Character Discussion Great Monster Duo and clear hierarchy presented by Oda
- Thread starter Orojackson Refugee
- Start date
Credits to @Cinera for his excellent explanation on the great duo luffy and zoro
Acknowledgements
This is an expansion of a reply to @Gyro1987 in another thread.
Disclaimer
I tag a lot of people for my posts. If you want to be removed from my tag lists, let me know. Likewise, if you want to be added.
Introduction
Zoro and Luffy have been the only Supernova that have been depicted as being capable of properly damaging Kaido. Many people seem to have not fully grokked this and persist in claims that Zoro has been grouped with Killer, while the captains have been grouped together as some sort of "Monster Trio". That is patently false, for if any subset of the Supernovas have been singled out, it is the aforementioned duo.
Luffy
Zoro
The Rest
Conclusions
Zoro and Luffy have repeatedly received decisively superior portrayal to their fellow Rooftop Supernova. On several occasions, Oda drove in that as far as offensive prowess went, they were on a different calibre compared to their fellow Supernova. They alone had the ability to properly damage the invincible Kaido. They alone have had their attacks dodged by Kaido.
They are just built different.
Summary
To summarise my claims so far:
This is an expansion of a reply to @Gyro1987 in another thread.
Disclaimer
I tag a lot of people for my posts. If you want to be removed from my tag lists, let me know. Likewise, if you want to be added.
Introduction
Zoro and Luffy have been the only Supernova that have been depicted as being capable of properly damaging Kaido. Many people seem to have not fully grokked this and persist in claims that Zoro has been grouped with Killer, while the captains have been grouped together as some sort of "Monster Trio". That is patently false, for if any subset of the Supernovas have been singled out, it is the aforementioned duo.
Luffy
For Luffy, this was demonstrated via Red Roc, Kong Gatling and Red Hawk:
- Red Roc
- Mama questioned how Kaido could let himself get hit like that:
- Kaido was shocked that Luffy's punch could damage him:
- Kidd commented that he couldn't believe physical blows could hurt Kaido:
- Killer cried out in relief that they stood a chance of winning:
- This means that prior to Red Roc, Killer did not actually believe they could win.
- This reinforces that Killer and Kidd lacked the means to properly damage Kaido.
- This means that prior to Red Roc, Killer did not actually believe they could win.
- Kaido questioned what happened after he defeated Luffy that Luffy was now one of the "scant few" capable of properly fighting him
- Kaido questioned how high Luffy's ceiling would go and compared him to the likes of Roger, Whitebeard, and co:
- The attack left Kaido grinning:
- Mama questioned how Kaido could let himself get hit like that:
- Kong Gatling
- Mama was amazed:
- Kidd was stupefied:
- Mama actually inquired about Kaido after the attack
- This shows that she was unsure as to whether Kaido was okay after receiving such a powerful assault.
- Kidd comments that Luffy's drawback of losing his haki for 10 minutes would be worth it if his blows did actual damage:
- This reinforces that Kidd's own attacks weren't dealing actual damage.
- Mama was amazed:
- Red Hawk(?)
- Kaido chooses to dodge Luffy's attack:
- Luffy questions why Kaido is dodging his attack, speculating that it's because it would do real damage:
- Kaido chooses to dodge Luffy's attack:
Zoro
For Zoro this was demonstrated via Hiryuu Kaen and Kokujo Ou Tatsumaki:
- Hiryuu Kaen
- It was so potent that it terrified Big Mom (a top tier swordsman in her own right, and along with Kaido one of the most durable characters in the series). It compelled Big Mom to warn Kaido to dodge:
- This is the only attack on the Rooftop that Kaido felt the need to dodge.
- Just witnessing Zoro prepare the attack had Kaido shook:
- After Kaido successfully dodged the attack, Mama chastised him for greatly underestimating Zoro:
- It was so potent that it terrified Big Mom (a top tier swordsman in her own right, and along with Kaido one of the most durable characters in the series). It compelled Big Mom to warn Kaido to dodge:
- Kokujo Ou Tatsumaki
- Kaido acknowledged that Zoro successfully countered his Tatsumaki:
- Kaido directly deployed "Tatsumaki: Gale of Destruction" in response to Zoro:
- Killer expresses surprise that Zoro cut Kaido:
- Mama is surprised at Zoro cutting Kaido:
- Kaido acknowledged that Zoro successfully countered his Tatsumaki:
The Rest
On the other hand, here's how the Yonkou regarded the attacks of the other Supernova:
Given the reactions of the Yonkou, the only on panel Supernova attacks that were capable of dealing significant damage to Kaido were:
- Kaido previously called Law's Gamma Knife, Kidd's Slam Gibson, and Luffy's Kong Rifle "tricks":
- He called Killer's Scyther Sonic "vexing":
Given the reactions of the Yonkou, the only on panel Supernova attacks that were capable of dealing significant damage to Kaido were:
- Luffy's Red Roc
- Zoro's Kokujo Ou Tatsumaki
- Luffy's Kong Gatling
- Zoro's Hiryuu Kaen
Conclusions
Zoro and Luffy have repeatedly received decisively superior portrayal to their fellow Rooftop Supernova. On several occasions, Oda drove in that as far as offensive prowess went, they were on a different calibre compared to their fellow Supernova. They alone had the ability to properly damage the invincible Kaido. They alone have had their attacks dodged by Kaido.
They are just built different.
Summary
To summarise my claims so far:
- Luffy and Zoro have been depicted separately from amongst the Rooftop Supernova as the only ones capable of damaging Kaido.
- This was demonstrated by the exceptional portrayal their attacks received:
- Luffy
- Red Roc
- Kong Gatling
- Red Hawk
- Zoro
- Hiryuu Kaen
- Kokujo Ou Tatsumaki
- Luffy
- All the other Supernova attacks were regarded by Kaido as either mere tricks or — more notably in the case of Killer's Sonic Scythe — "vexing".
- Kaido has dodged their attacks
- He dodged Zoro's Hiryuu Kaen
- He dodged Luffy's Red Hawk
