Again, an action can do no physical harm but still be immoral.

Relationships between consenting adults can do no physical harm and still be immoral.

For example, two people who are closely related may marry. Nobody may be harmed there, but we would still condemn that because we recognize it is not natural.
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I get your argument. You're saying that someone who is against transgenderism is against homosexuality because the former (socially) leads to the latter.

I would ask that you factor intentionality into being for or against something. Someone may intend to be for something but unintentionally do something that leads to being against it.

You could argue Trump is doing something that leads to gay marriage being banned by being against transgenders, but he formally he does not intend that at all. In his will, he is not against gay marriage
One: Incestual relationships are often predatory and destroy healthy norms built within that family for years on end.
Two: Incestual relationships can also lead to very deformed children.
Three: You would have to prove that there are such detrimental downsides to homoerotic relationships in order for your point to be valid. Otherwise, calling homosexuality immoral is an argument with no actual logic behind it.
 
One: Incestual relationships are often predatory and destroy healthy norms built within that family for years on end.
Two: Incestual relationships can also lead to very deformed children.
.
What about if the incestuous relationship is not predatory, and they don't have any children (say they are infertile or decide to contracept).

Would it be okay, then?
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Three: You would have to prove that there are such detrimental downsides to homoerotic relationships in order for your point to be valid. Otherwise, calling homosexuality immoral is an argument with no actual logic behind it.
No, because physical detriment don't decide good and evil, many non physically detrimental actions can be immoral or evil.
 
Again, an action can do no physical harm but still be immoral.

Relationships between consenting adults can do no physical harm and still be immoral.

For example, two people who are closely related may marry. Nobody may be harmed there, but we would still condemn that because we recognize it is not natural.
There is no reasons to consider homosexuality as immoral. Whether it's natural or not does not even matter. It exist, period.

The immorality of a non natural state is pure nonsensical logic. There is absolutely no basis in the saying:

"X is not natural therefore X is immoral" Whether we talk about homosexuality, Cars, Trees, One Piece or the accaparation of the entire capitals of the planet by a few individuals.

If you want to judge the existence of something, you use ethics. Not morality that is completely religiously biased. This means understanding WHY something should be considered as immoral and unethical as a first place. And for that we look at the damage that said action can do.

In this case : 0. None. Nada. Nothing. Absolutely 0 damage whatsoever. So no matter if cars, trees or homosexuality are natural or non natural. It does not matter, what should be looked is what the existence of those things create and the effect on the social world.

Anyone with a brain and basic logic should understand that.

You could argue Trump is doing something that leads to gay marriage being banned by being against transgenders, but he formally he does not intend that at all. In his will, he is not against gay marriage
Intent is irrelevant in such ethical and political question. It's the political effect of the systemism of the oppression that matters.

We know, because it was documented, that the field of LGBTQI+ rights is interconnected by a fragile and highly volatile web, it's only a question of month for people who fight transgender now, to fight gay people later. It's a logic of transfert of oppression due to the overlapping domination system that are patriarchy, capitalism and ableism in this case.

It happens in other types of domination system as well. For ex I currently struggle with the same process in France:

The gov (and the social dem left) is trying to pass a law that allow for the assisted suicide of people in dire conditions. In theory, it's good news for people who are in pure torture.... but in practice, it's a pandora box.

We know - because it was documented and researched, once again - that if we allow such process under capitalism, capitalism, as a system of domination that works with ableism will produce enough pressure to push people with lesser and lesser problematic condition to seek the solution of ending their lives instead of helping them find new solution to live a better one.

It's a simple systemic logic (that is actually much easier to understand when we are thinking with po.. materialism). Rights, are interconnected, systems are interconnected, oppressions are interconnected.

So if we allow this in France tomorrow, the government or rather the institution willl push this:


In reality and practice, it means that the poorer you are, the easier will be to have access to assisted suicide... and by simple logic (if you already went through this, you will understand)...

.. The likelier you will be to end your life.
 
There is no reasons to consider homosexuality as immoral. Whether it's natural or not does not even matter. It exist, period.

The immorality of a non natural state is pure nonsensical logic. There is absolutely no basis in the saying:

"X is not natural therefore X is immoral" Whether we talk about homosexuality, Cars, Trees, One Piece or the accaparation of the entire capitals of the planet by a few individuals.

If you want to judge an action, you use ethics. Not morality that is completely religiously biased. This means understanding WHY something should be considered as immoral and unethical as a first place. And for that we look at the damage that said action can do.

In this case : 0. None. Nada. Nothing. Absolutely 0 damage whatsoever. So no matter if cars, trees or homosexuality are natural or non natural. It does not matter, what should be looked is what the existence of those things create and the effect on the social world.

Anyone with a brain and basic logic should understand that.


Intent is irrelevant in such ethical and political question. It's the political effect of the systemism of the oppression that matters.

We know, because it was documented, that the field of LGBTQI+ rights is interconnected by a fragile and highly volatile web, it's only a question of month for people who fight transgender now, to fight gay people later. It's a logic of transfert of oppression due to the overlapping domination system that are patriarchy, capitalism and ableism in this case.

It happens in other types of domination system as well. For ex I currently struggle with the same process in France:

The gov (and the social dem left) is trying to pass a law that allow for the assisted suicide of people in dire conditions. In theory, it's good news for people who are in pure torture.... but in practice, it's a pandora box.

We know - because it was documented and researched, once again - that if we allow such process under capitalism, capitalism, as a system of domination that works with ableism will produce enough pressure to push people with lesser and lesser problematic condition to seek the solution of ending their lives instead of helping them find new solution to live a better one.

It's a simple systemic logic (that is actually much easier to understand when we are thinking with po.. materialism). Rights, are interconnected, systems are interconnected, oppressions are interconnected.

So if we allow this in France tomorrow, the government or rather the institution willl push this:

But bro incest is also not natural so clearly homosexuality is
What do you mean those are two incredibly different things with one being an extremely creepy and disgusting practice which isn't comparable to two people of the same gender simply being in love
 
Why do YOU think incest is wrong then?
It seems I've made my point clear to you the problem in your logic: a relationship between two consenting adults can be immoral, even if nothing physically is harmful going on.

A relationship between two consenting adults may not be physically harmful (such as a homosexual one, or an incestuous one in the example I gave), but that doesn't automatically make it okay.

Incest is evil because it goes against the nature of human sexuality in some way, homosexuality also goes against this nature but in a different way.
 
I feel like in modern America, the parties have somewhat swapped sides again.

In that more and more, the Democratic Party actually feels like the Conservative Party, wishing to conserve traditional American values. Those being: immigration, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, due process, and limited government.

Whereas the Republican Party is becoming a full blown fascist party. A party that wants: the 10 commandments in schools, mass deportations, free speech crackdowns, rewriting birthright citizenship, etc.

Genuinely feel like Bush-era republicans might be closer in ideology to modern democrats than current republicans.
 
There is no reasons to consider homosexuality as immoral. Whether it's natural or not does not even matter. It exist, period.
It doesn't exist. Actually, any evil action doesn't exist in of itself, but as a distortion of good.


But bro incest is also not natural so clearly homosexuality is
What do you mean those are two incredibly different things with one being an extremely creepy and disgusting practice which isn't comparable to two people of the same gender simply being in love
Your standard was, "two consenting adults that aren't harming each other".

Arbitrarily, you are OKAY with some form of this, but not another form of it. It's a contradiction in terms.
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And for that we look at the damage that said action can do
You have schizophrenia. There's plenty of examples of actions that don't do "damage" but are still immoral.

For example, acts of omission such as not saving a drowning person. Or consensual, incest relationships. Or white lies.
 
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It doesn't exist. Actually, any evil action doesn't exist in of itself, but as a distortion of good.




Your standard was, "two consenting adults that aren't harming each other".

Arbitrarily, you are OKAY with some form of this, but not another form of it. It's a contradiction in terms.
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You have schizophrenia. There's plenty of examples of actions that don't do "damage" but are still immoral.

For example, acts of omission such as not saving a drowning person. Or consensual, incest relationships. Or white lies.
Because homosexuality is factually not hurting anyone in anyway
Incest is nearly synonymous with predatory behavior
Homosexuality isn't.
 
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