Controversial General Political Discussion

Logiko

Logiko

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#69,821
#69,821
Natalija said:
there was no incentive to cut costs or innovate
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Why would worker stop trying to make their life better once they share the means of productions or even innovate?

Do you really believe that innovation can't be created for innovative purpose rather than competitive ones?


Natalija said:
good workers have no incentive to work well, bad workers could relax.
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In a socialist society, the value of work would be completely different in nature. Some people would find value in jobs that we currently despise and the same in reverse.

Isn't it a bit cynical to think that we only try to do some productive things because of incentives? What if that was a fallacious thinking and that in reality, the value of work could be found without this incentive of productivity?


Uncle Van said:
It can work in the sense that it gets heavily regulated. People's quality of life deteriorates as it gets unregulated for a reason.
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Even regulated, its structure create exploitation by nature. This can't disappear simply because of regulations sadly... It's immanent of the system..

Capitalism will always create exploitation.. and therefore oppression. It can't be another way.
 
Natalija

Natalija

x
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#69,822
#69,822
Logiko said:
Why would worker stop trying to make their life better once they share the means of productions or even innovate?

Do you really believe that innovation can't be created for innovative purpose rather than competitive ones?



In a socialist society, the value of work would be completely different in nature. Some people would find value in jobs that we currently despise and the same in reverse.

Isn't it a bit cynical to think that we only try to do some productive things because of incentives? What if that was a fallacious thinking and that in reality, the value of work could be found without this incentive of productivity?
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Logiko, I'm not talking about my "ideas" and "beliefs", I'm talking about what happened in reality, to us.
 
Uncle Van

Uncle Van

Monké Don't Do Taxes
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#69,823
#69,823
Logiko said:
Even regulated, its structure create exploitation by nature. This can't disappear simply because of regulations sadly... It's immanent of the system..

Capitalism will always create exploitation.. and therefore oppression. It can't be another way.
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Yes this is all true. But for the time being, heavy regulation is needed to limit to damage until something better is found.
 
Logiko

Logiko

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#69,824
#69,824
Natalija said:
Logiko, I'm not talking about my "ideas" and "beliefs", I'm talking about what happened in reality, to us.
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What happened and still happening in reality is state capitalism. A sub form of the state of transition between capitalism and communism. Only one of the form that can take the passage between capitalism and socialism. A form that not only had internal problems but also was completely shutdown by capitalism itself. In other words, something that can only or mostly go bad.

This is not what I described.
 
Natalija

Natalija

x
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#69,826
#69,826
Logiko said:
What happened and still happening in reality is state capitalism. A sub form of the state of transition between capitalism and communism. Only one of the form that can take the passage between capitalism and socialism. A form that not only had internal problems but also was completely shutdown by capitalism itself. In other words, something that can only or mostly go bad.

This is not what I described.
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No, sorry, we had a fully socialist state with the exact worker self-management you like. Fully.


I give up :josad:
 
Uncle Van

Uncle Van

Monké Don't Do Taxes
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#69,828
#69,828
How bout a society where people can afford basic necessities for full-time work on minimum wage like before? When you can make 5x minimum wage and still cant afford the basics there's a serious problem.

I highly doubt paying people the same for different types of work is very smart though. Good luck convincing a construction or trash worker that he deserves the same pay as a receptionist.
 
CoC: Color of Clowns

CoC: Color of Clowns

The Emperor Wears Hoes as Meat Shields
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#69,830
#69,830


This is about as ass backwards as the old medieval paintings where they drew the demons with their genitals and facial features swapped

It's about power to these people. If the laws stop them from killing and raping who they want, they'll just change the laws with threats and bribery until they can.

Makes you wonder if the hits on Democratic lawmakers in 2025 were state sponsored.
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Greenland better watch out, these terrorists are rabid.



NATO never had anything to do with protecting Europe, is was always about furthering US business interests while European parasite rulers sold their people out to profit off of fucking up non-European nations for the rich.

Interested to see how the European rulers flop around after this latest escalation.

Any of them who want to say the freaks blackmailing Trump with his sex tapes would never invade Europe, should study the past better, especially the part where weak, gutless European rulers pretending to be leaders said Hitler would NEVER invade Poland.

Yes, he would, because he's a criminal who profits off of killing people.

Duh.
 
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GalaxyLevelShanks

GalaxyLevelShanks

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#69,831
#69,831
Logiko said:
Isn't it a bit cynical to think that we only try to do some productive things because of incentives?
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It’s not cynical, it’s simply how the human mind is. 99% of people aren’t selfless enough to do hard work and expect no personal gain. Sure, a lot of people do charity or volunteering too in their lives but majority of the hard work they do (especially in their professional lives) is done for incentive of a higher pay and a better life. Most people don’t wanna waste their time and energy to get nothing in return. Human nature isn’t gonna magically change in a socialist society. It sounds idealistic and is a great idea on paper but competition is very necessary in a market.
 
Bisoromi Bear

Bisoromi Bear

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#69,832
#69,832
Roo said:
Except it isn't direct foreign nations, it's corporations.
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Foreign nationals. Pardon my French.
When you realize multinational corporations and states function in similar ways it will all make sense.

Mathias said:
There is no way that the US decides to just lose "the case" and let Maduro go back to Venezuela.

He will spend the rest of his life behind bars or executed or way worse.

I don't care much about him personally but this is very bad for diplomacy with Latin American lefties (and more).
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When global travel breaks down due to lack of fuel/planes and/or general cultural decline, the US might just shift their focus entirely to central and south America.
Be ready conejos :pepebusi:

MonochromeYoru said:
Worst case is armed uprisings against the murican invaders that end in bloodshed on both sides.
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No that's the best case.

Natalija said:
Capitalism is the most successful economic system out of everything which was tried in history, but if you think of something better, make a suggestion. As long as it isn't socialism.

:kayneshrug:
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The word you're looking for is survivors' bias
 
GalaxyLevelShanks

GalaxyLevelShanks

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#69,834
#69,834
Roo said:
Name them

I keep asking which version of a socialist/communist society doesn't needs a one party rule and I keep getting no answers. Instead you mentioned earlier the entire world most become socialist before it even succeeds lmao
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Why do you expect answers when their entire ideology relies on hating capitalism more than actually propping socialism? Lol
 
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