Gyou’Un Is Extremely Underrated (Power Level Discussion)

[Elder Lee Hung]

I’m very shocked to discover how much y’all underrate my man Gyou’Un lol. I must fly to his defense the way Ouki and Tou fly across China.

Gyou’Un is my favorite Zhao character, on par with Riboku in terms of how much I like him lol. From the second he first swung his glaive, he solidified himself as one of my favorite manga characters, so you can imagine my surprise when I see people rating him underneath Tou and Yo Tan Wa as a warrior lol. I’m here to explain, quite simply, why this is ludicrous.

Gyou’Un’s blows are as strong as Gai Mou’s

Gai Mou who has the Weight of a Great General just like Ren Pa

He was called “the Martial Might of Zhao” in an era where Ren Pa was in his physical prime

He fought to claim the heads of the Qin 6

Gyou’Un has slayed Great Generals before

Tactically, he was personally trained by Rin Shou Jou (one of the greatest strategists ever), and Chou Garyuu states that the stronger the strategist, the more deeply Gyou’Un will be able to dominate them

His might was described by Gunei as “inhuman,” Gu Nei who had 45 years of experience as a tactician and could replicate some of Ou Sen’s tactics

And of course, he completely dismantled Karyo Ten in terms of strategy, and she was personally trained by Shouheikun himself

Gyou’Un is absolutely top tier as a General. His offensive abilities (tactics, fighting strength, elite troops, etc) are on par with top tier Great Generals imo. What do you guys think of Gyou’Un?

@Owl Ki @Blackbeard @RayanOO @MarineHQ62 @Shanks @Xione @Bullet @Dark Admiral @Greenbeard @Arara @Den_Den_Mushi @dizzy2341 @Monet @mad monk @ranady @Luffy is the mc @Patryipe

 

[RayanOO]

Gyou'un is great and his presence was one of the best things during the Shukai plains. Badass smart and good vibes. I liked his history too, with RSJ and his promise.

But he ain't Renpa/Ouki.

Gyou'un is an extremely solid underling : like Kaishibou/Akou/Bananji etc

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Gyou'un is great and his presence was one of the best things during the Shukai plains. Badass smart and good vibes. I liked his history too, with RSJ and his promise.

But he ain't Renpa/Ouki.

Gyou'un is an extremely solid underlying : like Kaishibou/Akou/Bananji etc

Gyou’Un from a story perspective is essentially supposed to be a Dark Ouki parallel lol. He is what Ouki would have become if Ouki had become jaded and abandoned his dreams of unification.

I’ll go into detail on this in a thread in the future, but the point of what I’m saying is,

Yes. Gyou’Un literally is an Ouki parrallel.

 

[Patryipe]

Don't think that putting Renpa above him means that he's underrated, Renpa is one of the GOATs.

 

[Xione]

Man's out here compared this minor character who was there to give some martial hype to Ouhon, to the man who is the end game aim for the MC.

Has it occurred to you that you might be the one overrating him? But as a character I liked his & CHG's story arc with the prophecy, I do think he shouldn't have dived so much into and kept himself more rational at the end. I also wanted Hara to expand more into his character in terms of strategy, since he was like a mini-Renpa with being skilled at strategy + having instincts while being a powerhouse in martial strength. As far as arc exclusive generals go, I still like Kanmei more.


- His blow was similar to Gaimou, not the same as Gaimou, that "probably" was added in for a reason. Meaning he's on the same level, but not Gaimou's equal. Details matter.
- Every general has "Weight of a General", the issue is who has how much. The weight of the blows in your panel is not confirming Gaimou having the same weight of a general as Renpa. As that comes in when one starts to be pushed to their limits by the opponent.
- Renpa & Ouki both looked down on Gaimou, and had no interest in dueling him. Renpa is somebody who loves fighting, meaning if he looked down on Gaimou, it'd be because he can whoop his ass.

Spoiler

- Something that was confirmed by Gaimou's flashback. Where Ouki flat out says, dueling him isn't worth the effort, because he hasn't found something fighting for. Which matters when it comes to how much weight of a general one carries. Since Ouki would whoop his ass if he can't find that inner strength that only comes with when you fight for something.

Spoiler

- Gaimou flat out says he doesn't believe in dreams or significance of battles or any other shit like that. To him it's just about slaughtering the weak, nothing more & nothing less. He's portrayed as a Houken-esque type of a person. Dreams & Significance of battles both being things related to Weight of a General as stated by Ouki in the Bayou arc.

Spoiler

- Unless you're of the same sentiment as Gaimou that Ouki & Renpa were just fools spouting about non-sense, otherwise no point in mentioning Gaimou over and over to use him as a way to put Gyou'un on par with Renpa and Ouki.


Also, if you're going to claim Gyou'un > Renpa, you should be claiming Gyou'un > Ouki as well. Renpa is confirmed to have fought Ouki to a standstill. As far the KINGDOM manga is concerned when it comes to fighting Renpa = Ouki.

Spoiler

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

The weight of the blows in your panel is not confirming Gaimou having the same weight of a general as Renpa

I don’t know how I’m supposed to have a legitimate conversation with you when I literally post the panel of Shin saying Gaimou and Renpa have the “exact same” weight and you still outright deny it lol.

Maybe Gyou’Un isn’t underrated, maybe Renpa is just hella overrated. Gyou’Un would send that Bananji-tier jobber’s head flying at a high diff at worst. Mougou almost slayed Renpa ffs lol.

 

[Xione]

I don’t know how I’m supposed to have a legitimate conversation with you when I literally post the label if Shin saying Gaimou and Renpa have the “exact same” weight and you still outright deny it lol.

Maybe Gyou’Un isn’t underrated, maybe Renpa is just hella overrated. Gyou’Un would send that Bananji-tier jobber’s head flying at a high diff at worst. Mougou almost slayed Renpa ffs lol.

I'll ask you the same. How can we have a legitimate conversation or even take you serious in your arguments, when you blatantly ignore the panel of Shin saying Renpa & Ouki didn't find him worthy? Panel of Ouki flatout not being interested in him? Panels that literally show he doesn't have weight of general like Renpa & Ouki?

Flat out ignoring the panel that states Ouki = Renpa. @Bananji-tier jobber. Well if you consider Ouki to be a jobber, then aye keep on fighting that good fight, I'm sure some folks will eventually hop on the Gyou'un bandwagon, since not everyone pays attention to the details of the story.

Bruh Mougou is one of my favorite generals in the damn manga period, don't make me go against him just because you're terrible at rating Renpa.
LMAO @ Mougou nearly slaying Renpa. Yo bruh wtf are you smoking? Issue here has nothing to do with Renpa being overrated, my dude you just don't like Renpa.

Spoiler

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

How can we have a legitimate conversation or even take you serious in your arguments, when you blatantly ignore the panel of Shin saying Renpa & Ouki didn't find him worthy?

Because Ouki “not finding Gaimou worthy” had nothing to do with Gaimou’s strength and everything to do with the fact that Gaimou didn’t have a dream or anything worth fighting for.

In terms of Gaimou’s strength, it’s not even a discussion. His weight is on par with Renpa and Gyou’Un.

LMAO @ Mougou nearly slaying Renpa. Yo bruh wtf are you smoking? Issue here has nothing to do with Renpa being overrated, my dude you just don't like Renpa.

You know that was banter lol. But you’re right, I don’t like Renpa that much but I think he’s a well written character, he just doesn’t float my boat. Doesn’t change the fact that he’s been definitively placed below Gyou’Un multiple times.

 

[Xione]

Because Ouki “not finding Gaimou worthy” had nothing to do with Gaimou’s strength and everything to do with the fact that Gaimou didn’t have a dream or anything worth fighting for.

In terms of Gaimou’s strength, it’s not even a discussion. His weight is on par with Renpa and Gyou’Un.



You know that was banter lol. But you’re right, I don’t like Renpa that much but I think he’s a well written character, he just doesn’t float my boat. Doesn’t change the fact that he’s been definitively placed below Gyou’Un multiple times.

Ouki stated he doesn't have anything he fights for, which is what Weight of a General is. The OG general of the manga, Ouki, specifically pointed out, having Weight of a General is related to carrying the Dreams and Hopes of the people you have killed (enemies) and people who have died for you (comrades).
He was mocking the fuck out of Houken, because of that very reason.
Gaimou flat out says he doesn't believe in that non-sense regarding dreams or w.e. Meaning, he ain't carrying no dreams and hopes of people that brings out somebody's inner power.

Reflect back to just the previous Zhao arc:

Gyou'un - despite his arm injury, was able to fight through it because he had something he was fighting for, fullfilling the promise/words left to him by RSJ
Garyuu - same thing as Gyou'un, he got a great power boost during his last moments by remebering to RSJ's words to him.
Shin - Against Houken, kept going and going fueled by the dreams and hopes of his comrades and his enemies:

Spoiler

Even this current arc, this shit is brought up again:
Man'U questioning Moubu as to what he fights for, that makes him strong.


We are told time after time that carrying the dreams of your enemies & comrades, and as well having an ideal to fight for, brings out somebody's inner strength when they're pushed to their limits.

Gaimou does not have that, because he thinks it's bullshit. That is why on a physical level martially, yes his blow carries the same weight as Renpa's and Ouki's. But in an actual fight he would lose to them, that is why Renpa and Ouki had no interest in entertaining a duel with him, because it wouldn't be worth going against somebody who can't bring in his inner strength. No different than Houken. Gyou'un carried a bigger weight of a general than Gaimou does.



In the manga he is Ouki's equal, period. They've literally fought to a standstill. Renpa is the only person who's been stated to have fought Ouki to a standstill. And Ouki is the only person who's stated to have fought Renpa to a standstill.

These two are the top of the Martial world in Kingdom. If you're willing to claim Gyou'un > Renpa. You HAVE to claim Gyou'un > Ouki.

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

Ouki stated he doesn't have anything he fights for, which is what Weight of a General is. The OG general of the manga, Ouki, specifically pointed out, having Weight of a General is related to carrying the Dreams and Hopes of the people you have killed (enemies) and people who have died for you (comrades).
He was mocking the fuck out of Houken, because of that very reason.
Gaimou flat out says he doesn't believe in that non-sense regarding dreams or w.e. Meaning, he ain't carrying no dreams and hopes of people that brings out somebody's inner power.

You know, I respect the logic, but at the end of the day I’m going to go with Shin’s words on this. It’s clear that Gaimou does have some kind of motivation that gives him weight on par with Ren Pa, I don’t believe for a second that Hara would outright lie to us about Gaimou like that.

Hara was trying to hype the Fire Dragons as being Great Generals on par with Ren Pa, and thus he has Shin internally remark that Gaimou’s blows were equivalent to Renpa’s. It doesn’t make any narrative sense for Hara to lie to us in a scene like this.

In the manga he is Ouki's equal, period. They've literally fought to a standstill. Renpa is the only person who's been stated to have fought Ouki to a standstill. And Ouki is the only person who's stated to have fought Renpa to a standstill.

These two are the top of the Martial world in Kingdom. If you're willing to claim Gyou'un > Renpa. You HAVE to claim Gyou'un > Ouki.

A couple of things:

1. I’m not entirely convinced that Hara is referencing a “physical fight” there, we know with certainty that Ouki and Renpa have fought as commanders before, which doesn’t necessarily mean that they’ve physically fought before. But don’t worry, I’m not dodging the question because

2. I think Ouki >= Renpa in the same way that I think Renpa >= Kaishibou/Bananji. I don’t think they’re a world apart in strength in the same way that I don’t think Gyou’Un and Renpa are a world apart in strength.

I think Ou Ki in his prime seems to have been portrayed as the strongest warrior of the Qin in the same way that Gyou’Un was portrayed the strongest of the Zhao.

But if I found out tomorrow that Gyou’Un were stronger the Ouki, this wouldn’t surprise me. Ouki is not the strongest in the manga or anything like that, as Moubu, Man’U, Kan Mei, Houken, are people who I would say are surely above him.

 

[Shanks]

I don't think GyouUn is underrated in any way. Though comparing him with Ouki and or Renpa won't be good as both of these two GG were hyped by Hara the most.

GyouUn "was" once known as the martial might of Zhao. I think here Hara used "was" because in the presence of Houken, he won't be strongest of Zhao. Now this same Houken was bested by Ouki (twice).

But still GyouUn is one of the strongest in the series so far.

 

[Dark Admiral]

Gyou'Un is one of the toughest guy introduced in the series but I wouldn't put him any higher than Gaimou or Man'U. He has almost got it to become the the GG but still comes short. Him representing the Martial Might of Zhao while Renpa was still in prime doesn't put him above Renpa in a duel. Kanmei was also proven stronger than Moubu but we all know how it turned out. The only reason he outsmarted Ten was because of her lack of experience in the full scale battle and him having the edge of Instinctual General who had survived countless battles under RSJ. He was later on equally matched by Shin in the battle of instinct.
Its as @Xione had said, he's not underestimated by all you're just overestimating him. lol

 

[Elder Lee Hung]

The only reason he outsmarted Ten was because of her lack of experience in the full scale battle and him having the edge of Instinctual General who had survived countless battles under RSJ

Actually, Chou Garyuu says that “the stronger the strategist, the more Gyou’Un will body them” [paraphrased], and given that Rinshoujou himself was Gyou’Un’s teacher, I’m inclined to believe this claim. Lol

 

[FaradaySloth]

Although it might seem Gyou’un is superior to Renpa, would not be surprised that in the future Renpa would get some insane feats to put him back on top