How Strong Is General Man’U?
- Thread starter Elder Lee Hung
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The Man, the Myth, the Legend lmfao.
I knew Man’U was about to pull some shit lol.
Chu Generals are the strongest at an average. Seems that the they were right during the coalition claiming that their generals are a league above the pack.
You know, if Chu really is a superstate composed of ex-states,
This may mean that their army is literally made up not just of Great Generals,
But it would mean the Chu Army is literally composed of former Supreme Army Commanders and Kings. There was even a line from Juuko’Ou that made me think he may have been a prior King of the former territory of Juuko...I’ll see if I can find it.
But yeah. It’s quite probable that the Chu Army is essentially composed of Gokei’s, Riboku’s, Go Houmei’s, Renpa’s, etc...
Which would be nucking futs.
@Owl Ki @Blackbeard
This may mean that their army is literally made up not just of Great Generals,
But it would mean the Chu Army is literally composed of former Supreme Army Commanders and Kings. There was even a line from Juuko’Ou that made me think he may have been a prior King of the former territory of Juuko...I’ll see if I can find it.
But yeah. It’s quite probable that the Chu Army is essentially composed of Gokei’s, Riboku’s, Go Houmei’s, Renpa’s, etc...
Which would be nucking futs.
@Owl Ki @Blackbeard
Now that Man’U and co. are retreating, I can say that he definitely exceeded my expectations as a warrior when I first laid eyes on him lol. This dude was someone 95% of our community thought would be squashed by Moubu, but in retrospect Man’U is someone who it seems like Moubu will actually have to surpass in the future lol.
Who knew Chu would have people of this caliber just serving as standard Generals?
Who knew Chu would have people of this caliber just serving as standard Generals?
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I do.
I always thought Moubu was clearly weaker than Kanmei even when Moubu slayed him. So Kanmei > ManU >= Moubu is not crazy to me. The only crazy thing about ManU to me is the fact that even within Chu, he seems to be pretty Un-notorious lol. It really raises the possibility of their being overpowered GGs in the future.
I always thought Moubu was clearly weaker than Kanmei even when Moubu slayed him. So Kanmei > ManU >= Moubu is not crazy to me. The only crazy thing about ManU to me is the fact that even within Chu, he seems to be pretty Un-notorious lol. It really raises the possibility of their being overpowered GGs in the future.
@RayanOO you brought up an interesting point about Man U and Sen To Un and such being weaker now as they are “empty”, but idk man. Look at Man U’s words here closely:
If we break these words down in real time:
“Moubu carries a burden”-> Man U establishing that he understands Moubu has a reason to fight.
“You remind me of how we used to be”-> Man U establishing that he too carried a burden once (weight)
“Before we realized how meaningless it all is” [Man U then brutally overpowers Mou Bu]
The implication here being that Man U is actually stronger now then he once was, IE Moubu has weight, I used to have weight like Moubu, but now I’m strong enough to throttle Moubu (someone who has weight/a burden)
This is a similar concept that we saw with Shi Ei:
That Shi Ei’s spear grew more powerful even though he had nothing left to fight for. Recall that Ouhon defeated Shi Ei through superior skill and not weight:
Ouhon applied high level spear training to overcome his disadvantage, Shi Ei had him beat in speed, strength, power but Ouhon had received high level theoretical spear training which Shi Ei lacked.
In other words, there was no “weight” that allowed Ouhon to surpass an “empty” person like Shi Ei, Ouhon bested him through skill and intelligence.
Hara may very well be trying to imply something about those who are “empty” like you said. Is this concept of “emptiness” above that of “weight”? Or at least weight as we understand it now?
@Blackbeard @Owl Ki @Xione
If we break these words down in real time:
“Moubu carries a burden”-> Man U establishing that he understands Moubu has a reason to fight.
“You remind me of how we used to be”-> Man U establishing that he too carried a burden once (weight)
“Before we realized how meaningless it all is” [Man U then brutally overpowers Mou Bu]
The implication here being that Man U is actually stronger now then he once was, IE Moubu has weight, I used to have weight like Moubu, but now I’m strong enough to throttle Moubu (someone who has weight/a burden)
This is a similar concept that we saw with Shi Ei:
That Shi Ei’s spear grew more powerful even though he had nothing left to fight for. Recall that Ouhon defeated Shi Ei through superior skill and not weight:
Ouhon applied high level spear training to overcome his disadvantage, Shi Ei had him beat in speed, strength, power but Ouhon had received high level theoretical spear training which Shi Ei lacked.
In other words, there was no “weight” that allowed Ouhon to surpass an “empty” person like Shi Ei, Ouhon bested him through skill and intelligence.
Hara may very well be trying to imply something about those who are “empty” like you said. Is this concept of “emptiness” above that of “weight”? Or at least weight as we understand it now?
@Blackbeard @Owl Ki @Xione
This was the first clash of the duel. Man U totally forgot how it feels to have that fire inside him, and being left with nothing and still kicking ass he patronized the idea of weight and burden. And MouBu stillmanaged to push him back later with his bruden, so having a burden is not a liability.
But as the fight went with MouBu he awakes a little and this didn't seem to make him weaker at all. And Man U story is to find that will again, Ju Ko Ou said that he wants Man U to be "alive" again and MouBu can help him. I don't think when he will be himself again he will be weaker than before, like at all.
The story explained us again and again that fighting for something, to carry other wills, and lives give power.
But as the fight went with MouBu he awakes a little and this didn't seem to make him weaker at all. And Man U story is to find that will again, Ju Ko Ou said that he wants Man U to be "alive" again and MouBu can help him. I don't think when he will be himself again he will be weaker than before, like at all.
The story explained us again and again that fighting for something, to carry other wills, and lives give power.
@RayanOO you brought up an interesting point about Man U and Sen To Un and such being weaker now as they are “empty”, but idk man. Look at Man U’s words here closely:
If we break these words down in real time:
“Moubu carries a burden”-> Man U establishing that he understands Moubu has a reason to fight.
“You remind me of how we used to be”-> Man U establishing that he too carried a burden once (weight)
“Before we realized how meaningless it all is” [Man U then brutally overpowers Mou Bu]
The implication here being that Man U is actually stronger now then he once was, IE Moubu has weight, I used to have weight like Moubu, but now I’m strong enough to throttle Moubu (someone who has weight/a burden)
This is a similar concept that we saw with Shi Ei:
That Shi Ei’s spear grew more powerful even though he had nothing left to fight for. Recall that Ouhon defeated Shi Ei through superior skill and not weight:
Ouhon applied high level spear training to overcome his disadvantage, Shi Ei had him beat in speed, strength, power but Ouhon had received high level theoretical spear training which Shi Ei lacked.
In other words, there was no “weight” that allowed Ouhon to surpass an “empty” person like Shi Ei, Ouhon bested him through skill and intelligence.
Hara may very well be trying to imply something about those who are “empty” like you said. Is this concept of “emptiness” above that of “weight”? Or at least weight as we understand it now?
@Blackbeard @Owl Ki @Xione
If we break these words down in real time:
“Moubu carries a burden”-> Man U establishing that he understands Moubu has a reason to fight.
“You remind me of how we used to be”-> Man U establishing that he too carried a burden once (weight)
“Before we realized how meaningless it all is” [Man U then brutally overpowers Mou Bu]
The implication here being that Man U is actually stronger now then he once was, IE Moubu has weight, I used to have weight like Moubu, but now I’m strong enough to throttle Moubu (someone who has weight/a burden)
This is a similar concept that we saw with Shi Ei:
That Shi Ei’s spear grew more powerful even though he had nothing left to fight for. Recall that Ouhon defeated Shi Ei through superior skill and not weight:
Ouhon applied high level spear training to overcome his disadvantage, Shi Ei had him beat in speed, strength, power but Ouhon had received high level theoretical spear training which Shi Ei lacked.
In other words, there was no “weight” that allowed Ouhon to surpass an “empty” person like Shi Ei, Ouhon bested him through skill and intelligence.
Hara may very well be trying to imply something about those who are “empty” like you said. Is this concept of “emptiness” above that of “weight”? Or at least weight as we understand it now?
@Blackbeard @Owl Ki @Xione
Now that Shin has become a General, I am expecting there to be enemy Generals in the future that draw their resolve from differing sources of inner strength.
Speculation time. Lol.
I think our first glimpses of these potential new sources of inner strength happened in both the Wei Fire Dragon Arc and the Kokuyou Hills Arc.
With the Wei Fire Dragon Arc, we have Earl Shi who pretty much seems to embody the same "emptiness" that Man U represents.
There is also Gaimou, who seems to be a bit controversial in that he has the Weight of a General but not the mentality of a typical General that possesses Weight. I expect the eventual explanation to be that Gaimou does indeed have Weight but he found a different way to attain it compared to Ouki or Gaimou has something exactly comparable to the Weight of a General (perhaps Emptiness) and Shin called it Weight out of ignorance.
With the Kokuyou Hills Arc, Kanki appears to potentially be packing something completely different up his sleeve, something that is fuelled by his rage.
So yeah, we are probably going to see more of these potential rival ideologies to Weight in Emptiness and Rejection.
@RayanOO you brought up an interesting point about Man U and Sen To Un and such being weaker now as they are “empty”, but idk man. Look at Man U’s words here closely:
If we break these words down in real time:
“Moubu carries a burden”-> Man U establishing that he understands Moubu has a reason to fight.
“You remind me of how we used to be”-> Man U establishing that he too carried a burden once (weight)
“Before we realized how meaningless it all is” [Man U then brutally overpowers Mou Bu]
The implication here being that Man U is actually stronger now then he once was, IE Moubu has weight, I used to have weight like Moubu, but now I’m strong enough to throttle Moubu (someone who has weight/a burden)
This is a similar concept that we saw with Shi Ei:
That Shi Ei’s spear grew more powerful even though he had nothing left to fight for. Recall that Ouhon defeated Shi Ei through superior skill and not weight:
Ouhon applied high level spear training to overcome his disadvantage, Shi Ei had him beat in speed, strength, power but Ouhon had received high level theoretical spear training which Shi Ei lacked.
In other words, there was no “weight” that allowed Ouhon to surpass an “empty” person like Shi Ei, Ouhon bested him through skill and intelligence.
Hara may very well be trying to imply something about those who are “empty” like you said. Is this concept of “emptiness” above that of “weight”? Or at least weight as we understand it now?
@Blackbeard @Owl Ki @Xione
If we break these words down in real time:
“Moubu carries a burden”-> Man U establishing that he understands Moubu has a reason to fight.
“You remind me of how we used to be”-> Man U establishing that he too carried a burden once (weight)
“Before we realized how meaningless it all is” [Man U then brutally overpowers Mou Bu]
The implication here being that Man U is actually stronger now then he once was, IE Moubu has weight, I used to have weight like Moubu, but now I’m strong enough to throttle Moubu (someone who has weight/a burden)
This is a similar concept that we saw with Shi Ei:
That Shi Ei’s spear grew more powerful even though he had nothing left to fight for. Recall that Ouhon defeated Shi Ei through superior skill and not weight:
Ouhon applied high level spear training to overcome his disadvantage, Shi Ei had him beat in speed, strength, power but Ouhon had received high level theoretical spear training which Shi Ei lacked.
In other words, there was no “weight” that allowed Ouhon to surpass an “empty” person like Shi Ei, Ouhon bested him through skill and intelligence.
Hara may very well be trying to imply something about those who are “empty” like you said. Is this concept of “emptiness” above that of “weight”? Or at least weight as we understand it now?
@Blackbeard @Owl Ki @Xione
First talking about the "boosts", going over the fights for a bit.
Ouki vs Houken: Houken was superior to Ouki in everything according to Kyoukai & Houken himself, yet he was losing the fighting. Ouki credited this to his weight from carrying the hopes/dreams of his comrades & enemies as well as the responsibility of being responsible for thousands of lives, that this empowered him to a point where he could overcome Houken who outskilled him and superior overall physically.
In this fight, Hara establishes that one's weight can allow one to surpass those in superior physicality and skills when it comes to fighting. Which is how Ouki whooped on Houken . Now one's weight would depend on the lives he or she has been responsible for on the battle field, the number of people they have commanded and slain.
Moubu vs Kanmei: Despite what Man'U believes as to how Moubu beat Kanmei, it wasn't because of Moubu having superior Weight of a General. Moubu had the same strength & skill as Kanmei (that's why they're both 99 in combat strngth by Hara), as well as the same weight of a general. Up until the very last point both were equals. What decided the winner of this fight wasn't what Moubu carried, rather what Moubu saw. He saw his son getting slashed up, which triggered an emotional rage/boost. This is also seen in Ouki vs Houken duel #1, where Ouki enrages over Kyou's death.
So this fight introduced another factor "emotional boost", nothing to do with having weight, but something that can be triggered by seeing a loss of a friend or a parent or etc. Now what this
Houken vs Shin at Shukai Plains: Houken was again superior to Shin. But samething as Ouki happened here again with Shin, that Shin was able to beat Houken using that concept of "Weight of a General", despite being the inferior one in skills & physicality. Shin on top of that weight of a general, also had an emotional boost going into that fight from seeing Kyoukai fucked up.
Moubu vs Man'U: Moubu reflects to Shouheikun when ManU talks about a burden, more than likely it's about helping Shouheikun accomplish the dream of unifying China. Akin to Shin carrying the burden of Ei Sei's dream of unifying China.
So three boosts that empower combatants that allow them to beat opponents with superior skills & physicality:
- Weight of a General
- Emotional rage/boost
- Burden relating to a person or promise or nation or an event (Kanki's past that's boosting him would fall under this)
Now let's get into the "emptiness" and for this similarly, I want to go over 3 fights here:
Gaimou vs Shin: Gaimou's blows had "weight", but for Ouki & Renpa he wouldn't give them a worthy duel because he didn't carry that "Weight of a General", which is different than when a character says "his blow carries weight". As even Shin himself was able to see that Gaimou lacked something compared to Renpa and Ouki, the longer his fight with Gaimou continued, thus able to conclude they didn't consider Gaimou worthy.
Gaimou's "emptiness" laid in that he didn't hold on to the dreams and hopes of his enemies and comrades , and accept that massive responsibility of thousands of lives like Ouki & Renpa did.
Ouhon vs Earl Shi: In this fight Earl Shi is superior to Ouhon in everything, whether it be technique or power. Even when Ouhon starts to "catch up" in technique, the Earl is still superior. However, despite being superior, Earl had a fatal weakness that allowed him to lose to a much inferior opponent.. that was that he was broken. He had given up any hope for life and was just swinging the spear with the style he had known, with no intention of living himself, just killing the enemy.. causing him to be wreckless.
This form of emptiness comes from the Earl Shi not having any desire to live, an extreme form that lowered his capabilities as a fighter a decent amount, despite his spear skills improving.
Man'U vs Moubu: Man'U talks of emptiness and liberating from it. This is actually pretty much similar to Gaimou. Man'U no longer fights with anything boosting him or anything of that sort, he's just who he is due to his physical power and fighting skills. Unlike the Earl, he still has a passion to live for War much like Gaimou. But unlike Gaimou, Man'U did once have something to fight for and carried the burdens of other people's hopes and dreams.
So the two types of emptiness:
- No desire to live for anything.
- Still want to fight, but just not holding on to any burdens of other people.
One last thing .. regarding Man'U vs Moubu I for one don't believe that Man'U was superior to Moubu. In my opinion they were equals as combatants, however Man'U was superior to Moubu physically thus able to toss him around more. He has the strongest arm(s) in the 6 Kingdoms. Renpa who was vastly superior to Mougou was pushed couple of times by Mougou due to Mougou having great physical might. But in combatants of equal prowess, it's only natural the one with the superior physicality does most of the pushing back and what not.
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Now addressing this whole thing, Man'U's belief is that if the burden you carry is that of living people they'll betray you and what not, thus in turn weakening/halting your progress. But if it's somebody dead, you'll get stronger eternally. But in order to avoid all that, one can liberate himself from those things. Man'U believes that liberation has made him stronger than before.. but is it true?? We don't know. If it were Ouki & Renpa (who I believe stand at the epitome of Kingdom-verse martially), they'd give him the same treatment they gave Gaimou. Which is why I think Man'U will be proven wrong by Moubu. That even if or when Moubu's "burden" betrays him, Moubu rather than going into emptiness, he'll take on a new burden and use that as a boost.
Emptiness cannot make you stronger, but you can still get stronger through training and what not if you like warfare, which is what Man'U, Gaimou, Houken, etc all love. They'll continue to improve in physicality and in skill. But when faced with an opponent of equal combat prowess they'll take the L, due to being empty and not having a burden as powerful as their opponent. This will get shown in Moubu vs Man'U 2.
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