white men".
Racist people can vote Obama and "have black friends" too.
Someone who wants great scale deportation of "illegals because they eat dogs" and wants to control pussies is a racist and a sexist.
As for those who vote for him. As a whole, they are at different levels of racism.
In order to be intolerant you just have to be indifferent.
Indifference is hugely common in mankind.
I know Turkish people who consider themselves "only citizen in France" and who endorse LePen because they want to be in line with the far-right that they endorse in Türkiye. They hate Syrians in Turkiye and in Europe. These Turks are racists but are too fucking dense to understand that LePen would treat them worse too.
I know Israeli people who are French too that endorse LePen whose party was created by a neo-nazi. Is it really out of touch to say that these Israelis' hate is so big that they'd rather ally with the historical enemy to attack "a common foe" ?
The enemies of their enemies is their friend. The French-Nazis who hate all Arabs (roughly neighbors of Israel) are Israel's friends.
Sometimes it can be self-hating yeah. I know black people who tell me about their grand-parents who hate black people (/racism). They tell their grand-children who are lawyers that their "niggers hair could be used to clean up the floor or the shit in the toilet" or "a **** can't be a lawyer like the good white men".
Racist people can vote Obama and "have black friends" too.
Indeed.
Those two things are not exclusive.
They are ALREADY alienated. The reactance theory is fallacious.
If there is one thing french politics can give you as an example is that trying to think that people who vote for far rightist do not have an identitary agenda is delusionnal.
In France we had a sayin in the early 2000' "faché pas facho" which translate as "angry not fascist". It was a leftist slogan meant to make people think that those who were voting for conservatives and far right people were not really racist or fascist but simply very angry at the economical situation.
It worked a few year until this july election, where the left started to witness the fact that NO MATTER how much we showed to people that the far right was completely BShiting factually and that we would raise the wages, lower the retirement agen give less to big business, tax the big corporations and the 1%.. AT NO POINT when presented measure that they DO agree with (because the polls are clear, they do agree with pretty much all the social and economical measure of the left) they were willing to change their vote.
The vote for the far right is DEEPLY identitary. And that's by understanding that the left in France managed to strike back against the far right during these July elections while fighting for Palestine, migrants, minorities etc.
There are two things:
- Democrates failed the working class
- The far right rallied all people with an identitary agenda.
It was destined to be a loss. And unless people in the united states start to understand that you WON'T be able to get the votes of those people back, you will face a very dark age of conservatism and reactionnary politics.
Those two things are not exclusive.
They are ALREADY alienated. The reactance theory is fallacious.
If there is one thing french politics can give you as an example is that trying to think that people who vote for far rightist do not have an identitary agenda is delusionnal.
In France we had a sayin in the early 2000' "faché pas facho" which translate as "angry not fascist". It was a leftist slogan meant to make people think that those who were voting for conservatives and far right people were not really racist or fascist but simply very angry at the economical situation.
It worked a few year until this july election, where the left started to witness the fact that NO MATTER how much we showed to people that the far right was completely BShiting factually and that we would raise the wages, lower the retirement agen give less to big business, tax the big corporations and the 1%.. AT NO POINT when presented measure that they DO agree with (because the polls are clear, they do agree with pretty much all the social and economical measure of the left) they were willing to change their vote.
The vote for the far right is DEEPLY identitary. And that's by understanding that the left in France managed to strike back against the far right during these July elections while fighting for Palestine, migrants, minorities etc.
There are two things:
- Democrates failed the working class
- The far right rallied all people with an identitary agenda.
It was destined to be a loss. And unless people in the united states start to understand that you WON'T be able to get the votes of those people back, you will face a very dark age of conservatism and reactionnary politics.