Controversial General Political Discussion

[NAMELESS]

My name doesnt belong here, i dont buy that kinda bs

[automerge]1757288215[/automerge]

That's not what marxisme explains mate. Economy is not a 0-sum game. You didn't understand that Surplue values is something that is accaparated by the exploiters ON TOP OF what workers are already paid to produce!! There is no such thing as exploiter giving 1 to receive 1.

Under capitalism, the exploiter gives 1 so the worker creates 2 and the system captures the rest through exploitation !

This is how rich people get richer and poor people get poorer. This is simple sociologic, economic and well.. mathematic logic. This is not hard to understand and I KNOW FOR A FACT that everyone here already experienced this before, you included.

- When your boss asked you to stay for the compagny late after work to get a "BoNuS"
- When the condition of work were not related to pure salary commodities but a race toward productivity.

I worked in fast food restauration. I know for a FACT that I wasn't paid for the amount of work I produced when I was so hypnotised by the idea of pleasing my manager and doing more to be considered more, when what I did NEVER improved my material condition of existences.

It took just a few month for me to get burned out because no one told me that overdoing that during studies was risky for the health.


How can you justify a system like this and say, yeah.. "not all billionnaires" ?


When you are stuck in a belief you do not want to question, that's what a personnal truth is mate.

Unless you are a highly skilled laborer that took years to master something that very few people in the world can do, you provide 0 extra value. Anyone can clean dishes, push buttons, and say "Hello!" Do you want fries with your burger?" Blue-collar people get little money because there are a ton of people that can do the exact same thing they can do. This is scarcity at work.
[automerge]1757288344[/automerge]

That's not what marxisme explains mate. Economy is not a 0-sum game. You didn't understand that Surplue values is something that is accaparated by the exploiters ON TOP OF what workers are already paid to produce!! There is no such thing as exploiter giving 1 to receive 1.

Under capitalism, the exploiter gives 1 so the worker creates 2 and the system captures the rest through exploitation !

This is how rich people get richer and poor people get poorer. This is simple sociologic, economic and well.. mathematic logic. This is not hard to understand and I KNOW FOR A FACT that everyone here already experienced this before, you included.

- When your boss asked you to stay for the compagny late after work to get a "BoNuS"
- When the condition of work were not related to pure salary commodities but a race toward productivity.

I worked in fast food restauration. I know for a FACT that I wasn't paid for the amount of work I produced when I was so hypnotised by the idea of pleasing my manager and doing more to be considered more, when what I did NEVER improved my material condition of existences.

It took just a few month for me to get burned out because no one told me that overdoing that during studies was risky for the health.


How can you justify a system like this and say, yeah.. "not all billionnaires" ?


When you are stuck in a belief you do not want to question, that's what a personnal truth is mate.

Btw, there is truth and there is bullshit. You can deny gravity all you want, but if you jump from a plane without a parachute, you will get hurt. Relativism is dumb. There is no modern philosophy, only demagogy and bullshit.

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

I said this before, and I will say it again: You guys have a hateful bias against billionaires. An easy way to become a billionaire is to invent some groundbreaking shit and profit from royalties. Henry Ford is a good example of this. But nah, you will say he stole the surplus money from the work of his employees, who didn't invent any cars and didn't revolutionize the industrial process.

Ford wanted to give the surplus to his employees indeed. He was sued by his shareholders and created a precendeny that the only purpose of a company is to increase the value of the shares, not to give more to employees.
You should understand the examples you write before you post them, do you even know how to read?
You literally posted as an example a WRONG EXAMPLE.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co.

 

[NAMELESS]

Ford wanted to give the surplus to his employees indeed. He was sued by his shareholders and created a precendeny that the only purpose of a company is to increase the value of the shares, not to give more to employees.
You should understand the examples you write before you post them, do you even know how to read?
You literally posted as an example a WRONG EXAMPLE.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co.

You didn't understand my sarcasm. What part of "factory workers are brainless idiots that only push buttons, therefore don't deserve to get paid any more than their time is worth" don't you understand? Ford was a genius. He became rich by changing the fucking game. If advanced robots were a thing, most factory workers could be substituted by them. You guys overestimate the value of doing menial jobs.

 

[Logiko]

Unless you are a highly skilled laborer that took years to master something that very few people in the world can do, you provide 0 extra value. Anyone can clean dishes, push buttons, and say "Hello!" Do you want fries with your burger?" Blue-collar people get little money because there are a ton of people that can do the exact same thing they can do. This is scarcity at work.

Mate, I just explained to you a burn out from a fast food compagny. How do you think it happen ? By just WORKING?

Being at those compagny LITERALLY means being asked to be a multitask "employee". This means being payed only for one task when I gave a production of MULTIPLE.

When you are being asked to stay after hour "for the compagny" > You give more
Shortenned break > You give more
Teaching a collegue when it's not in your salary > You give more
Working faster ? > YOU GIVE MORE
Working with a smile ? > YOU FUCKING GIVE MORE

What are you not understanding in the words "being socially pushed to GIVE MORE ?" What I described is not just some random CEO work, it's what I experienced in a fast food compagny when I was paid peanuts.

This is Capitalism!

It accapparates the surplue value of the worker. This means sweat, emotions, skill, money, time, strenght, vital forces. And ALL OF THAT ends up in the end of the exploiting system with the idea that "productivity" is the future.

IT'S A FUCKING SCAM

 

[NAMELESS]

I said this before, and I will say it again: You guys have a hateful bias against billionaires. An easy way to become a billionaire is to invent some groundbreaking shit and profit from royalties. Henry Ford is a good example of this. But nah, you will say he stole the surplus money from the work of his employees, who didn't invent any cars and didn't revolutionize the industrial process.

Mate, I just explained to you a burn out from a fast food compagny. How do you think it happen ? By just WORKING?

Being at those compagny LITERALLY means being asked to be a multitask "employee". This means being payed only for one task when I gave a production of MULTIPLE.

When you are being asked to stay after hour "for the compagny" > You give more
Shortenned break > You give more
Teaching a collegue when it's not in your salary > You give more
Working faster ? > YOU GIVE MORE
Working with a smile ? > YOU FUCKING GIVE MORE

What are you not understanding in the words "being socially pushed to GIVE MORE ?"

What I described is not just some random CEO work, it's what I experienced in a fast food compagny when I was paid PEANUTS.

This is Capitalism

It accapparates the surplue value of the worker. This means sweat, emotions, skill, money, time, strenght, vital forces. And ALL OF THAT ends up in the end of the exploiting system with the idea that "productivity" is the future.

It's a FUCKING SCAM

If you are doing stuff without getting paid, you are being sucker. Never be a sucker. Only do work that you are paid to. Yes, i know that lots of assholes that fire employees that don't slave away. The law exists for this.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

any kind of hierarchies and reign of one over another

Existed LONG before Marx was even born.

It's all the Romans' fault. Their genocidal asses are responsible for France.

People complaining about Billionaires yet still buy from them.
Make it make sense.

You are so dumb

 

[Logiko]

If you are doing stuff without getting paid, you are being sucker. Never be a sucker. Only do work that you are paid to. Yes, i know that lots of assholes that fire employees that don't slave away. The law exists for this.

So you agrees that working without getting proper pay is a MAJOR problem?

 

[HerreraIsBack]

+3 Millions, mainly to to the consequences of the introduction of big economical measures
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0140673609600052

This article explains why the correlation is wrong

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1057/ces.2011.8?utm_source=chatgpt.com

And this other article supports that

https://ideas.repec.org/p/see/wpaper/103.html?utm_source=chatgpt.com

But don't you worry. Your article came out at The Lancet journal that also release this other one who explain much better how alcohol was the main source of those deaths during the 90s instead of economical measures

https://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(18)31310-2/fulltext?utm_source=chatgpt.com

 

[NAMELESS]

So you agrees that working without getting proper pay is a MAJOR problem?

But, of course, it is. I never denied that. Do you agree that there needs to be balance in work relations so that neither workers are exploited nor employees are held hostage by the tribunals?

 

[HerreraIsBack]

If you are doing stuff without getting paid, you are being sucker. Never be a sucker. Only do work that you are paid to. Yes, i know that lots of assholes that fire employees that don't slave away. The law exists for this.

Nothing is so simple as that. Depends on situation. Workers usually does stuff that they weren't hired for in order to be promoted. That worked out very well for me when I first started. Coming from a trainee to quickly get a some promotions that increased a lot my earnings.

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

You didn't understand my sarcasm. What part of "factory workers are brainless idiots that only push buttons, therefore don't deserve to get paid any more than their time is worth" don't you understand? Ford was a genius. He became rich by changing the fucking game. If advanced robots were a thing, most factory workers could be substituted by them. You guys overestimate the value of doing menial jobs.

If you are doing stuff without getting paid, you are being sucker. Never be a sucker. Only do work that you are paid to. Yes, i know that lots of assholes that fire employees that don't slave away. The law exists for this.

You seem to miss that we live at a time that for some people it's it's either be a sucker or starve or be a criminal.
You said you are from Brazil, you should understand this.

 

[NAMELESS]

Nothing is so simple as that. Depends on situation. Workers usually does stuff that they weren't hired for in order to be promoted. That worked out very well for me when I first started. Coming from a trainee to quickly get a some promotions that increased a lot my earnings.

You need to be tatical about this, if you think you can get benefits by doing extra work, go for it. If you don't, don't waste your energy.

 

[Gaimon The Pirate]

You need to be tatical about this, if you think you can get benefits by doing extra work, go for it. If you don't, don't waste your energy.

Some times you do not have a choice. Do extra work or get fired and your children do not eat is the only options.

 

[HerreraIsBack]

People complaining about Billionaires yet still buy from them.
Make it make sense.

Here in Brazil we call them "Socialists with iPhones"

I do agree they have gotten to big and imo close to qualifying for Monopoly.
Capitalism as I know it, the free Market, ( rather a small part of the whole) which has stopped actually being as such for a long while now.
Corruption has spread within allowing it to not work as intended.

Monopoly is not necessarily bad as long it is natural and not governament made.

The basic understanding of capitalism, free market, is that there will be competition about getting prices as lower as possible that helps consumers, and paying workers as much as possible, that helps... workers... And of course if you have a monopoly you don't need to worry about that because... People will have to buy from you anyway and work for you anyway... Although is not that simple too.

First of all... Why is not that simple about monopolies? Let's suppose that we have a oil company that is the only provider. It can pay workers as low as they want and charge costumers as much as they want. First of all if the oil area is paying too low workers may consider other areas to work and then they wouldn't be able to produce their oil to sell in first place. Second, if oil is too expensive to buy people may consider using other ways of transport, nowadays we have electric cars but we also have bikes, horses, trains and ships runned by coals if I'm not mistake, and then not much people would be buying from this oil company that monopolized the market. So one way or another the free market would still force this oil company that is the only in the world to pay enough their workers and charge fair their costumers.

And going back to monopolies not build by state, like governament helping Heinz ketchup, but being naturally build like Google that recently had to sell their browser or something like that which is absurd, and same thing happened with oil companies as well. Google search becoming a monopoly is just because their product is so good people rather use it than anything else, now we have ChatGPT that is 100x better though. So the same principle is being applied. Better product, better price, good workers being paid.

 

[NAMELESS]

You seem to miss that we live at a time that for some people it's it's either be a sucker or starve or be a criminal.
You said you are from Brazil, you should understand this.

No idea how things are in Europe, but some people here get a job, leave for bullshit reasons in the first month, get all the money from their benefits, and then sue and win for an extra profit. The result? Nobody wants to own a business hire other people

 

[HerreraIsBack]

You need to be tatical about this, if you think you can get benefits by doing extra work, go for it. If you don't, don't waste your energy.

Either way experience counts in my opinion. You can still put in your LinkedIn the things you did that were beyond your position
[automerge]1757290870[/automerge]

You seem to miss that we live at a time that for some people it's it's either be a sucker or starve or be a criminal.
You said you are from Brazil, you should understand this.

Brazil is like that because it has a ridiculous amount of injustice towards works police that says workers are always right no matter what and bosses are always wrong so they get punished regardless they are following the law or not.

And because of the huge amount of work law that people don't want to create business here. Is not worth it.

That's why we have a huge number of informal workers and one person companies to avoid all that crap.

 

[NAMELESS]

number of informal workers and one person companies to avoid all that crap.

Literally me.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

That's why we have a huge number of informal workers

You mean illegals

 

[NAMELESS]

Some times you do not have a choice. Do extra work or get fired and your children do not eat is the only options.

I understand that. The solution? More capitalism. The more industries, businesses, and so on...more work offers. In a real free market, you don't need to be a slave. The truth is that real capitalism is dead. The economy has been usurped by assholes. Lobbying is the standard everywhere. The world has gone to shit.
[automerge]1757291191[/automerge]

You mean illegals

You dumb? No migration crisis in Brazil

 

[HerreraIsBack]

You mean illegals

I never saw they being called illegals. Just informal. I'm using journalism terms here