Hisoka vs Bisky

[Chrono]

Restrictions:
- Pre Death Hisoka
- Full Form Bisky

Opinions: I think Hisoka extreme diffs tbh. Some people believe Bisky would win, but it seems her trump card is truly her real form. Her real form + KO would have crazy AP but.....Hisoka has deadly lethality. And his ingenuniety with Bungee Gum is too much for her in my opinion. Bisky may have hatsu have other abilities. But going off what we know so far....Hisoka beats her.

@Rosella.Fiamingo if you wanna discuss this.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

If Bungee Gum is visible, I think Bisky has a shot, as that takes away plenty of Hisoka's lethality and overall versatility.

 

[Chrono]

If Bungee Gum is visible, I think Bisky has a shot, as that takes away plenty of Hisoka's lethality and overall versatility.

Not really. Yes Bungee Gum would be visible to Bisky, but its true strength its the properties of Bungee Gum (little joke to fellow Hxh fans)...

Anyways yes Bisky can see his Bungee Gum, but that wont stop him from laying Bungee Gum traps around the area, as he can do so simulatenously whilst fighting Bisky and distracting her.


Knowing Hisoka hed let her land her hitd till he gets an opening. If she goes for a full lethal kill hit, he can just dodge it by retracting Bungee Gum at full speed.

 

[Rosella.Fiamingo]

Bisky Wins on the Lower end of High Difficulty . I think she is very underrated. I'll give a few reasons why she trumps Hisoka.

1. She has 40 Years of Nen and combat experience. Hisoka is a combat genius but, if we take the likes of Morel as an example, having years of experience is a factor that natural talent cannot overcome so easily. Morel with his combat experience was able to stall 2 of the Royal guards who are magnitudes above him in power and destroyed the likes of Cheethu and Leol. We dont know how many years Morel has but Bisky is likely older at 57 and likely has more combat experience.

2. She is physically superior. In the dodgeball game against Razor, she is able to react and dodge a trick ball from Razor that Hisoka who has more time to react could not evade and this was in her smaller form. Additionally, she one shot the enhancer from the bomber's squad Greed Island the moment she got serious with a casual punch. From what we know, she trains alot. One of the Hatsu's she has shown in Cookie Chain (This is likely not her only Hatsu). Is meant to allow you to train at maximum efficiency. Her body thus all her physical stats are likely in tip top form. She likely has the strength advantage over Hisoka by a notable margin even though both of them are Transmuters. Hisoka felt the aura enhanced strikes of a Specialist like Chrollo. The same Chrollo that noted that he couldn't do anything to block Zeno's Gyo with his own Aura. If Chrollo is able to hurt Hisoka, despite having only a 40% efficiency rate in Enhancement, it means that Hisoka's enhancement is likely not up to snuff because a fellow transmuter like Zeno was able force Chrollo into the defensive by a simple show of enhancement superiority. (Bisky's from what he know has trained at least 2 Natural Enhancers in that category.)

Spoiler: Dodgeball Sequence

3. She is a Master of Nen. Continuing with what I said before regarding her being superior to Hisoka despite them being both transmuters. She has mastery over all categories that she has access to. Hisoka by canon has only demonstrated Enhancement, Transmuter and a little conjuration. Bisky is is the Master of Gon's First Master in Wing. Wing is a natural enhancer and for someone like Bisky to train an enhancer to a sufficient level, that must mean that her enhancement is elite for a transmuter. She likely is superior in enhancement since she is such a physical fighter. Additionally, it's important to note that her Aura feats are really fucking impressive as well. A show of how efficient one is at Ko, is how fast they can us it and Bisky has managed to engage Ko instantaneously in addition to her use of Ryu being near flawless as well. It is also worth noting that Bisky is a Master in the Shingen Ryu which is the same nen school that Netero founded. She has been at this nen stuff for a very long time.

To further highlight how much of a master she is, all we need to do is look at Cookie Chan. Cookie Chan uses at least Emission (To materialize her), Transmuter (To transform aura into lotion with special properties), Enhancement(to help aid the body's healing process), and Manipulator (To control and give orders to Cookie Chan). Normally, it's not advisable for nen users to combine categories espeically those more than 1 step away from their natural category. Bisky combines 4 different categories. Of those 4, Manipulator is 3 Steps away and Emission is 2 Steps away. Only those who are very skilled in the use of nen with very high aura reserves can actually pull off using inefficient categories for their Hatsu's. Noteable examples are Netero who uses Emission and Manipulation for his 100 Type, Morel, who uses Transmuter to transmute his smoke despite being a Manipulator (40% efficiency.), and Knov who likely has to use Emission together with Conjuration for his Nen Space. (Emission is the worst category for a conjurer at 40%). Bisky is able to create such a seemingly inefficient Hatsu with no visible setbacks or constraints. Since Cookie Chan is a such a simple ability in regards to what it does, there are likely no conditions to its use meaning that Bisky is paying for the entire Hatsu with her Aura reserves with no strain in the slightest. (We know that Emitters have their aura capped the moment they emit and maintain an object).

Moving back to the Wing point, we don't know how good of a combatant wing is but, it is worth noting that Bisky is a Double Star Hunter meaning that one of her former students has gotten a single star. We are not sure how many stars Wing has but it might be him. Wing who was trained in nen by Bisky is now training other Nen Users in the same school in a fighting Arena. This means Wings combat ability and talent are likely above average at the very least. If we go back to the Hisoka vs Kastro fight, Hisoka comments to Kastro that if he stuck to enhancement, since it was his natural category, he would have won their deathmatch because his Tiger Fist ability while simple is also very strong. This is now veering into "head canon" but, I'd like to view someone like Wing who trains students in heavens arena is a competent fighter and would likely pose as a good opponent to Kastro. If Wing is a good opponent for Kastro, he is likely a good opponent for Hisoka because Wing sticks to what he is good at and is casually a wall buster without the input of force through his enhancing Aura. I think that Bisky would still beat Wing simply due to experience and overall combat superiority but if Wing is a good opponent for someone like Hisoka, and Bisky is Wing's Master and still maintains her body and nen, to me she beats Hisoka.

4. She is a quick thinker : Hisoka is not the only witty individual in this fight. Bisky was the person who devised the plot to defeat Genthru during Greed Island. Her years of combat experience means that she is not easily shaken by adverse or unknown situations. In the Manga, she enters into a nen space and is able to devise the possible mechanisms of action for a Hatsu Ability she doesn't fully understand on the spot. We see that Hisoka is usually able to beat his opponents by stunning them through psychological warfare in the battle. For someone with 40 Years of combat experience, she has likely seen it all she is unlikely to lose her wits from whatever plot Hisoka makes. She herself would also subject Hisoka with similar assaults on his psyche. Even though Hisoka's Bungee Gum is quite simple, it is very effective but, with someone of her caliber, it wouldn't take her very long to figure out the limits of Bungee gum.

Togashi notes that Hisoka is only able to stretch Bungee gum 10m through the use of Emission before it breaks. It is worth noting that the ability to extend one's aura far away from the body is a function of the strength of one's mastery in Emission and the Strength of one's Ten. Bisky has displays of Emission that exceeds 10m and states that someone with a functional grasp on Emission should be able to extend their aura for longer distances and would be able to keep that aura from dissipating for days on end. This simple limit of Hisoka's Emission further highlights the point her superiority in nen overall. She would likely be able to devise this limitation the moment she engages Hisoka much like Zeno was able to devise exactly how Skill Hunter Works the moment Chrollo pulled out Bandit's Secret.

5. Lastly I want to address the elephant in the room which is that Bisky seemingly has no combat nen abilities. Although it is not shown, it is very likely that Bisky indeed has combat nen abilities. She even states that she enjoys to lie and keep secrets to keep people on her toes. She had no reason to reveal any combat abilities to Gon and Killua. Also, a nen master with 40 years of combat experience needs one and we know for a fact that certain high profile nen users and masters have multiple abilities such ass Netero, Zeno and Morel. There is no reason for Bisky to not have an ability that is useable in combat situations.

Overall, Hisoka is a monster and without a doubt very powerful but, there are levels to these things. Bisky's superiority in almost every category worth noting for Nen Users means that she will beat Hisoka. Hisoka for the longest time before being humbled by Chrollo, has fought individuals with very clear flaws in the manner they fight.

1. Gotoh - Became erratic and lost his composure
2. Kastro - Became erratic and lost his composure and decided to focus on a category that isn't his natural category despite not being a master nen user.
3. Killed non combat scrubs from the New Paladin squad.

Hisoka didn't face an equal in single combat until he met Chrollo who used his own arrogance against him and ran circles around him. Bisky , to reiterate is a nen master with 40 years of combat experience, a master of the Shingen Ryu, a Double Star Hunter and a host of other factors going for her. I don't see Hisoka winning here.

@Sentinel @Seth Rollins @BangMi @RayanOO ETC, for any other H x H fans on this site.

 

[Finalbeta]

Impossible to say, Bisky never showed her whole power

Feats wise, Hisoka would win with around mid difficulty, however Bisky is stronger than what she has shown and if Hisoka wins if shall be no less than high difficulty

 

[Chrono]

1. She has 40 Years of Nen and combat experience. Hisoka is a combat genius but, if we take the likes of Morel as an example, having years of experience is a factor that natural talent cannot overcome so easily. Morel with his combat experience was able to stall 2 of the Royal guards who are magnitudes above him in power and destroyed the likes of Cheethu and Leol. We dont know how many years Morel has but Bisky is likely older at 57 and likely has more combat experience.

I mean Killua barely has any experience in comparison to Morel. And he ran circles around the RGs. Did far better than Morel against them.

2. She is physically superior. In the dodgeball game against Razor, she is able to react and dodge a trick ball from Razor that Hisoka who has more time to react could not evade and this was in her smaller form. Additionally, she one shot the enhancer from the bomber's squad Greed Island the moment she got serious with a casual punch. From what we know, she trains alot. One of the Hatsu's she has shown in Cookie Chain (This is likely not her only Hatsu). Is meant to allow you to train at maximum efficiency. Her body thus all her physical stats are likely in tip top form. She likely has the strength advantage over Hisoka by a notable margin even though both of them are Transmuters. Hisoka felt the aura enhanced strikes of a Specialist like Chrollo. The same Chrollo that noted that he couldn't do anything to block Zeno's Gyo with his own Aura. If Chrollo is able to hurt Hisoka, despite having only a 40% efficiency rate in Enhancement, it means that Hisoka's enhancement is likely not up to snuff because a fellow transmuter like Zeno was able force Chrollo into the defensive by a simple show of enhancement superiority. (Bisky's from what he know has trained at least 2 Natural Enhancers in that category.)

Spoiler: Dodgeball Sequence

Well that was due to how Hisoka wanted to dodge. Bisky weirdly jumped outta the way whilst Hisoka just had to tilt his head. Nothing is indicating that he couldnt have dodged like her if he wanted to.

I mean look at the way Chrollo was hurting Hisoka. He was using corpse army to distract him to land clean hits in places hes not defending. Its the perfect strategy to use when you know that you cant harm that person normally.

Look at this in comparison

He can casually monolougue when defending against his hits. And theyre barely doing any damage.

Bisky Wins on the Lower end of High Difficulty . I think she is very underrated. I'll give a few reasons why she trumps Hisoka.

1. She has 40 Years of Nen and combat experience. Hisoka is a combat genius but, if we take the likes of Morel as an example, having years of experience is a factor that natural talent cannot overcome so easily. Morel with his combat experience was able to stall 2 of the Royal guards who are magnitudes above him in power and destroyed the likes of Cheethu and Leol. We dont know how many years Morel has but Bisky is likely older at 57 and likely has more combat experience.

2. She is physically superior. In the dodgeball game against Razor, she is able to react and dodge a trick ball from Razor that Hisoka who has more time to react could not evade and this was in her smaller form. Additionally, she one shot the enhancer from the bomber's squad Greed Island the moment she got serious with a casual punch. From what we know, she trains alot. One of the Hatsu's she has shown in Cookie Chain (This is likely not her only Hatsu). Is meant to allow you to train at maximum efficiency. Her body thus all her physical stats are likely in tip top form. She likely has the strength advantage over Hisoka by a notable margin even though both of them are Transmuters. Hisoka felt the aura enhanced strikes of a Specialist like Chrollo. The same Chrollo that noted that he couldn't do anything to block Zeno's Gyo with his own Aura. If Chrollo is able to hurt Hisoka, despite having only a 40% efficiency rate in Enhancement, it means that Hisoka's enhancement is likely not up to snuff because a fellow transmuter like Zeno was able force Chrollo into the defensive by a simple show of enhancement superiority. (Bisky's from what he know has trained at least 2 Natural Enhancers in that category.)

Spoiler: Dodgeball Sequence

3. She is a Master of Nen. Continuing with what I said before regarding her being superior to Hisoka despite them being both transmuters. She has mastery over all categories that she has access to. Hisoka by canon has only demonstrated Enhancement, Transmuter and a little conjuration. Bisky is is the Master of Gon's First Master in Wing. Wing is a natural enhancer and for someone like Bisky to train an enhancer to a sufficient level, that must mean that her enhancement is elite for a transmuter. She likely is superior in enhancement since she is such a physical fighter. Additionally, it's important to note that her Aura feats are really fucking impressive as well. A show of how efficient one is at Ko, is how fast they can us it and Bisky has managed to engage Ko instantaneously in addition to her use of Ryu being near flawless as well. It is also worth noting that Bisky is a Master in the Shingen Ryu which is the same nen school that Netero founded. She has been at this nen stuff for a very long time.

To further highlight how much of a master she is, all we need to do is look at Cookie Chan. Cookie Chan uses at least Emission (To materialize her), Transmuter (To transform aura into lotion with special properties), Enhancement(to help aid the body's healing process), and Manipulator (To control and give orders to Cookie Chan). Normally, it's not advisable for nen users to combine categories espeically those more than 1 step away from their natural category. Bisky combines 4 different categories. Of those 4, Manipulator is 3 Steps away and Emission is 2 Steps away. Only those who are very skilled in the use of nen with very high aura reserves can actually pull off using inefficient categories for their Hatsu's. Noteable examples are Netero who uses Emission and Manipulation for his 100 Type, Morel, who uses Transmuter to transmute his smoke despite being a Manipulator (40% efficiency.), and Knov who likely has to use Emission together with Conjuration for his Nen Space. (Emission is the worst category for a conjurer at 40%). Bisky is able to create such a seemingly inefficient Hatsu with no visible setbacks or constraints. Since Cookie Chan is a such a simple ability in regards to what it does, there are likely no conditions to its use meaning that Bisky is paying for the entire Hatsu with her Aura reserves with no strain in the slightest. (We know that Emitters have their aura capped the moment they emit and maintain an object).

Moving back to the Wing point, we don't know how good of a combatant wing is but, it is worth noting that Bisky is a Double Star Hunter meaning that one of her former students has gotten a single star. We are not sure how many stars Wing has but it might be him. Wing who was trained in nen by Bisky is now training other Nen Users in the same school in a fighting Arena. This means Wings combat ability and talent are likely above average at the very least. If we go back to the Hisoka vs Kastro fight, Hisoka comments to Kastro that if he stuck to enhancement, since it was his natural category, he would have won their deathmatch because his Tiger Fist ability while simple is also very strong. This is now veering into "head canon" but, I'd like to view someone like Wing who trains students in heavens arena is a competent fighter and would likely pose as a good opponent to Kastro. If Wing is a good opponent for Kastro, he is likely a good opponent for Hisoka because Wing sticks to what he is good at and is casually a wall buster without the input of force through his enhancing Aura. I think that Bisky would still beat Wing simply due to experience and overall combat superiority but if Wing is a good opponent for someone like Hisoka, and Bisky is Wing's Master and still maintains her body and nen, to me she beats Hisoka.

4. She is a quick thinker : Hisoka is not the only witty individual in this fight. Bisky was the person who devised the plot to defeat Genthru during Greed Island. Her years of combat experience means that she is not easily shaken by adverse or unknown situations. In the Manga, she enters into a nen space and is able to devise the possible mechanisms of action for a Hatsu Ability she doesn't fully understand on the spot. We see that Hisoka is usually able to beat his opponents by stunning them through psychological warfare in the battle. For someone with 40 Years of combat experience, she has likely seen it all she is unlikely to lose her wits from whatever plot Hisoka makes. She herself would also subject Hisoka with similar assaults on his psyche. Even though Hisoka's Bungee Gum is quite simple, it is very effective but, with someone of her caliber, it wouldn't take her very long to figure out the limits of Bungee gum.

Togashi notes that Hisoka is only able to stretch Bungee gum 10m through the use of Emission before it breaks. It is worth noting that the ability to extend one's aura far away from the body is a function of the strength of one's mastery in Emission and the Strength of one's Ten. Bisky has displays of Emission that exceeds 10m and states that someone with a functional grasp on Emission should be able to extend their aura for longer distances and would be able to keep that aura from dissipating for days on end. This simple limit of Hisoka's Emission further highlights the point her superiority in nen overall. She would likely be able to devise this limitation the moment she engages Hisoka much like Zeno was able to devise exactly how Skill Hunter Works the moment Chrollo pulled out Bandit's Secret.

5. Lastly I want to address the elephant in the room which is that Bisky seemingly has no combat nen abilities. Although it is not shown, it is very likely that Bisky indeed has combat nen abilities. She even states that she enjoys to lie and keep secrets to keep people on her toes. She had no reason to reveal any combat abilities to Gon and Killua. Also, a nen master with 40 years of combat experience needs one and we know for a fact that certain high profile nen users and masters have multiple abilities such ass Netero, Zeno and Morel. There is no reason for Bisky to not have an ability that is useable in combat situations.

Overall, Hisoka is a monster and without a doubt very powerful but, there are levels to these things. Bisky's superiority in almost every category worth noting for Nen Users means that she will beat Hisoka. Hisoka for the longest time before being humbled by Chrollo, has fought individuals with very clear flaws in the manner they fight.

1. Gotoh - Became erratic and lost his composure
2. Kastro - Became erratic and lost his composure and decided to focus on a category that isn't his natural category despite not being a master nen user.
3. Killed non combat scrubs from the New Paladin squad.

Hisoka didn't face an equal in single combat until he met Chrollo who used his own arrogance against him and ran circles around him. Bisky , to reiterate is a nen master with 40 years of combat experience, a master of the Shingen Ryu, a Double Star Hunter and a host of other factors going for her. I don't see Hisoka winning here.

@Sentinel @Seth Rollins @BangMi @RayanOO ETC, for any other H x H fans on this site.

I agree in terms of Nen she is far superior. But Hisoka makes up for it in the superior Hatsu. Until Cookie chan shows some combat prowess we cant give her any imaginary feats.


(( Enough with the Shingen Ryu))

 

[RayanOO]

I mean Killua barely has any experience in comparison to Morel. And he ran circles around the RGs. Did far better than Morel against them.

Morel against Youpi didn't have his pipe (stole by Pouf) and had others fights under his belt before. He even said that he was not at his best even before the raid because he used his powers during days before the raid. He said he was at 40% at the raid if I remember well.
So Morel only used low level puppets against Youpi, and was exhausted.

I don't said Morel could have won but he could have managed quite better in full health and gear.

I think Morel was still stronger than Killua during the raid at full power each.

About the thread :

I agree that Bisky can be underestimated and she is a monster.

In Nen mastery she is really high and in a lot of Nen areas. Bisky Gyo is really good it will be hard to surprise her with bungee gum.

Fighting wise her muscular form is uber powerful in CQC.

She is quite smart herself and has cold head during fights.

But yeah her hatsu is not really fighting oriented (from what we know). But she still may surprise us.

In an other thread (if Hisoka is 100) I gave Bisky 90, maybe it was a bit low. I think she can push Hisoka quite high.

For now I wil give it to Hisoka but he will sweat really hard to beat the loli.

 

[Chrono]

Morel against Youpi didn't have his pipe (stole by Pouf) and had others fights under his belt before. He even said that he was not at his best even before the raid because he used his powers during days before the raid. He said he was at 40% at the raid if I remember well.
So Morel only used low level puppets against Youpi, and was exhausted.

I don't said Morel could have won but he could have managed quite better in full health and gear.

I think Morel was still stronger than Killua during the raid at full power each.

About the thread :

I agree that Bisky can be underestimated and she is a monster.

In Nen mastery she is really high and in a lot of Nen areas. Bisky Gyo is really good it will be hard to surprise her with bungee gum.

Fighting wise her muscular form is uber powerful in CQC.

She is quite smart herself and has cold head during fights.

But yeah her hatsu is not really fighting oriented (from what we know). But she still may surprise us.

In an other thread (if Hisoka is 100) I gave Bisky 90, maybe it was a bit low. I think she can push Hisoka quite high.

For now I wil give it to Hisoka but he will sweat really hard to beat the loli.

I mean isnt only against Youpi. Killua was confirmed faster than full power Pouf. And moved faster than Post Mortem Pitou. With his nen genius, he was able to match the RGs to a standstill and kinda look better than them.

Lets be real, Godspeed Killua would end Morel pretty easily. Morel has years of experience, but if he took a punch from child Gon full power Janken....hed die. Now Killua has the means to land hits on Morel due to Godspeed. Whilst lacking Gon's AP.....he makes up for it with his assassin lethality and electricity. This wouldnt be a secnario like Cheetu vs Morel, as Cheetu's punches were weak af. Killua would literally maul Morel.....and Morel has many many years of more experience on him.


Plus didnt Morel get as much smoke he needed for clones out. The pipe at this point would only be useful in CQC. And Youpi would demolish him in CQC.

 

[RayanOO]

Plus didnt Morel get as much smoke he needed for clones out. The pipe at this point would only be useful in CQC. And Youpi would demolish him in CQC.

During the Youpi fight he only had weak puppets and couldn't create new ones without his pipe or create anything else.
He only managed to transform the weak puppets into Knuckle clones to disturb Youpi and to create an opening for Knuckle.

And here Morel was below 30% of his level. Because he started at 35% at the begining of the raid.

I mean isnt only against Youpi. Killua was confirmed faster than full power Pouf. And moved faster than Post Mortem Pitou. With his nen genius, he was able to match the RGs to a standstill and kinda look better than them.

Lets be real, Godspeed Killua would end Morel pretty easily. Morel has years of experience, but if he took a punch from child Gon full power Janken....hed die. Now Killua has the means to land hits on Morel due to Godspeed. Whilst lacking Gon's AP.....he makes up for it with his assassin lethality and electricity. This wouldnt be a secnario like Cheetu vs Morel, as Cheetu's punches were weak af. Killua would literally maul Morel.....and Morel has many many years of more experience on him.

For Killua vs Morel I still bet on Morel during the raid because Morel doesn't really fight in CQC and Killua God speed has a time limit.

Morel can use numerous good puppets (with nen inside) to test Killua's powers, tire him etc. His experience and brain will help him here.

But I agree that in CQC Morel will be beaten.

 

[Rosella.Fiamingo]

@RayanOO @Chrono

She does not need a combat oriented Hatsu. Just off her mastery of the basics and her experience and with how much better she is at enhancement, she can hurt Hisoka with just physical power. For example, Uvo would not need Big Bang to demolish HIsoka if he was fast enough to tag him. It's odd to assume that a nen master with 40 years of combat experience doesn't have a combat hatsu. A combat hatsu is the literally the first thing new nen users come up with once they get the hang of nen. Cookie Chan is not an ability that looks like a primary ability in any shape or form. Bisky started nen at the age of 17 and at that age, priorities for new nen users is usually to become stronger thus, I believe it's an ability developed later. There is no reason to assume that a Double Star Hunter who trains other Hunters in combat. And helps those people develop Combat abilities does not have a combat Hatsu.

Hisoka is simply outmatched here in all facets. Even if we say no Bisky isn't allowed to be assumed to possess combat Hatsu's, Hisoka is below her in every other category and his combat Hatsu in Bungee gum is not something overpowered or impossible to figure out or even Hax. She deduced abilities far more complex on the spot. Any competent and smart nen user can deduce the limits of Bungee Gum on the spot.

1. She is physically Superior
2. She is Superior in Nen
3. She is Superior in Combat Experince
4. She is Superior or equal in wits
5. Bungee Gum is not complex and she can deduce the limits of the ability
6. She has her adult form as one of her aces whenever things get difficult.
7. impractical to assume that a Nen Master who trains other Nen users for Combat does not have a Combat Ability.

 

[Seth]

I don't know what to say because I feel like Bisky was supposed to be super OP but Togashi stopped this before he showed her max potential. On the other hand, it still looks like she is superior in every combat category related stats.

I would love to wait for the conclusion of Hisoka's hunt for the Spiders but HAHA XD that was funny right?

I don't actually know where Hisoka's capabilities end. I don't like bringing Chrollo's fight because it was too detailed. They didn't go at each other with 0 preparations and knowledge. Chrollo is like Metal Knight from OPM tbh. He is not that intimidating at first but when he's prepared then wow.

I'd say Hisoka extreme diffs loli Bisky and Bisky extreme diffs Hisoka in her full form.

I know it may take years or actually never happened but I think the power scaling landscape in HxH post-Dark Continent will be next level shit.

It's going to be a very wtf for you but I will make this wild pick and say that It wouldn't surprise me if Hisoka might potentially be one of the 5 nen users Netero talked about.

( I still believe Netero's top 5 wasn't only about the power of said users nen :/ )

Creativity it's still a power itself

 

[Just a member]

Biscuit is strong compared to Gon and Killua for sure is a great teacher but she in the end is not up there with the likes of Hisoka, Chrollo etc.

Hisoka didn't show any sign of interest towards her powerwise, not even once. That means he was not interested so she can not give him a beautiful fight. It could be he didn't perceive her real form but to be honest I doubt that.

Then if we look at Hisoka vs Chrollo they are both masterminds one in understanding the gamebthe other is doing and the latter in actually doin such a complicated game. I don't think Biscuit would be able to keep up with these 2 and she also lacks the power and means to defend and attack properly (her hatsu is good for recovering after tough trainings, she is a teacher/ interested in her well shape now, we don't know if she has something for tough fights and what is it).

 

[Rosella.Fiamingo]

Biscuit is strong compared to Gon and Killua for sure is a great teacher but she in the end is not up there with the likes of Hisoka, Chrollo etc.

Hisoka didn't show any sign of interest towards her powerwise, not even once. That means he was not interested so she can not give him a beautiful fight. It could be he didn't perceive her real form but to be honest I doubt that.

Then if we look at Hisoka vs Chrollo they are both masterminds one in understanding the gamebthe other is doing and the latter in actually doin such a complicated game. I don't think Biscuit would be able to keep up with these 2 and she also lacks the power and means to defend and attack properly (her hatsu is good for recovering after tough trainings, she is a teacher/ interested in her well shape now, we don't know if she has something for tough fights and what is it).

So basically ignoring all her feats because Hisoka didn't want to fight her even though it is explicitly stated she hides how strong she is?

 

[Just a member]

So basically ignoring all her feats because Hisoka didn't want to fight her even though it is explicitly stated she hides how strong she is?

She may hide how strong she really is even if we even have Hisoka checking all the people voting in the chairman election arc after he did it himself and he was bale to check the zodiacs power level along with Illumi (and wasn't even really paying attention, he was surprised to sense a 95 then he looked at the guy and it was Illumi) and that is a good feat for sensing power levesl since nobody goes there pouring everything out, also he was able to sense the differences pretty well, 85, 90, 67 etc. and it is to note that Biscuit was among the crew but she didn't get any reaction at all like in Greed island, is Biscuit ability to hide her power better than Hisoka ability to sense it?

But anyway what is her real power in her buffed form? Can she stay up there with the likes of Chrollo, Hisoka or even Netero and all the others Hisoka was exicted to fight with? Imo she is strong but on one hand she is not the fighting type (at least not anymore and until proven otherwise) since her hatsu is focused on training and/or her well being (like she mentioned when she presented her ability to Gon and Killua first in Greed island and then in the Chimera ant arc) and this on one hand tells us her focus is not fighting (until proven otherwise) and on the other that in a real fight she lacks a proper hatsu to deal with guys like Hisoka or Chrollo (until proven otherwise). If we put her vs Hisoka or Chrollo and they start to use Bungee gum / the book and sun and moon what can she use to counter it?

Imo she can be strong as a normal spider (Nobunaga, Feitan etc.) but that is below the likes of Chrollo and Hisoka (Hisoka wasn't triggered by any spider but only by Chrollo) and that of course doesn't mean at all that she is weak, it just means she is not strong enough to dance with monster like Hisoka or Chrollo, like a normal spider. Or maybe a Zodiac at best, Hisoka check showed that the one with the highest rating was a 90, it was not enough to thrill Hisoka but that probably means anyway he has 90% the power of Hisoka and that is not a bad feat at all (at the end of the check, before sensing Illumi, he said even the pro hunters are nothing exceptional and that maybe his next target should be the Zodiacs aka the guys with 90 and 85 rating even if Biscuit just passed under his nose so imo at best she can aim for those 85,90 ratings).

Also Hisoka and Chrollo have shown to be masterminds in their fight (analyze all the moves of the enemy and counter moves to oppose them in real time in the middle of a fight vs a mortal enemy like they did) and we honestly don't know if Biscuit would be able to do the same, most likely not since that is a very good feat even for the HxH verse (I suppose only guys like Meruem, Netero, Gin and few others, probably even Illumi, Zeno and few others would be able to replicate that feat).

And there is also the fact that Hisoka is thrilled by guys like Gon and Killua because they have a monstrous potential, potential to become ripe fruits for Hisoka to take aka mortal fights like vs Chrollo, or the ones he wanted with Netero, Gin.. so he recognizes guys like Gon and Killua can grow up to become monsters like Gin, Netero, Chrollo and so even become monsters like Hisoka (Hisoka was prized by Chrollo to be the only one able so far to bring him to that level and also in his origin story Hisoka is praised by the villain when he looking at Hisoka remember his hunter exam when he was overwhelmed by a "mysterious hunter" - Gin) then we also know that Biscuit commented on Killua and Gon proficiency and even if now I don't recall the exact chapter and/or panel she said something like "Killua/Gon achieved this level of "somethign" at this young age while I was able to do so only when I was 17/21" aka Togashi remarked again the incredible potential Gon and Killua have by making Biscuit praise it admitting they have a greater potential than herself. So Biscuit, despite all her efforts and a life of training has a weaker potetnial compared to the strongest humans we have seen so far, imo she is at least a step below the likes og Hisoka, Chrollo etc.

 

[FloriGlori]

Bisky's only shot at victory is confusing Hisoka's sexual feelings with her masculine body.

 

[Rosella.Fiamingo]

She may hide how strong she really is even if we even have Hisoka checking all the people voting in the chairman election arc after he did it himself and he was bale to check the zodiacs power level along with Illumi (and wasn't even really paying attention, he was surprised to sense a 95 then he looked at the guy and it was Illumi) and that is a good feat for sensing power levesl since nobody goes there pouring everything out, also he was able to sense the differences pretty well, 85, 90, 67 etc. and it is to note that Biscuit was among the crew but she didn't get any reaction at all like in Greed island, is Biscuit ability to hide her power better than Hisoka ability to sense it?

But anyway what is her real power in her buffed form? Can she stay up there with the likes of Chrollo, Hisoka or even Netero and all the others Hisoka was exicted to fight with? Imo she is strong but on one hand she is not the fighting type (at least not anymore and until proven otherwise) since her hatsu is focused on training and/or her well being (like she mentioned when she presented her ability to Gon and Killua first in Greed island and then in the Chimera ant arc) and this on one hand tells us her focus is not fighting (until proven otherwise) and on the other that in a real fight she lacks a proper hatsu to deal with guys like Hisoka or Chrollo (until proven otherwise). If we put her vs Hisoka or Chrollo and they start to use Bungee gum / the book and sun and moon what can she use to counter it?

Imo she can be strong as a normal spider (Nobunaga, Feitan etc.) but that is below the likes of Chrollo and Hisoka (Hisoka wasn't triggered by any spider but only by Chrollo) and that of course doesn't mean at all that she is weak, it just means she is not strong enough to dance with monster like Hisoka or Chrollo, like a normal spider. Or maybe a Zodiac at best, Hisoka check showed that the one with the highest rating was a 90, it was not enough to thrill Hisoka but that probably means anyway he has 90% the power of Hisoka and that is not a bad feat at all (at the end of the check, before sensing Illumi, he said even the pro hunters are nothing exceptional and that maybe his next target should be the Zodiacs aka the guys with 90 and 85 rating even if Biscuit just passed under his nose so imo at best she can aim for those 85,90 ratings).

Also Hisoka and Chrollo have shown to be masterminds in their fight (analyze all the moves of the enemy and counter moves to oppose them in real time in the middle of a fight vs a mortal enemy like they did) and we honestly don't know if Biscuit would be able to do the same, most likely not since that is a very good feat even for the HxH verse (I suppose only guys like Meruem, Netero, Gin and few others, probably even Illumi, Zeno and few others would be able to replicate that feat).

And there is also the fact that Hisoka is thrilled by guys like Gon and Killua because they have a monstrous potential, potential to become ripe fruits for Hisoka to take aka mortal fights like vs Chrollo, or the ones he wanted with Netero, Gin.. so he recognizes guys like Gon and Killua can grow up to become monsters like Gin, Netero, Chrollo and so even become monsters like Hisoka (Hisoka was prized by Chrollo to be the only one able so far to bring him to that level and also in his origin story Hisoka is praised by the villain when he looking at Hisoka remember his hunter exam when he was overwhelmed by a "mysterious hunter" - Gin) then we also know that Biscuit commented on Killua and Gon proficiency and even if now I don't recall the exact chapter and/or panel she said something like "Killua/Gon achieved this level of "somethign" at this young age while I was able to do so only when I was 17/21" aka Togashi remarked again the incredible potential Gon and Killua have by making Biscuit praise it admitting they have a greater potential than herself. So Biscuit, despite all her efforts and a life of training has a weaker potetnial compared to the strongest humans we have seen so far, imo she is at least a step below the likes og Hisoka, Chrollo etc.

You're making a lot of assumptions as if Combat Experince does not matter in H x H. She has 40 years of it and she outclasses Hisoka in quite literally everything that is important between nen users in a fight.

Lol, yes Bisky's ability to hide her power is better than Hisoka's ability to gauge it. You're taking Hisokas criteria for who he wants to fight as some sort of bible of strength. The same Hisoka thought he could kill Netero. Binolt, whose entire Hatsu is about finding out the intricate information regarding people shat his pants and gave up the moment he ate a piece of Bisky's hair. In her little form, he thought he was a match for her. Thats how well she can hide how strong she is.

Lol, I'm going to assume that you haven't read H x H in much detail if you're asking about how strong Bisky is in her buffed up form. Even in her suppressed form, she outclasses Hisoka in speed, agility and reaction time as made evident when she was able to dodge a point blank trick ball from Razor that came at her first before it even came for Hisoka. Hisoka failed to react in time and got caught in the face from the ball. Bisky on the other hand evaded the attack quite easily. And don't be ludicrous to compare Bisky who is a physical specimen and monster to the likes of Chrollo and Hisoka. At least Hisoka is close to enhancement. Chrollo backed down the moment he saw Gyo from Zeno because as a specialist he can't defend against it properly. And for her real power in her buffed form, she quite literally one shot Bara with a casual hit the moment she showed her form to him.

And what are you even deeming a "normal spider" you're coming in here with so many assumptions about powers in a nen fight which is the last thing you should do. Bisky is a Double Star Hunter who trains nen users for combat. To be a double star hunter, you must have a student who has acquired a single star. That Student is likely Wing who was Gon's Trainer and also an enhancer. Bisky, is also a Master in the Shingen Ryu which is the martial art founded by Netero. Bisky has superior physical feats compared to Hisoka, greater nen mastery and far greater nen and combat experience. And you keep using Hisoka's critera when it has been made clear that making blanket assumptions are the last thing you do for nen battles. And to claim "Zodiac" at best as if being Zodiac level is below Hisoka is actually a fucking joke. The Zodiacs were Netero's handpicked sparing partners that includes the likes of multi starred hunters and Ging Fucking Freecs. I'm going to validly assume that Netero in his 120+ years of life is a far better judge of strength than Hisoka who only follows his instincts.

And it's unreasonable to assume she doesn't have a combat oriented Hatsu when she trains nen users for combat. And she had no reason to show a combat Hatsu to gon or Killua. She quite literally said that she enjoys hiding things about herself from people so she can catch them offguard. Why show a combat ability when she had no need to show it. And again, let us reiterate a point here. She has 40 years of nen and combat experience and is a master in Netero's marital art school which teaches people nen. And Cookie Chan is almost guarantee to not be her only ability. In fact, I would stake that it's likely one of her "newer abilities" because of the rigor required to make such a hatsu.

Cookie Chan requires the use of Emission to emit her and keep its form which is 2 Steps away from transmuter, requires the use of enhancement for the healing properties which is 1 step away, requires transmuter to transmute the lotion, and lastly requires the use of manipulation to control which is the opposite of transmuter. Such a complex Hatsu is not a Hatsu that a novice would make without crippling themselves. Look at what it takes for Kurapika to make judgement chain. This means she made this Hatsu when she already had enough experience with nen and the various categories. And, the first Hatsu that most Hunters we've seen go through learning nen are combat Hatsus. Getting stronger is usually the first priority for nen users the moment they learn about nen so, almost all of them create combat abilites. This means that 40 years ago when Bisky just entered the Shingen Ryu and started learning nen, the first ability she created likely has combat use.

And you're assuming that she needs a combat Hatsu to fight when she is so proficient in Enhancement. Her proficiency in enhancement far outclasses Hisoka as made evident by her training Enhancers in Enhancement (Gon and Wing and likely others) and, the fact that Hisoka was feeling the brunt of Chrollo's enhanced strikese despite Chrollo being only 40% in enhancement. When you have a good grasp of enhancement, you don't need fancy abilities to fight. Uvogin is able to kill people without ever needing to resort his Hatsu. Kurapika's master who has 80% in enhancement like Bisky is able to split a tree in half with a casual toss of an acorn through enhancement.

And lol, at her not being able to come up with plans. She was the one who came up with the plan to kill Genthru. I don't know if you're caught up with the Manga, she quite literally breaks down an unknown spatial nen ability the moment the experiences it. She has 40 Years of combat and nen experince. You do not become a double start hunter and a Master in the Shingen Ryu and last 40 years as a Nen user by not being smart or competent. Again, your entire argument is full of unfounded assumptions which I will assume is due to lack of proper knowledge on the subject you're talking about.

Again, she hides her power and has no need to reveal it. It's stupid as a nen user to show that you're strong around other nen users. Hisoka remarks about the talent of Gon and Killua because everyone who fucking looks at them can tell they have massive potential. And why are you using the potentials of Gon and Killua to prop up Hisoka? Who cares what the potential is and when she learned to do something if shes far more efficient and experienced in doing it? And I want to state that you do know that the likes of Netero likely had nowhere near the potential of Gon and Killua right? Having massive potential means very little in a nen fight if you lack experince. Morel who was outclassed in potential and aura by the Chimera ants ran circles around them through sheer wits and combat experince. He even emphasizes how important having a lot of combat experience is for nen battles.

And you are massively overestimating how strong Hisoka is to the point where it's rather hilarious. I want to remind you that Hisoka himself proclaimed that had Kastro actually focused on his enhancement, and kept his cool, he would have killed Hisoka in their death match. Until Chrollo, Hisoka has fought only flawed nen users with massive deficiencies in their overall make up as nen users. The moment he fought someone who isn't intimidated by him in Chrollo, he got his shit stomped in. You also overvalue Hatsu abilites especially the likes of Hisoka's which is oh so very simple. Any competent nen user (Hisoka hasn't fought one until Chrollo) would have deconstructed Bungee gum and found a very clear and fatal flaw (It can only stretch 10 meters thorugh the use of emission) just like how the moment Chrollo pulled out Bandits Secret that Zeno immediately analyzed and broke down his far more complex ability.

 

[Just a member]

You're making a lot of assumptions as if Combat Experince does not matter in H x H. She has 40 years of it and she outclasses Hisoka in quite literally everything that is important between nen users in a fight.

Combat experience matters but it is not the only thing that matters. Pretty bold to say she outclasses Hisoka everything but let's see.

Lol, yes Bisky's ability to hide her power is better than Hisoka's ability to gauge it. You're taking Hisokas criteria for who he wants to fight as some sort of bible of strength. The same Hisoka thought he could kill Netero. Binolt, whose entire Hatsu is about finding out the intricate information regarding people shat his pants and gave up the moment he ate a piece of Bisky's hair. In her little form, he thought he was a match for her. Thats how well she can hide how strong she is.

Based on what Biscuit ability to hide her power is better than Hisoka's ability to sense it? At least Hisoka could sense without even paying attention the power level of Illumi in his disguised form. Also he was able to sense Kalluto despite she was using zetsu in Gredd island arc (even if he admitted his sense were on the verge cause the dodgeball match he just had, yet Nobunage remarked he is a monster none the less). Well, Hisoka criteria for power is good, he can even sense the pwoerlevels quite in details, sense the potential of Killua and Gon and everybody he is thrilled to fight is a monster (Netero, Chrollo, Gin) imo the fact of him dying or not is just a collateral, the point is to have a good fight. Most likely he would have been crazy with joy if he could fight (and be destroyed) by post rose Meruem. Afterall Hisoka has a personality a bit twisted. Binolt shat his pants when he realized how strong Biscuit was but Binolt was fodder none the less, Gredd island Gon and Killua bested him in the span of a few days/a week to the point they were able to do it alone. He later was even killed by the Gentsuru group which in the end was not a big deal (Gredd island Killua used his rival as a test for his abilities, a low/mid diff at best). Also Binolt ability is to understand other people infos, everything he can, but in order to do that he needs to take a piece of them aka Biscuit's hair and that is precisely what he get when he ate her hair. What is your point?

Lol, I'm going to assume that you haven't read H x H in much detail if you're asking about how strong Bisky is in her buffed up form. Even in her suppressed form, she outclasses Hisoka in speed, agility and reaction time as made evident when she was able to dodge a point blank trick ball from Razor that came at her first before it even came for Hisoka. Hisoka failed to react in time and got caught in the face from the ball. Bisky on the other hand evaded the attack quite easily. And don't be ludicrous to compare Bisky who is a physical specimen and monster to the likes of Chrollo and Hisoka. At least Hisoka is close to enhancement. Chrollo backed down the moment he saw Gyo from Zeno because as a specialist he can't defend against it properly. And for her real power in her buffed form, she quite literally one shot Bara with a casual hit the moment she showed her form to him.

Well, to be honest Biscuit dodged a ball she saw coming for her (there was for sure more distance and so time compared to Hisoka situation) and despite that the ball still hit her dress, Hisoka had to dodge from the moment Biscuit dodged it and, in reality, Hisoka dodged the ball too it was just that the nen pal of Razor was just behind him and throw back the ball when Hisoka was still unbalanced from his previous dodge. And despite that he still took the ball with his hand. If anything this is a testament of Hisoka skills and reaction time.
Also it is ludicrous to claim she outclassed Hisoka in her weak form when that form wasn't enough to deal with Bara (she has to use her strong form to win, the weak one was not enough) and also she trained Chimera ant arc Killua before his match with Shoot with her strong form aka the weak was not enough to train Chimera ant arc Killua. And Hisoka would eat both for breakfast, for sure Bara at the very least. And be able to one shot Bara in her strong form is not that much of a feat when you consider the other pal of Gentsuru was dealth with quite easily by Greed isalnd Killua (a low/mid diff fight at best for Killua, he used that fight to test new tricks).

And what are you even deeming a "normal spider" you're coming in here with so many assumptions about powers in a nen fight which is the last thing you should do. Bisky is a Double Star Hunter who trains nen users for combat. To be a double star hunter, you must have a student who has acquired a single star. That Student is likely Wing who was Gon's Trainer and also an enhancer. Bisky, is also a Master in the Shingen Ryu which is the martial art founded by Netero. Bisky has superior physical feats compared to Hisoka, greater nen mastery and far greater nen and combat experience. And you keep using Hisoka's critera when it has been made clear that making blanket assumptions are the last thing you do for nen battles. And to claim "Zodiac" at best as if being Zodiac level is below Hisoka is actually a fucking joke. The Zodiacs were Netero's handpicked sparing partners that includes the likes of multi starred hunters and Ging Fucking Freecs. I'm going to validly assume that Netero in his 120+ years of life is a far better judge of strength than Hisoka who only follows his instincts.

I think it is common sense to say that Chrollo is stronger than the other spiders, or it isn't for you? Be a double star hunter is not a testament of how strong you are. Teradin was too a 2 star hunter yet he and his new version of the seiren group were decimated by a certain someone, we have also 1 star hunter like Tsez who are weaker than Gredd island Gon and Killua and Bushidora who was offpanled by the certain someone I mentioned before. Then sure there are 2 star hunters like Gin but there are also 2 star hunter like Teradin who was killed by somebody too. This to say that be a single/double hunter is not a testament of your strength, not at all. Zodiac level is not bad, actually they are among the strongest humans it is simply that guys like Chrollo, Hisoka, Netero, Gin etc. are above that. And what is your claim for Netero having the Zoadiacs as sparring partners? Do you think he even put in a fraction of what he did vs Meruem? The best way to dodge the Zodiac fighting capability as of now is Hisoka judgment. Also Gin is a zoadiac too but of course you can not say that since he is a zodiac then all the others are at the same level than Gin, I even mentioned before Hisoka went to vote just to see if he could find Gin, which of course Hisoka too considered a part from the other zodiacs 8and also he along with Pariston is not a Zodiac anymore). Or do you think all the zodiac can be compared to Gin powerwise?

And it's unreasonable to assume she doesn't have a combat oriented Hatsu when she trains nen users for combat. And she had no reason to show a combat Hatsu to gon or Killua. She quite literally said that she enjoys hiding things about herself from people so she can catch them offguard. Why show a combat ability when she had no need to show it. And again, let us reiterate a point here. She has 40 years of nen and combat experience and is a master in Netero's marital art school which teaches people nen. And Cookie Chan is almost guarantee to not be her only ability. In fact, I would stake that it's likely one of her "newer abilities" because of the rigor required to make such a hatsu.

Yet we didn't see one so far, so we have to assume she has not it. And this is a huge weakness that would cost her the victory alone most likely. Maybe to do properly this fight we need to wait until Togashi shows her combat hatsu but I think that until that day we have to suppose she has none (or do you want ot invent one for her to use vs Hisoka?).

Cookie Chan requires the use of Emission to emit her and keep its form which is 2 Steps away from transmuter, requires the use of enhancement for the healing properties which is 1 step away, requires transmuter to transmute the lotion, and lastly requires the use of manipulation to control which is the opposite of transmuter. Such a complex Hatsu is not a Hatsu that a novice would make without crippling themselves. Look at what it takes for Kurapika to make judgement chain. This means she made this Hatsu when she already had enough experience with nen and the various categories. And, the first Hatsu that most Hunters we've seen go through learning nen are combat Hatsus. Getting stronger is usually the first priority for nen users the moment they learn about nen so, almost all of them create combat abilites. This means that 40 years ago when Bisky just entered the Shingen Ryu and started learning nen, the first ability she created likely has combat use.

Nice assumptions, for real I think you are most likely right. Yet again we have no trace of her combat hatsu so it is better to wait for Togashi to show it. Until that point we have to assume there is none.

And you're assuming that she needs a combat Hatsu to fight when she is so proficient in Enhancement. Her proficiency in enhancement far outclasses Hisoka as made evident by her training Enhancers in Enhancement (Gon and Wing and likely others) and, the fact that Hisoka was feeling the brunt of Chrollo's enhanced strikese despite Chrollo being only 40% in enhancement. When you have a good grasp of enhancement, you don't need fancy abilities to fight. Uvogin is able to kill people without ever needing to resort his Hatsu. Kurapika's master who has 80% in enhancement like Bisky is able to split a tree in half with a casual toss of an acorn through enhancement.

And Chrollo can make mince meat of people throwing enhanced cards but that is for fodder, he becomes serious (at least quite serious) the moment he starts to use bungee gum.

And lol, at her not being able to come up with plans. She was the one who came up with the plan to kill Genthru. I don't know if you're caught up with the Manga, she quite literally breaks down an unknown spatial nen ability the moment the experiences it. She has 40 Years of combat and nen experince. You do not become a double start hunter and a Master in the Shingen Ryu and last 40 years as a Nen user by not being smart or competent. Again, your entire argument is full of unfounded assumptions which I will assume is due to lack of proper knowledge on the subject you're talking about.

You don't get my point. Hisoka had to come up with plans and decisions in the mid of a fight the moment Chrollo did a new trick and those were life or death decision. Biscuit come up with the plan to fight Gentsuru and friends (who in the end were almost fodder) yet she had weeks to plan it. You keep saying my arguments are full of assumptions and lack of knowledge but you are the one who keeps mentioning 40 years of expreicne in fighting like that is enough to put her above Hisoka, she is a double start hunter when fighting wise it means nothing since we have 1 and 2 start hunters who are weak and very weak and lastly she has not even showed any combat hatsu yet you assume she has to have one in order to not make this whole argument pointless... I try to be nice but you are asking for it, sorry.

Again, she hides her power and has no need to reveal it. It's stupid as a nen user to show that you're strong around other nen users. Hisoka remarks about the talent of Gon and Killua because everyone who fucking looks at them can tell they have massive potential. And why are you using the potentials of Gon and Killua to prop up Hisoka? Who cares what the potential is and when she learned to do something if shes far more efficient and experienced in doing it? And I want to state that you do know that the likes of Netero likely had nowhere near the potential of Gon and Killua right? Having massive potential means very little in a nen fight if you lack experince. Morel who was outclassed in potential and aura by the Chimera ants ran circles around them through sheer wits and combat experince. He even emphasizes how important having a lot of combat experience is for nen battles.

The potential is important. Biscuit most likely already fullfilled her potential, sure she can become stronger but no so much. Then we have extraoridnary guys like Gon, Killua, Ging, Hisoka, Chrollo etc. who have an higher potential than her simply because they are more gifted. Experience is important but you just assume that since she has 40 years of combat experience then she is more experienced than Hisoka. I could assume 8since you keep saying that I love assumptions) that even if Hisoka has not 40 years if combat exprience he most likely fought stronger enemies (since he actively looks for them) and so faced way nore life or death/situations so maybe even if he has a shorter experience his weights more. Morel is an ecprienced hunter but a support hunter, not a fighter, he survived cause he come up with tricks each time and those tricks are for sure from his experience as an hunter but he himself was only able to stall them. Also again with the potential at first a cocky Morel wanted Gon to show him his power, despite all his experience Gon made him shat his pants simply because Gon potential is monstrous and no matter the experience Morel can never reach the power that Gon was about to hit him with, experience or not. There are some things experience can not help you with, just look at the Chimera ants: they were just few weeks/months old at best yet they shat on everybody cause their potential and power was off the chart. Not to count how guys like Meruem were able to beat master in all sort of games simple because he was a genius without par from the moment he was born.

And you are massively overestimating how strong Hisoka is to the point where it's rather hilarious. I want to remind you that Hisoka himself proclaimed that had Kastro actually focused on his enhancement, and kept his cool, he would have killed Hisoka in their death match. Until Chrollo, Hisoka has fought only flawed nen users with massive deficiencies in their overall make up as nen users. The moment he fought someone who isn't intimidated by him in Chrollo, he got his shit stomped in. You also overvalue Hatsu abilites especially the likes of Hisoka's which is oh so very simple. Any competent nen user (Hisoka hasn't fought one until Chrollo) would have deconstructed Bungee gum and found a very clear and fatal flaw (It can only stretch 10 meters thorugh the use of emission) just like how the moment Chrollo pulled out Bandits Secret that Zeno immediately analyzed and broke down his far more complex ability.

Hisoka toyed with Kastro, he hoped for him to have imrpoved to ebcome an interesting fight and that was why he left him alive the first time but he was mistaken and the 2nd time he just killed him. Hisoka played the fool the whole fight, do we even have to argbur about this? So do you think Chrollo won just because he was not intimidated by Hisoka or maybe because Chrollo is another fighting genius that unlike Hisoka who was cocky prepared carefully for the match? Just to say. And anyway it is not that you find a Chrollo in every corner of HxH world, everybody (be it Gin, Netero or every other human) would be at the very least hard pressed vs Chrollo and Chrollo himself praised Hisoka for how far he brought him with his abilities. Hisoka ability is simple but lethal, like seen in many fights using a material that has both the properties of rubber and gum has infinite uses in a fight. But for sure Biscuit's hatsu is better, doesn't it?

 

[Rosella.Fiamingo]

Combat experience matters but it is not the only thing that matters. Pretty bold to say she outclasses Hisoka everything but let's see.


Based on what Biscuit ability to hide her power is better than Hisoka's ability to sense it? At least Hisoka could sense without even paying attention the power level of Illumi in his disguised form. Also he was able to sense Kalluto despite she was using zetsu in Gredd island arc (even if he admitted his sense were on the verge cause the dodgeball match he just had, yet Nobunage remarked he is a monster none the less). Well, Hisoka criteria for power is good, he can even sense the pwoerlevels quite in details, sense the potential of Killua and Gon and everybody he is thrilled to fight is a monster (Netero, Chrollo, Gin) imo the fact of him dying or not is just a collateral, the point is to have a good fight. Most likely he would have been crazy with joy if he could fight (and be destroyed) by post rose Meruem. Afterall Hisoka has a personality a bit twisted. Binolt shat his pants when he realized how strong Biscuit was but Binolt was fodder none the less, Gredd island Gon and Killua bested him in the span of a few days/a week to the point they were able to do it alone. He later was even killed by the Gentsuru group which in the end was not a big deal (Gredd island Killua used his rival as a test for his abilities, a low/mid diff at best). Also Binolt ability is to understand other people infos, everything he can, but in order to do that he needs to take a piece of them aka Biscuit's hair and that is precisely what he get when he ate her hair. What is your point?


Well, to be honest Biscuit dodged a ball she saw coming for her (there was for sure more distance and so time compared to Hisoka situation) and despite that the ball still hit her dress, Hisoka had to dodge from the moment Biscuit dodged it and, in reality, Hisoka dodged the ball too it was just that the nen pal of Razor was just behind him and throw back the ball when Hisoka was still unbalanced from his previous dodge. And despite that he still took the ball with his hand. If anything this is a testament of Hisoka skills and reaction time.
Also it is ludicrous to claim she outclassed Hisoka in her weak form when that form wasn't enough to deal with Bara (she has to use her strong form to win, the weak one was not enough) and also she trained Chimera ant arc Killua before his match with Shoot with her strong form aka the weak was not enough to train Chimera ant arc Killua. And Hisoka would eat both for breakfast, for sure Bara at the very least. And be able to one shot Bara in her strong form is not that much of a feat when you consider the other pal of Gentsuru was dealth with quite easily by Greed isalnd Killua (a low/mid diff fight at best for Killua, he used that fight to test new tricks).



I think it is common sense to say that Chrollo is stronger than the other spiders, or it isn't for you? Be a double star hunter is not a testament of how strong you are. Teradin was too a 2 star hunter yet he and his new version of the seiren group were decimated by a certain someone, we have also 1 star hunter like Tsez who are weaker than Gredd island Gon and Killua and Bushidora who was offpanled by the certain someone I mentioned before. Then sure there are 2 star hunters like Gin but there are also 2 star hunter like Teradin who was killed by somebody too. This to say that be a single/double hunter is not a testament of your strength, not at all. Zodiac level is not bad, actually they are among the strongest humans it is simply that guys like Chrollo, Hisoka, Netero, Gin etc. are above that. And what is your claim for Netero having the Zoadiacs as sparring partners? Do you think he even put in a fraction of what he did vs Meruem? The best way to dodge the Zodiac fighting capability as of now is Hisoka judgment. Also Gin is a zoadiac too but of course you can not say that since he is a zodiac then all the others are at the same level than Gin, I even mentioned before Hisoka went to vote just to see if he could find Gin, which of course Hisoka too considered a part from the other zodiacs 8and also he along with Pariston is not a Zodiac anymore). Or do you think all the zodiac can be compared to Gin powerwise?



Yet we didn't see one so far, so we have to assume she has not it. And this is a huge weakness that would cost her the victory alone most likely. Maybe to do properly this fight we need to wait until Togashi shows her combat hatsu but I think that until that day we have to suppose she has none (or do you want ot invent one for her to use vs Hisoka?).


Nice assumptions, for real I think you are most likely right. Yet again we have no trace of her combat hatsu so it is better to wait for Togashi to show it. Until that point we have to assume there is none.



And Chrollo can make mince meat of people throwing enhanced cards but that is for fodder, he becomes serious (at least quite serious) the moment he starts to use bungee gum.



You don't get my point. Hisoka had to come up with plans and decisions in the mid of a fight the moment Chrollo did a new trick and those were life or death decision. Biscuit come up with the plan to fight Gentsuru and friends (who in the end were almost fodder) yet she had weeks to plan it. You keep saying my arguments are full of assumptions and lack of knowledge but you are the one who keeps mentioning 40 years of expreicne in fighting like that is enough to put her above Hisoka, she is a double start hunter when fighting wise it means nothing since we have 1 and 2 start hunters who are weak and very weak and lastly she has not even showed any combat hatsu yet you assume she has to have one in order to not make this whole argument pointless... I try to be nice but you are asking for it, sorry.



The potential is important. Biscuit most likely already fullfilled her potential, sure she can become stronger but no so much. Then we have extraoridnary guys like Gon, Killua, Ging, Hisoka, Chrollo etc. who have an higher potential than her simply because they are more gifted. Experience is important but you just assume that since she has 40 years of combat experience then she is more experienced than Hisoka. I could assume 8since you keep saying that I love assumptions) that even if Hisoka has not 40 years if combat exprience he most likely fought stronger enemies (since he actively looks for them) and so faced way nore life or death/situations so maybe even if he has a shorter experience his weights more. Morel is an ecprienced hunter but a support hunter, not a fighter, he survived cause he come up with tricks each time and those tricks are for sure from his experience as an hunter but he himself was only able to stall them. Also again with the potential at first a cocky Morel wanted Gon to show him his power, despite all his experience Gon made him shat his pants simply because Gon potential is monstrous and no matter the experience Morel can never reach the power that Gon was about to hit him with, experience or not. There are some things experience can not help you with, just look at the Chimera ants: they were just few weeks/months old at best yet they shat on everybody cause their potential and power was off the chart. Not to count how guys like Meruem were able to beat master in all sort of games simple because he was a genius without par from the moment he was born.


Hisoka toyed with Kastro, he hoped for him to have imrpoved to ebcome an interesting fight and that was why he left him alive the first time but he was mistaken and the 2nd time he just killed him. Hisoka played the fool the whole fight, do we even have to argbur about this? So do you think Chrollo won just because he was not intimidated by Hisoka or maybe because Chrollo is another fighting genius that unlike Hisoka who was cocky prepared carefully for the match? Just to say. And anyway it is not that you find a Chrollo in every corner of HxH world, everybody (be it Gin, Netero or every other human) would be at the very least hard pressed vs Chrollo and Chrollo himself praised Hisoka for how far he brought him with his abilities. Hisoka ability is simple but lethal, like seen in many fights using a material that has both the properties of rubber and gum has infinite uses in a fight. But for sure Biscuit's hatsu is better, doesn't it?

1. Hisoka and Illumi are long time acquaintances so that isn't proof that Hisoka can sense people hiding their power. And Illumi is not one to hide his power. He shows his blood lust quite freely so that cannot be used as a point. And you're comparing people with far less experience in nen and its uses to Bisky. Illumi and Kalluto are literal children when it comes to nen compared to Bisky. And it is factual that very experinced nen masters can hide how strong they are. Zeno notes that was one of Netero's strong points. Binolt is far from fodder lol. To put this in perspective, Hisoka had to put in effort against pre greed island training Gon in Heavens Arena yet, Bisky determined that Binolt would have killed Gon and Killua if they fought him alone and that was after Binolt was already injured. The point with the hair is that Binolt thought he was a match for Bisky and that he could kill her before actually learning how strong she is through her ability. It highlights just how good she is at hiding how strong. Hisoka didn't pay Bisky any mind in GI because he had no way to gauge her power. And again, Hisoka's criteria are purely subjective and fails to take into account so many other factors that are important in a nen battle.

2. Go read the panel again. She had less time to react to the ball than Hisoka and dodged it cleanly with her physical ability while suppressed and only got tagged out because her dress is puffy. Hisoka had more time to dodge the ball because it came for Bisky first unless you're going to say that his reaction time is so shit that he didn't realize a ball was coming until it came directly to his face. And no lol, it was no with his bare hand. The ball hit him in the face and he used bungee gum to catch it not his pure physicals. It's not ludicrous to suggest that speed wise at the very least the outclasses Hisoka. Addtionally, the only reason she went into her normal form was because she was running short on time and wanted to finish things quickly. And you're acting like it's not a black mark on her now for using her normal unsupressed form to train Killua who you keep harping has immense potential. And you're making the assumption that she was going all out when she demonstrated that she could kill them if she even got remotely serious. Her Ko is so strong that a little Ko on her finger with no added physical force is enough to send them flying. And yes, Hisoka would deal with scrubs with massive flaws relatively easily.

3. And you have to define strong. This isn't one piece. In H x H you must define conditions. Chrollo may have combat superiority over the other spiders (that is not even a guarantee) but it quite heavily depends on the circumstance. As a specialist and due to the nature of his abilities, it's quite literally a toss up if he faces the likes of Uvo, Nobu, Phinks, Feitan, Machi and Shalnark in a 1 v1 when he has no time to prepare.The Enhancers and Transmuters would be able to overpower him as a result of just having better affinity for enhancement as made evident by his engagement with Zeno so, no you can without a doubt say that Chrollo is "stronger" because thats not how fights in H x H work.

4. Proclaiming she is a double star hunter is used to measure her experience. And, unlike the others you have brought up, her line of work requires that she is extremely competent in combat. Bisky trains all the time by her own admission. The people you mention have cushy jobs that don't require them to fight or train. Bisky has been training for the past 40 years and does so constantly and is actually a field Hunter. And what proof do you have that Chrollo, Hisoka and Illumi are above the Zodiacs who are handpicked sparring partners of Netero?. You have nothing to substantiate such a claim. Netero's gauage of strength and combat ability > Hisoka's whose evaulation is based purely on instincts and first impressions. And no all Zodiacs can be compared to Ging but, by virtue of being handpicked by the strongest Human Nen user in history as sparring partners, their strength cannot be questioned especially when you're making wild claims about Hisoka, Chrollo and the like being above them without proof to justify such claims.

5. You make wild assumptions and jump to conclusions with very little logical progression for that logic but you discount simple logic of the process of nen users and their abilities. I will reiterate from Cookie Chan, Cookie Chan is not an ability for a nen novice. Cookie Chan requires mastery of categories that are downright inefficient and detrimental to be formulated by a novice without crippling conditions. Nen users who are in the field usually crate a combat oriented ability because becoming stronger is one of the first things they try to achieve. Bisky trains nen users for combat and has 40 years of combat and nen experince yet she can be assumed to not have one?

6. Even if we assume she lacks a nen ablity, who says you need a complicated nen ability to win a nen battle? Enhancers can literally get away with Ko punches as their Hatsu and are very efficient and effective because they have a high efficiency and mastery for enhancement. Bisky has 80% efficiency for enhancement and shows immense mastery for enhancement as virtue by how instanteous her Ko is, how instantaneous she can redirect her aura, and how long she can sustain her use of Ren.

7. 40 Years of Combat Experience means something lol. Knuckle and Morel explicitly state how important combat experience is. Morel was able to dance around ants with far more aura and potential than he had with sheer wits and his combat experience. Combat experience is what allows people like Morel, Zeno etc to come up with their plans on the fly and analyze Hatsu abilities on a single glance. So, no I will keep mentioning 40 Years of nen and combat experience because by all measures and accounts which the author has reiterated over and over again does mean something.

8. How do you know she has reached her potential? Netero reached the peak of his original potential at 46 and his potential is likely nowhere near that of Gon and Killua. And the burden of proof is on you to prove that Hisoka and Chrollo have this immense potential you claim. From all we know, Hisoka and Chrollo are simply very witty and intelligent characters respectively that have composure to make use of their nen ability. No one has ever remarked on their potential in any way or shape or form.

9. Morel with all his experience is not just a "support" character. He has fought against creatures far stronger and dangerous than anyone Hisoka or Chrollo has fought and came out on top through his sheer experience and wits. And Morel backed down because he saw that taking a clean hit from a monstrous enhancer like Gon clean would spell death for him. How is that supposed to be something to be held against him? Hisoka dies if he takes that punch too. Hisoka was getting his shit stomped in by a 40% enhancer like Chrollo the same Chrollo who backed down the moment Zeno showed him Gyo. And I think you're forgetting that Knuckle , Shoot and Morel survived the CA through a mix of their courage and experience. Morel beat Cheetu, Leol, Stalled Youpi and Stalled Pouf in the span of less than a day while he was depleted of aura due to the fact his smoke soliders were still active in the capital. He overcame his obstacles through experience. An the Chimera ants are exceptions. No Humans has the potential of the Chimera Ants hence why they were such a threat. And. Meruem only beat Netero because he gained the ability to critically think and plan after countless of Gungi battles with Komugi which btw is also part of experience. Netero would have eventually won if not for Komugi playing Gungi with Meruem.

10. And yes, Hisoka could have killed him the first time but the second time her explicitly notes how much stronger Kastro had gotten and it was a shame he was an idiot because if he focused on his natural category of enhancement that he would have won. And yes it's clear why Hisoka lost that fight and Hisoka's ability is very simple and useful and not once did I say that "Bisky has a better Hatsu". Bisky through evidence from all the nen users we have seen in the series who operate in the field almost guaranteed has a combat ability but even without it, she doesn't' necessarily need one with her proficiency and mastery for enhancement. And the simplicity of Hisoka's ability makes it hard to counter but that doesn't mean it's impossible unless you think someone strong enough can't just over power it with sheer strength and there are limits to his ability. By Togashi's words, it can stretch a max of 10 meters and thats with the use of emission. Bisky was able to deduce the mechanism of a far more complex Hatsu on the spot (Prince Maryams Nen Beasts' Spatial ability) yet, she can't do anything against Bungee Gum or she can't figure out that it likely has a limit to how far it can stretch before it loses its tensile strength.

To Conclude, Bisky is the superior overall combat because of her combat experience, her martial prowess due to being a master in the same martial art founded by Isaac Netero. She is physically superior as made evident by her feats in Greed Island and from the virtue of her personality which is obsessive with training. She has a greater mastery of nen in all categories available to Transmuters to such an extent that she is able to formulate an inefficiently nen ability and use it efficiently.

Enhancement - She has enough mastery and proficiency to Train natural enhancers in enhancement. Her use of Ko, Ryu, Gyo is extremely efficient and she has demonstrated feats of enhancement and knowledge we have no seen from Hisoka (not saying Hisoka doesn't have it) but the fact that a specialist like Chrollo is able to consistently hurt Hisoka with ehanced strikes despite being only 40% efficient in it means that Hisoka's mastery of the enhancement category is not up to par.

Transmuter - This cannot be said with certainty but, Transmuter is alos Bisky's natural category and with many more decades to master and train her transmutation, she is likely a more masterful transmuter which is somewhat evident if we see how well she can shape her aura. Also, as a virtue of how training other categories strengthens ones natural category, Bisky's training of her other categories to extremely proficiency means that she her Transmuter is likely great than Hisoka's who lacks great enhancement and Emission (he can only stretch 10m with Bungee Gum).

Conjurer : This is not a certainty but she trains all her categories but since she has no Hatsu with conjuration we can give mastery to Hisoka due to texture suprise.

Manipulation: She wins in this she is able to freely control Cookie Chan despite Manipulation being the worst category for transmuters. Hisoka has shown no mastery of this category in any shape or form.

Emission: She came up with the complete training regiment for Emission for Gon and Killua. Cookie Chan is also almost certainly emitted meaning she has a very strong grasp of Emission while Hisoka has shown no use of basic Emission besides just being able to stretch Bungee Gum 10 meters.

Also, no hostility intended from me. I don't like arguing but when I'm passionate about something like H x H, I will argue it in a very serious way. :cheers:

 

[Just a member]

1. Hisoka and Illumi are long time acquaintances so that isn't proof that Hisoka can sense people hiding their power. And Illumi is not one to hide his power. He shows his blood lust quite freely so that cannot be used as a point. And you're comparing people with far less experience in nen and its uses to Bisky. Illumi and Kalluto are literal children when it comes to nen compared to Bisky. And it is factual that very experinced nen masters can hide how strong they are. Zeno notes that was one of Netero's strong points. Binolt is far from fodder lol. To put this in perspective, Hisoka had to put in effort against pre greed island training Gon in Heavens Arena yet, Bisky determined that Binolt would have killed Gon and Killua if they fought him alone and that was after Binolt was already injured. The point with the hair is that Binolt thought he was a match for Bisky and that he could kill her before actually learning how strong she is through her ability. It highlights just how good she is at hiding how strong. Hisoka didn't pay Bisky any mind in GI because he had no way to gauge her power. And again, Hisoka's criteria are purely subjective and fails to take into account so many other factors that are important in a nen battle.

The fact is that Hisoka wasn't even paying attention to the stage, he felt Illumi and his power level even if he was not even concentrated on him and the other hunters in row. Also you can't assume Illumi was leaking out bloodlust or any other revealing factor, that happened when he was provoked by Hisoka or when Illumi wanted to frighten Killua. We can not assume that Illumi was revealing anything while in row to make his vote.. Kalluto is most likely still below Biscuit (and it could be that she never surpasses her, we don't know that) but I wouldn't be so sure about Illumi, anyway let's not make this larger any further.

Binolt was at best a mid tier for Greed island arc, in the end Killua and Gon surpassed him in the span of a few days, Chimera ant arc Gon or Killua (or Knucle to take another guy) would totally destroy Binolt. Well, Hisoka put effort in fighting Gon in the heaven arena but we got later showings of Hisoka that show that he can do a lot more than that.. Biscuit determined that Binolt could have killed them , that is for sure but those were early Greed island Gon and Killua who didn't had done yet any kind of training by Biscuit and also they anyway become stronger by fighting Binolt in the span of a few days (there is a lot of focus on how Gon and Killua get stronger and stronger after certain events like trainings, more times than not). Another point is that to beat Binolt Biscuit didn't even need to use her strong form unlike what happened with Bara (and we can not say Bara is a monster since Greed island Killua took out his other pal without much effort either), far from that she ended him with a couple of blows and didn't even use any kind of nen. And to end the Binolt point Biscuit himself at the end says that Binolto was comparable powerwise to a D rank card so multiple points to show that Binolto wasn't a big deal at all.

Now we can not compare Binolt ability to judge Biscuit to what Hisoka does usually or him judging the Zoadiacs and hunters in row to vote. Binolto was used as a total hype tool for Biscuit and then training material for Gon and Killua, that was his full purpose, while Hisoka is one of the MCs and him giving those judgment without any kind of correction by anybody later has to be taken seriously and it is the best way to judge overall people powerlevels unless we have a better source to gauge them. Also of course Hisoka gave a general powerlevel judgment and for every fight there are circumstances that can totally tilt the odds yet if Hisoka puts the fat guy at 90, tiger at 85 and then Illumi at 95 and there is no other real power level gauge we can use (let's say a fight between tiger and Illumi and the likes) we have to assume that, without particular circumstances, Illumi is most likely stornger than these guys (then of course they can have a storng hatsu, prepare like Chrollo did with Hisoka etc.). Then of course, the zodiacs were handpick by Netero as his sparring partners but do you think Netero went remotely close to what he did vs Meruem? Nope, not chance. Before getting back to that level first of all he get his special training suit (lol) to underline how he was serious, then had to kill waves of enemies before saying he was startiing to get back his touch and then he also meditate/train for a bit on a peak in order to be at his best form (the one direction Killua avoided because he sensed something amiss and that was Netero meditating to gather power) said this the zodiacs are not fodder at all, Hisoka gave them very high points (85 and 90 mean that they are close to Hisoka most likely, but still a bit below probably since it seems his power is 100, yet this just an assumption but it the genral assumption people takes) while the other hunters in row get way lower grades (10, 40 etc.) Hisoka even considered taking them as his next targets (even if of course he would have liked more guys like Ging) and I say again that unless we have a better gauge those general powerlevels are the best meter we have to judge these zodiacs power level at least compared to Hisoka and Illumi.

2. Go read the panel again. She had less time to react to the ball than Hisoka and dodged it cleanly with her physical ability while suppressed and only got tagged out because her dress is puffy. Hisoka had more time to dodge the ball because it came for Bisky first unless you're going to say that his reaction time is so shit that he didn't realize a ball was coming until it came directly to his face. And no lol, it was no with his bare hand. The ball hit him in the face and he used bungee gum to catch it not his pure physicals. It's not ludicrous to suggest that speed wise at the very least the outclasses Hisoka. Addtionally, the only reason she went into her normal form was because she was running short on time and wanted to finish things quickly. And you're acting like it's not a black mark on her now for using her normal unsupressed form to train Killua who you keep harping has immense potential. And you're making the assumption that she was going all out when she demonstrated that she could kill them if she even got remotely serious. Her Ko is so strong that a little Ko on her finger with no added physical force is enough to send them flying. And yes, Hisoka would deal with scrubs with massive flaws relatively easily.

No, you should reread them maybe. She was closer to the ball than Hisoka so she had less time yet Hisoka started his real dodge only from the moment Biscuit dodged it (and we can not say she did it cleanly, maybe we can't even say she dodged it "dirty" afterall because the ball hit her dress and she got eliminated, what would have ahppened if that was a nen ability of course would have depended on the ability, anyway for the sake of the discussion we can say that she dodged it but for sure not cleanly dodged, unlike Hisoka) since he could not say what was gonna happen (was Biscuit going to catch it, avoid it like she did, redirect it to a completely unknown direction..) so he really started to dodge only from that point and despite that he did it cleanly. But the problem started the next moment, Hisoka dodged the ball but at point blank there the nen beast of Razor who took the ball and rethrow it to an unbalanced Hisoka, at that point the ball was thrown at this face from point blank (and everybody was rightly concerned that Hisoka was going to be eliminated and injured, this is the real feat of all this point) yet using bungee gum and a good reaction time he took it with his hand, it never hit his head, that was the impact of his own hand who was between the ball and his face. It is ludicrous to say she did better than Hisoka in her weak form when her weak form was not enough to deal with Bara and also was not enough to train Killua in the Chimera ant arc before going vs Knucle and Shoot. The point is that you say her weak form outclassed Hisoka and that is not acceptable when she failed to do the things I mentioned above in her weak form, also if she in her weak form is already above Hisoka what do you really think about her? Would she mid diff the likes of Hisoka/Illumi/Chrollo? Maybe beat even Ging? Just to know.
I will post the panels.

Spoiler

3. And you have to define strong. This isn't one piece. In H x H you must define conditions. Chrollo may have combat superiority over the other spiders (that is not even a guarantee) but it quite heavily depends on the circumstance. As a specialist and due to the nature of his abilities, it's quite literally a toss up if he faces the likes of Uvo, Nobu, Phinks, Feitan, Machi and Shalnark in a 1 v1 when he has no time to prepare.The Enhancers and Transmuters would be able to overpower him as a result of just having better affinity for enhancement as made evident by his engagement with Zeno so, no you can without a doubt say that Chrollo is "stronger" because thats not how fights in H x H work.

Sure, but if we start to take in exam conditions, situations, circumstances we will never ever come out of this (hardly we will even just considering general circumstances like these wall texts we are exchanging demonstrate), it is like for the pwoerlevels Hisoka dished out (85, 90, 95 etc.) they are general indicator and say just a general powerlevel indicator but if we have no other pointers and these are the best we have we have to follow them (Netero choosing the zodiacs as his sparring partners doesn't really work for an argument since there are a lot of other elements to consider, the one I said above, Netero for sure didn't fought them with a fraction of what he used vs Meruem, and also you can not put simply in strong guys but also guys who would first of all accpet, doubt Illumi or Hisoka will, and strength can not only be the only factor to consider, they most likely have to be experienced hunter with at the very least years of exp and accomplishments etc. etc. oh, and then there are Pariston and Gin who are outliners XD).

4. Proclaiming she is a double star hunter is used to measure her experience. And, unlike the others you have brought up, her line of work requires that she is extremely competent in combat. Bisky trains all the time by her own admission. The people you mention have cushy jobs that don't require them to fight or train. Bisky has been training for the past 40 years and does so constantly and is actually a field Hunter. And what proof do you have that Chrollo, Hisoka and Illumi are above the Zodiacs who are handpicked sparring partners of Netero?. You have nothing to substantiate such a claim. Netero's gauage of strength and combat ability > Hisoka's whose evaulation is based purely on instincts and first impressions. And no all Zodiacs can be compared to Ging but, by virtue of being handpicked by the strongest Human Nen user in history as sparring partners, their strength cannot be questioned especially when you're making wild claims about Hisoka, Chrollo and the like being above them without proof to justify such claims.

Already replied above to the zodiac point. Also Hisoka giving numbers is Togashi giving numbers through Hisoka, and those numbers have not been disproved to this day by any other source (but I already said this).

5. You make wild assumptions and jump to conclusions with very little logical progression for that logic but you discount simple logic of the process of nen users and their abilities. I will reiterate from Cookie Chan, Cookie Chan is not an ability for a nen novice. Cookie Chan requires mastery of categories that are downright inefficient and detrimental to be formulated by a novice without crippling conditions. Nen users who are in the field usually crate a combat oriented ability because becoming stronger is one of the first things they try to achieve. Bisky trains nen users for combat and has 40 years of combat and nen experince yet she can be assumed to not have one?

Cookie chan is for sure a complex ability who requires a lot of nen ability but I bet you agree in a combat that ability would be almost useless (at least with the infos we have about it nowadays) and we can not use any other hatsu for her since she hasn't shown any to this point. So again we will have to wait for Togashi to show her combat hatsu if that day will ever come.

6. Even if we assume she lacks a nen ablity, who says you need a complicated nen ability to win a nen battle? Enhancers can literally get away with Ko punches as their Hatsu and are very efficient and effective because they have a high efficiency and mastery for enhancement. Bisky has 80% efficiency for enhancement and shows immense mastery for enhancement as virtue by how instanteous her Ko is, how instantaneous she can redirect her aura, and how long she can sustain her use of Ren.

For sure a nen ability combat oriented helps, I think we don't need to discuss this, don't we? If wìshe was a reinforcer like Gon or Uvo I would agree that in the end you just need to pump nen and so you don't need complicated techniques but this is not the case. Anyway on the other hand biscuit hatsu is a combo of a lot of nen types so that at least shows she has great control over many nen types, that is good but to this day she still lacks to show an hatsu for combat and that matters.

7. 40 Years of Combat Experience means something lol. Knuckle and Morel explicitly state how important combat experience is. Morel was able to dance around ants with far more aura and potential than he had with sheer wits and his combat experience. Combat experience is what allows people like Morel, Zeno etc to come up with their plans on the fly and analyze Hatsu abilities on a single glance. So, no I will keep mentioning 40 Years of nen and combat experience because by all measures and accounts which the author has reiterated over and over again does mean something.

Like said in the previous reply experience on the field is important but so is natural talent and she falls short when compared to monster like Gon/Killua/Hisoka/Ging etc.

8. How do you know she has reached her potential? Netero reached the peak of his original potential at 46 and his potential is likely nowhere near that of Gon and Killua. And the burden of proof is on you to prove that Hisoka and Chrollo have this immense potential you claim. From all we know, Hisoka and Chrollo are simply very witty and intelligent characters respectively that have composure to make use of their nen ability. No one has ever remarked on their potential in any way or shape or form.

After 40 years of so intense training she should lol anyway there is no indication that she (or any other charcaters bar Gon, Killua and probably a few others) get stronger after each arc (and this is true most likely even for Hisoka despite him being younger and with most likely more potential than Biscuit), they are side character who don't go through any kind of training in panel and as well there is no mentioning that they have undergone some special training or anything that made them stornger since the last time we saw them (unlike Gon and Killua who costantly undergo training on panel, invent, develop and even test new skills etc.).
Here comes the proof for Hisoka potential you wanted, it is from his origin story, it is a very good read and imo you will enjoy it:

Spoiler

http://mangastream.today/chapter/hunter-x-hunter-hisoka-origin-story-chapter-0

To be honest it is shown in that story that Hisoka potential is even greater (far greater lol) than the likes of Killua and Gon but for the sake of the discussion (and generally) it is better to say they are in the same categroy. Anyway there is plenty of references to what you were asking (proofs of Hisoka's great potential) and towards the end the comparison Hisoka-Ging.

9. Morel with all his experience is not just a "support" character. He has fought against creatures far stronger and dangerous than anyone Hisoka or Chrollo has fought and came out on top through his sheer experience and wits. And Morel backed down because he saw that taking a clean hit from a monstrous enhancer like Gon clean would spell death for him. How is that supposed to be something to be held against him? Hisoka dies if he takes that punch too. Hisoka was getting his shit stomped in by a 40% enhancer like Chrollo the same Chrollo who backed down the moment Zeno showed him Gyo. And I think you're forgetting that Knuckle , Shoot and Morel survived the CA through a mix of their courage and experience. Morel beat Cheetu, Leol, Stalled Youpi and Stalled Pouf in the span of less than a day while he was depleted of aura due to the fact his smoke soliders were still active in the capital. He overcame his obstacles through experience. An the Chimera ants are exceptions. No Humans has the potential of the Chimera Ants hence why they were such a threat. And. Meruem only beat Netero because he gained the ability to critically think and plan after countless of Gungi battles with Komugi which btw is also part of experience. Netero would have eventually won if not for Komugi playing Gungi with Meruem.

He is not a support charcater (well he is really but this doesn't matter), he is a support type fighter and not a direct fighter type (like it said for Nobunaga/Uvo opposed to support types like that don't fight in the front lines). Sure, let's remark again the value of experience but despite that in the end they also were lucky in the chimera ant arc to survive but since this point can really be made for almost anything in a manga I will just add that theants at the end spared them (and again the ants had almost 0 experience, they were newborn, but had an incredible potential which was also fulfillled, maybe, from the moment they were born, they were born monsters in short). Sure Meruem for sure gained a lot form his matches with Komugi but he was also stomping world class master in many different games with basically only his intelligence and knowledge about the rules and that was his extreme talent, also in the end that helped but Netero and Meruem were worlds a part from the start of the fight. Netero most likely wouldn't have been able to win even if Meruem stood there without moving the whole fight, Netero would have died first of exaustion than Meruem from the damage taken. But let's not go there either please :p (this is too much time consuming)

10. And yes, Hisoka could have killed him the first time but the second time her explicitly notes how much stronger Kastro had gotten and it was a shame he was an idiot because if he focused on his natural category of enhancement that he would have won. And yes it's clear why Hisoka lost that fight and Hisoka's ability is very simple and useful and not once did I say that "Bisky has a better Hatsu". Bisky through evidence from all the nen users we have seen in the series who operate in the field almost guaranteed has a combat ability but even without it, she doesn't' necessarily need one with her proficiency and mastery for enhancement. And the simplicity of Hisoka's ability makes it hard to counter but that doesn't mean it's impossible unless you think someone strong enough can't just over power it with sheer strength and there are limits to his ability. By Togashi's words, it can stretch a max of 10 meters and thats with the use of emission. Bisky was able to deduce the mechanism of a far more complex Hatsu on the spot (Prince Maryams Nen Beasts' Spatial ability) yet, she can't do anything against Bungee Gum or she can't figure out that it likely has a limit to how far it can stretch before it loses its tensile strength.

Hisoka hoped for him to have become stronger but on the same time he joked for the whole fight offering limbs left and right and then doing magician tricks lol you see that when he takes a fight seriously (vs Chrollo) he acts in a total different way. If he tried what he did vs Kastro then Chrollo would have destroyed him in moments. He did that with Kastro only because he knew he was well above Kastro's level. Didn't we already go through this? Also I don't recall saying you said Bisky has a better hatsu anyway for sure that is something important she still lacks (to show at least) in a fight. If anything we can blame this on Togashi for not making her have a really serious fight until now on panel and so we don't know if she has one or not and if she has it what it is. Let's stop at this. She can most likely gauge Hisoka ability like many other have done but the point is the incredible number of things Hisoka can use bungee gun for, the only limit is his fantasy in the end (or better Togashi's and what he wants to do with the fight) and there is also fake texture to consider and the power up (most likely) he get after his fight with Chrollo.

To Conclude, Bisky is the superior overall combat because of her combat experience, her martial prowess due to being a master in the same martial art founded by Isaac Netero. She is physically superior as made evident by her feats in Greed Island and from the virtue of her personality which is obsessive with training. She has a greater mastery of nen in all categories available to Transmuters to such an extent that she is able to formulate an inefficiently nen ability and use it efficiently.

Enhancement - She has enough mastery and proficiency to Train natural enhancers in enhancement. Her use of Ko, Ryu, Gyo is extremely efficient and she has demonstrated feats of enhancement and knowledge we have no seen from Hisoka (not saying Hisoka doesn't have it) but the fact that a specialist like Chrollo is able to consistently hurt Hisoka with ehanced strikes despite being only 40% efficient in it means that Hisoka's mastery of the enhancement category is not up to par.

Transmuter - This cannot be said with certainty but, Transmuter is alos Bisky's natural category and with many more decades to master and train her transmutation, she is likely a more masterful transmuter which is somewhat evident if we see how well she can shape her aura. Also, as a virtue of how training other categories strengthens ones natural category, Bisky's training of her other categories to extremely proficiency means that she her Transmuter is likely great than Hisoka's who lacks great enhancement and Emission (he can only stretch 10m with Bungee Gum).

Conjurer : This is not a certainty but she trains all her categories but since she has no Hatsu with conjuration we can give mastery to Hisoka due to texture suprise.

Manipulation: She wins in this she is able to freely control Cookie Chan despite Manipulation being the worst category for transmuters. Hisoka has shown no mastery of this category in any shape or form.

Emission: She came up with the complete training regiment for Emission for Gon and Killua. Cookie Chan is also almost certainly emitted meaning she has a very strong grasp of Emission while Hisoka has shown no use of basic Emission besides just being able to stretch Bungee Gum 10 meters.

Also, no hostility intended from me. I don't like arguing but when I'm passionate about something like H x H, I will argue it in a very serious way. :cheers:

The important thing is that you believe it. Also, again, saying she is physically above Hisoka even in her weak form is stretching this a little too much. Also you can't use Chrollo like he is just one among many, if anything Hisoka had a good feat at sensing him at the last moment despite using Zetsu during their fight (at least one time). And Chrollo's zetsu got praised by Silva for killing an assassin after him without leaving the faintest trace of bloodlust. Don't just go look for the worst feat of Hisoka fighting another monster like Chrollo, on the other hand there ar eplenty of very good feats for both in that fight. Then Biscuit has good feats for nen use for making her hatsu and also for showing her trainings to Gona nd Killua but she has not shown anything truly monstrous, that would be Ging showing his control of nen to the pals of Beyond. Also Hisoka had his fight vs a prepared Chrollo when we know an unprepared Chrollo was able to keep up with both Zeno and Silva (despite collapsing right after the fight), these are ther truly good feats that Biscuit lacks at this point. She could have 40 years of training, destroy fodder like Binolt or Bara but we should have at least a comparison with guys of the caliber of Illumi/Hisoka/Chrollo to say where Biscuit truly is powerwise. And also the fact that she still lacks an hatsu (fault of Togashi) is a point against her.

Also (I will stop replying since this is an interesting debate but it takes too much time, also we are going in circles in a lot of arguments) imo the best point you could have used is that she got an higher rating than Hisoka in databooks (and this to show, if there any doubts, that I'm not fanbyoing Hisoka but I'm looking for the true answer to the question), she got a total of 26 vs Hisoka 24.

• According to the "Hunter × Hunter Manual" section found in the Yu ☆ Yu ☆ Hakusho official character book (Shueisha Jump remix),* Biscuit's stats are:

Story Arcs Mind Skill Body Nen Ingenuity Intelligence Greed Island arc 5/5 4/5 5/5 4/5 4/5 4/5

Yet this also is prone to misinterpretaion at least if taken as a way to judge powerlevels since this get remanaged each arc (when it is done at all), and if rarely changes and not by much, and also Gon and Killua get both a 23 and Chrollo as well a 25 (so he too below Biscuit at least according to these databooks and making Gon and Killua already be able to contend with the likes of Hisoka and maybe even Chrollo it is too much) with only the royal guards and Netero above Biscuit (stinks a bit). Also they are referred to different arcs (Chrollo's one is valid for Yorkshin, Biscuit for Gredd island). Hisoka falls short in the "mind" department (3/5) but honestly he displayed a very good feat vs Chrollo mind wise (who would have been able to make the right choices in real time? Very few characters in the whole verse for sure). As a final point the databooks end with Greed sialnd (we have got nothing from CA and after it) and Hisoka at the end of his fight with Chrollo (after coming back to life) got a power up (but we need to see Hisoka again and see if he has something new, so I will of course let this rest).

Also no problem with hostility, I'm sorry if in certain points it sounds like I was mocking or the likes of it too.

 

[VinTheMistborn]

Bisky Wins on the Lower end of High Difficulty . I think she is very underrated. I'll give a few reasons why she trumps Hisoka.

1. She has 40 Years of Nen and combat experience. Hisoka is a combat genius but, if we take the likes of Morel as an example, having years of experience is a factor that natural talent cannot overcome so easily. Morel with his combat experience was able to stall 2 of the Royal guards who are magnitudes above him in power and destroyed the likes of Cheethu and Leol. We dont know how many years Morel has but Bisky is likely older at 57 and likely has more combat experience.

2. She is physically superior. In the dodgeball game against Razor, she is able to react and dodge a trick ball from Razor that Hisoka who has more time to react could not evade and this was in her smaller form. Additionally, she one shot the enhancer from the bomber's squad Greed Island the moment she got serious with a casual punch. From what we know, she trains alot. One of the Hatsu's she has shown in Cookie Chain (This is likely not her only Hatsu). Is meant to allow you to train at maximum efficiency. Her body thus all her physical stats are likely in tip top form. She likely has the strength advantage over Hisoka by a notable margin even though both of them are Transmuters. Hisoka felt the aura enhanced strikes of a Specialist like Chrollo. The same Chrollo that noted that he couldn't do anything to block Zeno's Gyo with his own Aura. If Chrollo is able to hurt Hisoka, despite having only a 40% efficiency rate in Enhancement, it means that Hisoka's enhancement is likely not up to snuff because a fellow transmuter like Zeno was able force Chrollo into the defensive by a simple show of enhancement superiority. (Bisky's from what he know has trained at least 2 Natural Enhancers in that category.)

Spoiler: Dodgeball Sequence

3. She is a Master of Nen. Continuing with what I said before regarding her being superior to Hisoka despite them being both transmuters. She has mastery over all categories that she has access to. Hisoka by canon has only demonstrated Enhancement, Transmuter and a little conjuration. Bisky is is the Master of Gon's First Master in Wing. Wing is a natural enhancer and for someone like Bisky to train an enhancer to a sufficient level, that must mean that her enhancement is elite for a transmuter. She likely is superior in enhancement since she is such a physical fighter. Additionally, it's important to note that her Aura feats are really fucking impressive as well. A show of how efficient one is at Ko, is how fast they can us it and Bisky has managed to engage Ko instantaneously in addition to her use of Ryu being near flawless as well. It is also worth noting that Bisky is a Master in the Shingen Ryu which is the same nen school that Netero founded. She has been at this nen stuff for a very long time.

To further highlight how much of a master she is, all we need to do is look at Cookie Chan. Cookie Chan uses at least Emission (To materialize her), Transmuter (To transform aura into lotion with special properties), Enhancement(to help aid the body's healing process), and Manipulator (To control and give orders to Cookie Chan). Normally, it's not advisable for nen users to combine categories espeically those more than 1 step away from their natural category. Bisky combines 4 different categories. Of those 4, Manipulator is 3 Steps away and Emission is 2 Steps away. Only those who are very skilled in the use of nen with very high aura reserves can actually pull off using inefficient categories for their Hatsu's. Noteable examples are Netero who uses Emission and Manipulation for his 100 Type, Morel, who uses Transmuter to transmute his smoke despite being a Manipulator (40% efficiency.), and Knov who likely has to use Emission together with Conjuration for his Nen Space. (Emission is the worst category for a conjurer at 40%). Bisky is able to create such a seemingly inefficient Hatsu with no visible setbacks or constraints. Since Cookie Chan is a such a simple ability in regards to what it does, there are likely no conditions to its use meaning that Bisky is paying for the entire Hatsu with her Aura reserves with no strain in the slightest. (We know that Emitters have their aura capped the moment they emit and maintain an object).

Moving back to the Wing point, we don't know how good of a combatant wing is but, it is worth noting that Bisky is a Double Star Hunter meaning that one of her former students has gotten a single star. We are not sure how many stars Wing has but it might be him. Wing who was trained in nen by Bisky is now training other Nen Users in the same school in a fighting Arena. This means Wings combat ability and talent are likely above average at the very least. If we go back to the Hisoka vs Kastro fight, Hisoka comments to Kastro that if he stuck to enhancement, since it was his natural category, he would have won their deathmatch because his Tiger Fist ability while simple is also very strong. This is now veering into "head canon" but, I'd like to view someone like Wing who trains students in heavens arena is a competent fighter and would likely pose as a good opponent to Kastro. If Wing is a good opponent for Kastro, he is likely a good opponent for Hisoka because Wing sticks to what he is good at and is casually a wall buster without the input of force through his enhancing Aura. I think that Bisky would still beat Wing simply due to experience and overall combat superiority but if Wing is a good opponent for someone like Hisoka, and Bisky is Wing's Master and still maintains her body and nen, to me she beats Hisoka.

4. She is a quick thinker : Hisoka is not the only witty individual in this fight. Bisky was the person who devised the plot to defeat Genthru during Greed Island. Her years of combat experience means that she is not easily shaken by adverse or unknown situations. In the Manga, she enters into a nen space and is able to devise the possible mechanisms of action for a Hatsu Ability she doesn't fully understand on the spot. We see that Hisoka is usually able to beat his opponents by stunning them through psychological warfare in the battle. For someone with 40 Years of combat experience, she has likely seen it all she is unlikely to lose her wits from whatever plot Hisoka makes. She herself would also subject Hisoka with similar assaults on his psyche. Even though Hisoka's Bungee Gum is quite simple, it is very effective but, with someone of her caliber, it wouldn't take her very long to figure out the limits of Bungee gum.

Togashi notes that Hisoka is only able to stretch Bungee gum 10m through the use of Emission before it breaks. It is worth noting that the ability to extend one's aura far away from the body is a function of the strength of one's mastery in Emission and the Strength of one's Ten. Bisky has displays of Emission that exceeds 10m and states that someone with a functional grasp on Emission should be able to extend their aura for longer distances and would be able to keep that aura from dissipating for days on end. This simple limit of Hisoka's Emission further highlights the point her superiority in nen overall. She would likely be able to devise this limitation the moment she engages Hisoka much like Zeno was able to devise exactly how Skill Hunter Works the moment Chrollo pulled out Bandit's Secret.

5. Lastly I want to address the elephant in the room which is that Bisky seemingly has no combat nen abilities. Although it is not shown, it is very likely that Bisky indeed has combat nen abilities. She even states that she enjoys to lie and keep secrets to keep people on her toes. She had no reason to reveal any combat abilities to Gon and Killua. Also, a nen master with 40 years of combat experience needs one and we know for a fact that certain high profile nen users and masters have multiple abilities such ass Netero, Zeno and Morel. There is no reason for Bisky to not have an ability that is useable in combat situations.

Overall, Hisoka is a monster and without a doubt very powerful but, there are levels to these things. Bisky's superiority in almost every category worth noting for Nen Users means that she will beat Hisoka. Hisoka for the longest time before being humbled by Chrollo, has fought individuals with very clear flaws in the manner they fight.

1. Gotoh - Became erratic and lost his composure
2. Kastro - Became erratic and lost his composure and decided to focus on a category that isn't his natural category despite not being a master nen user.
3. Killed non combat scrubs from the New Paladin squad.

Hisoka didn't face an equal in single combat until he met Chrollo who used his own arrogance against him and ran circles around him. Bisky , to reiterate is a nen master with 40 years of combat experience, a master of the Shingen Ryu, a Double Star Hunter and a host of other factors going for her. I don't see Hisoka winning here.

@Sentinel @Seth Rollins @BangMi @RayanOO ETC, for any other H x H fans on this site.

My comrade in weebdom, thank you for this. Togashi straight up CONFIRMED that Bisky is a better Transmuter than Hisoka, and people still want to delude themselves into thinking she's weaker. Her constant use of Cookie-chan during Gon and Killua's Ren training also demonstrate her vast aura reserves and output. She was constantly using it for 10 days without sleep, and it doesn't have any visible Conditions. Similar feats of immense aura output, reserves, and stamina like this have only been seen in Zeno, Chrollo, and Morel.

Worstgen needs to stick to powerscaling One Piece.