Questions & Mysteries Has Eustass Kid been to Lodestar Island?

[ImmaIvanoM]

This is a speculation that requires some amount of preamble.

I'll start with pointing out the somewhat superficial connection between Eustass Kid and this Lodestar. Lodestar comes from Lodestone. Lodestone was the natural MAGNETIC material used in early compasses for navigation and since they pointed towards the North where the Northstar was found, the Northstar also came to be known as the Lodestar.

Anyway the point is Lodestone is a magnet and Kid is the supposed Master of magnetism so to speak.

This is the connection that led me to this and so this is what I think has been going on with Kid for a while now.

Kid entered the Grandline two years ago and due to his powers, he doesn't really have to follow the usual log pose routes that everyone else does in order to traverse the grandline. Due to his magnetism he actually finds Lodestar via a shortcut of some kind without following the Yonkou ridden islands or those whacky islands everyone else kept running into like Raijin island or whatever.

Once on Loadstar, he found out that his proverbial princess was in another castle, that there is another island that can't be found by cheating using his magnetism powers.

Now he backtracked on his hunt for Poneglyphs and tried his luck with Big mom and managed to steal a rubbing of the Poneglyphs. Of course Big mom says only Luffy and Roger have pulled off stealing from her but she simply may not know Kid pulled this off if he has some very good stealth skills. Though maybe he was just spotted as he left and then got into a fight and fled and so the big mom pirates think they managed to chase him off before he accomplished his goal. Unfortunately he tried his hardest to translate the damn things and realised he doesn't have no Oharan or Kouzuki or Three eye tribe or Voice of all things and fails once again.

Notice the theme here is that Kid wants a Shortcut and keeps failing. First his magnetism gives him a shortcut to the finish line and it's not the finish line. Then he steals the poneglyph rubbings without actually engaging and defeating the Yonkou and he has no way of reading them. Of course Luffy tried this as well but failed as we saw and ended up in a very serious battle that's even continuing into this arc but Luffy will win this time and earn the poneglyphs he stole.

Next, Kid decides to do the thing everyone else has thought of but is too smart to attempt. He goes after a former member of the Roger pirates hoping to get another shortcut without having to struggle with reading the poneglyphs. Oh Lord why he chose Shanks and not Buggy or Rayleigh we shall never know but he does and he gets "disarmed" *badum tssss*.

Out of options now, Eustass Kid hears about some punks who have surprisingly done very well for each other by forming an alliance and defeating a big warlord. Kid's man Killer proposes alliances might be the way to go to actually get shit done in the new world against these monstrosities but once again, Kid takes a shortcut. Kid doesn't know that those punks who defeated that warlord did so by establishing a very strong emotional bond through their trials together and that is what cemented the strength of their alliance and kid doesn't have time for that. He believes just the single minded pursuit of his lofty ambitions is enough to just sway a certain magician and muscian to suddenly be fiercely loyal to this alliance and their goal. Lo and behold the muscian betrays the alliance and Kid gets smacked by a dragon and his man is mentally broken. Once again, shortcuts and failure.

That's brings us to now.

The only other thing left to discuss is what's next. Why is Kid having reached Lodestar and gone through all this important. Well like it or not, it's for Luffy's sake.

Luffy is the one who will be pirate king in the end and unfortunately everything in the story is leading up to that, including Kid as a character.

First of all, Luffy is the one who actually is on that shortcut that Kid wants. Roger reached Raftel through a life long journey spanning decades and Luffy is sprinting there in a matter of months. The difference between Kids' shortcut and Luffy's though is that Luffy works for it. He worked for his alliances to be as steady as they are, he worked for getting a poneglyph translator, he has been working for these poneglyphs. All the while Kid has been looking for the easiest work around all these.

The reason Kid and his journey are important is because Luffy will win him over by defeating Kaido and Big mom and Kid will give Luffy the shortcut to Lodestar. That's it. Kid has gone through all these failures so that when he sees Luffy succeed at basically everything he himself failed at, he will concede defeat and help Luffy by giving him a route to Lodestar no one without magnetism power can find.


P.s. Merry Christmas

 

[Lampyris]

That would be a very huge deal. Roger said they were the first people to reach Lodestar Island, and this was after the God Valley incident meaning not even Rocks and Whitebeard got there. It must be an incredible feat in itself for anyone else to get there without the Pirate King's crew.

Spoiler

You technically only have to follow the Log Pose to the final destination, meaning Kid's power is not needed for this. There must be a very challenging natural phenomenon keeping Lodestar Island hidden that nobody until Roger managed to surmount. Surely Rocks didn't lack power or had a shortage of talented navigators, Shiki could even make the ship fly.

Is Lodestar a sky island? An island hidden underwater? I'm not sure how Eustass Kid would get there. There's no hint he's an especially talented navigator, or that Lodestar has a magnetic barrier stopping Log Poses. Remember Rocks was beginning to learn about taboo subjects like poneglyphs, knowledge likely passed on to Kaido and Big Mom, but he never made it to Lodestar to acquire this knowledge. Here Roger would be telling Whitebeard something he already knows.

Kid can prove his worth by helping in the battle against Kaido and Big Mom. A shortcut to Lodestar is not something Luffy would appreciate, he would probably rip the shortcut to pieces and piss off Kid. Making that kind of contribution worthless, and his achievement of making to Lodestar before Luffy a rather unnecessary inclusion by Oda.

 

[Nvax]

I think that would be a way of solidifying Kidd as a true rival to Luffy. He's achieved very few could do

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

No

 

[Diamond]

Eh, I say probably not. Looks like Kid wanted to target the emperors first either for their poneglyphs or an attempt to overthrow them like Capone Beige tried.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

That would be a very huge deal. Roger said they were the first people to reach Lodestar Island, and this was after the God Valley incident meaning not even Rocks and Whitebeard got there. It must be an incredible feat in itself for anyone else to get there without the Pirate King's crew.

Spoiler

You technically only have to follow the Log Pose to the final destination, meaning Kid's power is not needed for this. There must be a very challenging natural phenomenon keeping Lodestar Island hidden that nobody until Roger managed to surmount. Surely Rocks didn't lack power or had a shortage of talented navigators, Shiki could even make the ship fly.

Is Lodestar a sky island? An island hidden underwater? I'm not sure how Eustass Kid would get there. There's no hint he's an especially talented navigator, or that Lodestar has a magnetic barrier stopping Log Poses. Remember Rocks was beginning to learn about taboo subjects like poneglyphs, knowledge likely passed on to Kaido and Big Mom, but he never made it to Lodestar to acquire this knowledge. Here Roger would be telling Whitebeard something he already knows.

Kid can prove his worth by helping in the battle against Kaido and Big Mom. A shortcut to Lodestar is not something Luffy would appreciate, he would probably rip the shortcut to pieces and piss off Kid. Making that kind of contribution worthless, and his achievement of making to Lodestar before Luffy a rather unnecessary inclusion by Oda.

Hmmm but Luffy already has gotten alot of shortcuts such as him just happening to have Momonosuke on his ship who ends up being so important in Zou and wano... Like Luffy has shortcuts already but the difference is that his shortcuts are exponentially harder than even Gold Roger's long ass route.

Like Roger did not have to solve a civil war in Skypiea and fight off a wannabe god to get the Skypiea poneglyph, but Luffy did. Roger just snuck around in Totland to get Big mom's poneglyphs but Luffy is the one who ended up in an acctual battle and lost men and the battle is literally continuing with the requirement that Luffy has to actually beat Big mom. See Luffy’s journey is a short cut but in the end it's much harder than Roger's. And if Luffy has to defeat Both Kaido and Big mom to win Kid over, then I'm sure that's a good enough accomplishment for Luffy to have warned a shortcut. Remember that Luffy doesn't have a say in the matter like with Momonosuke being a prince or the plan to steal poneglyph rubbings which Luffy actively was against, the narrative itself always forces Luffy to have to earn these things and it always rewards Luffy for earning them wget her he conciously knows it or not.

Now of course Killer will contribute to Kaido's demise but there's no way he is the most important part in this... Already it's Luffy who has gathered like 98% of the forces to fight, it's Luffy who freed Kid and killer, it's Luffy who everyone thinks has a doctor to cure Killer's disease.... The story is already set for Luffy and his men to be the key factor in all of this and unless Kid is like completely unself-aware, I am banking on the fact that he actually recognises how much Luffy will accomplish compared to him in this struggle. Like you remember that panel of Kid just staring at Luffy when Luffy won over the prison, that panel right there is the most telling panel of Kid actually string to recognise his place in all this. Kid even says that he won't kill Luffy because of what he witnessed so it's already being set up that Kid is making compromises whenever he witnesses Luffy's greatness and the defeat of two emperors will be the final nail in the coffin

Post automatically merged: Dec 25, 2019

first either for their poneglyphs or an attempt to overthrow them like Capone Beige tried.

See my question is how would kid know about the importance of poneglyphs WITHOUT havig reached Lodestar.

Like the strawhats had Robin and even then they still needed the Zou arc to learn about the road poneglyphs.... Kid doesn't have a Robin and hasn't been to Zou so surely he wouldn't know about that things unless he went to Lodestar

And we know Kid isn't like Capone since he himself said he went into Totland to steal something from Big mom, not to fight her. The only Emperor Kid has fought is Shanks. So my theory is explaining Kid's behaviour, why go to steal something from big mom, and yet fight shanks? Well what if he went to steal poneglyphs from Big mom but realises he can't read them so he just goes after a former Roger pirate instead. Of course we have to explain how he learned about Poneglyphs to begin with and that's where him going to Lodestar already comes in

 

[JerAx]

stop, kid sucks
blakbeard is the true rival

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

stop, kid sucks
blakbeard is the true rival

Did you read the thread before commenting?

 

[Buusatan94]

Possible but there is no way to know it. Also it's really unlikely that Kid managed to get a copy of BM's poneglyph since he doesn't seem to have penetrated really far in her territory and I think that what he wanted was something that the BMP didn't view as really important.

 

[Blackbeard]

due to his powers, he doesn't really have to follow the usual log pose routes that everyone else does in order to traverse the grandline. Due to his magnetism he actually finds Lodestar via a shortcut of some kind without following the Yonkou ridden islands or those whacky islands everyone else kept running into like Raijin island or whatever.

Great point here. a creative way to use Eustass's power.

He goes after a former member of the Roger pirates hoping to get another shortcut without having to struggle with reading the poneglyphs. Oh Lord why he chose Shanks and not Buggy or Rayleigh we shall never know but he does and he gets "disarmed" *badum tssss*.

The way Kid and BB are both hinted to have some bad intention towards Shanks is noteworthy too. Eustass, Luffy and Blackbeard are the closest to LT island currently. when the latter two were growing in power Kid must have been doing something in the new world.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

he doesn't seem to have penetrated really far in her territory and I think that what he wanted was something that the BMP didn't view as really important.

What's the level of insignificant are we talking about?

Like if Kid didn't even get into then center of the territory then everything outside said territory is just food islands... Like the most valuable thing outside of WCI itself is maybe some money... And I doubt Kid would get the idea that the easiest way of pillaging money is attacking a yonkou's territory

Anyway, we know Brulee is a very untrustworthy source of information like how she intentionally gases up Katakuri and she somehow failed to mention that Kid even did some damage to a commander

The one trustworthy source of info is probably big mom who says only Roger managed to steal the rubbings BUT we know that Big mom is lied to by everyone around her case in point Opera and Perospero so Big mom could simply not know that Kid managed to steal a rubbing

 

[MD Zolo]

A well-thought and well-written hypothesis. Very plausible to be honest. But Kid doesn't seem like a guy to take shortcuts in my view.

And as you've said, him going after Shanks to read Poneglyph would be the stupidest thing any pirate could ever do.

 

[Buusatan94]

What's the level of insignificant are we talking about?

Like if Kid didn't even get into then center of the territory then everything outside said territory is just food islands... Like the most valuable thing outside of WCI itself is maybe some money... And I doubt Kid would get the idea that the easiest way of pillaging money is attacking a yonkou's territory

Anyway, we know Brulee is a very untrustworthy source of information like how she intentionally gases up Katakuri and she somehow failed to mention that Kid even did some damage to a commander

The one trustworthy source of info is probably big mom who says only Roger managed to steal the rubbings BUT we know that Big mom is lied to by everyone around her case in point Opera and Perospero so Big mom could simply not know that Kid managed to steal a rubbing

We Don't know what Kid was really trying to do in WCI at the time and what item he really was after, he never said that it was a poneglyph or a copy of it. He could very well have sought Something that the BMP didn't see as really important but that he did. And we don't know if Kid really did damage to a SC, especially if the SC in question turns out to be Cracker.
And there is no clue that Kid managed to get to BM's vault anyway.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

A well-thought and well-written hypothesis. Very plausible to be honest. But Kid doesn't seem like a guy to take shortcuts in my view.

And as you've said, him going after Shanks to read Poneglyph would be the stupidest thing any pirate could ever do.

Shortcuts maybe a weak term on my part but I think I sort of explained the difference between What Kid is doing and what Luffy is doing.

Like if you take Roger's journey into acount, both Kid and Luffy are technically using shortcuts since they aren't trying to take decades like Roger to find the one piece.

The difference is though that Luffy's shortcut is much much harder than Kid's and probably even Roger's and so the sotpry is written to awards Luffy with the prize since he went on the hardest journey

I gave an example of Luffy's alliance vs Kid's alliance. At this point it is almost impossible to even imagine that the Mink-pirate-samurai-ninja alliance could break up. The mere existence of this "traitor" is such an anomaly that a lot of fan literally don't believe it. Like Oda has brought this up like five times already that there is a mole but given how much Luffy has gone through with all these characters starting from punk hazard, it's so impossible to imagine someone betraying the alliance that people just plainly ignore Oda teasing the existence of a traitor. That last chapter of act 2 that ends with Law being framed as though he's the traitor was completely dismissed by though the community. That's how much people believe in the bonds Luffy has made.

Now compare that to the "bonds" between Kid and Hawkins and Apoo. Right off the bat, Hawkins is a guy who literally only does things when the probability of success is in his favor. His very gimmick is that he WILL turn sides the moment it's not in his favor. Next is Apoo who when first meeting Kid immediately starts a fight with Kid there and then over who's top dog and immediately there is no hope of atually forming a genuine bond with him. Of course Apoo was a snake BUT we know snakes can turn, we've seen members of one alliance change sides to another alliance multiple times especially when it was Luffy changing them so Kid immediately antagonising Apoo did nothing in the way of potentially winning him over. And so this flimsy alliance collapsed almost immediately due to the flimsy bonds between it

So you see Kid isn't necessarily doomed for taking shortcuts since Luffy does take shortcuts too, it's just that Kid doesn't put in the extra work required for these shortcuts to work out for him the same way they worked for Luffy

 

[Buusatan94]

Anyway it would certainely be interesting for someone with magnetic powers to go to an island named Lodestar Island and which seems to have a really special meaning but knowing how Luffy get the royal treatment of all the supernovas I doubt that it would change much in the run for the One Piece.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

We Don't know what Kid was really trying to do in WCI at the time and what item he really was after, he never said that it was a poneglyph or a copy of it. He could very well have sought Something that the BMP didn't see as really important but that he did. And we don't know if Kid really did damage to a SC, especially if the SC in question turns out to be Cracker.
And there is no clue that Kid managed to get to BM's vault anyway.

Well yes none of this is confirmed, that's why I made a whole thread and called it a "speculation" breaking down how why when everything I'm speculating is confirmed

My main aim is to not contradict the things that have actually been confirmed while I speculate and I think I managed that. I've given a good enough reason explaining why Kid would go after those two specific Yonkou and I've even given thematic ties between everything that I'm speculating so that it's not just random shit that sounds cool for the sake. And of course I acknowledged that the link between Lodestar and Kid is very much tenuous but again, there's nothing disproving the possibility of Kid's powers giving him an advantage over people who just follow log poses.

I mean you saying none of this is confirmed is the point of this being a speculation

Post automatically merged: Dec 25, 2019

Luffy get the royal treatment of all the supernovas I doubt that it would change much in the run for the One Piece.

Well yeah, that's why I ends the speculation by recognising that All this shit would still be in service of Luffy since whether Kid reached Lodestar Island first or not, it's still Luffy who will be pirate king

 

[JerAx]

Did you read the thread before commenting?

yep and I dont think kid is some guy who will uses shortcut.
thats more like blackbeard's kinda jam

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Shortcuts maybe a weak term on my part but I think I sort of explained the difference between What Kid is doing and what Luffy is doing.

Like if you take Roger's journey into acount, both Kid and Luffy are technically using shortcuts since they aren't trying to take decades like Roger to find the one piece.

The difference is though that Luffy's shortcut is much much harder than Kid's and probably even Roger's and so the sotpry is written to awards Luffy with the prize since he went on the hardest journey

I gave an example of Luffy's alliance vs Kid's alliance. At this point it is almost impossible to even imagine that the Mink-pirate-samurai-ninja alliance could break up. The mere existence of this "traitor" is such an anomaly that a lot of fan literally don't believe it. Like Oda has brought this up like five times already that there is a mole but given how much Luffy has gone through with all these characters starting from punk hazard, it's so impossible to imagine someone betraying the alliance that people just plainly ignore Oda teasing the existence of a traitor. That last chapter of act 2 that ends with Law being framed as though he's the traitor was completely dismissed by though the community. That's how much people believe in the bonds Luffy has made.

Now compare that to the "bonds" between Kid and Hawkins and Apoo. Right off the bat, Hawkins is a guy who literally only does things when the probability of success is in his favor. His very gimmick is that he WILL turn sides the moment it's not in his favor. Next is Apoo who when first meeting Kid immediately starts a fight with Kid there and then over who's top dog and immediately there is no hope of atually forming a genuine bond with him. Of course Apoo was a snake BUT we know snakes can turn, we've seen members of one alliance change sides to another alliance multiple times especially when it was Luffy changing them so Kid immediately antagonising Apoo did nothing in the way of potentially winning him over. And so this flimsy alliance collapsed almost immediately due to the flimsy bonds between it

So you see Kid isn't necessarily doomed for taking shortcuts since Luffy does take shortcuts too, it's just that Kid doesn't put in the extra work required for these shortcuts to work out for him the same way they worked for Luffy

@JerAx read this then