General & Others I don’t get it with Enma
- Thread starter warsame zaylai
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After rereading wano
Enma didn’t make zoro stronger rather it changed his mentality that was holding him back when he finally let it go that’s when he became stronger
“How should I stabilise my haki then ?! If i have to exuding it at this level it will kill me “
from the looks of it the only reason why zoro was holding back it’s because he didn’t want to die ?
bro it’s new fucking world you can’t hold back at anything and expect to grow.
don’t make sense why zoro was holding back in the first place
I feel like oda randomly made that shit up
Enma didn’t make zoro stronger rather it changed his mentality that was holding him back when he finally let it go that’s when he became stronger
from the looks of it the only reason why zoro was holding back it’s because he didn’t want to die ?
bro it’s new fucking world you can’t hold back at anything and expect to grow.
don’t make sense why zoro was holding back in the first place
I feel like oda randomly made that shit up
The fuck kinda reading comprehension is that? Zoro was resisting Enma not to take too much Haki, because he would die otherwise - later he stopped resisting, which brought his CoC out.
First we had, Enma is not a PU, then we got Enma is actualy a nerf, now we have Zoro was holding back....lmao
What's next?
Thinking Enma is still a magic sword in 2025 is crazy ngl.
Enma was a training tool that enabled Zoro to get stronger and awaken CoC. Now that he's done that, you could switch Enma back for Shusui and Zoro would be exactly as strong as he is now.
Enma forcibly draws out your haki. Zoro never used 100% of his haki prior to Wano, he never even thought of doing so. He likely also didn't even have the Ryuo proficiency to do so. It is certainly possible that he could only access say 70% of his maximum haki output prior to his Ryuo training, who knows; ultimately, he thought 100% haki usage would kill him. When he first used Enma, the sword pulled out way more haki than he's used to. He tried to cut a tree and cut a cliff because he could say, be releasing 10% and Enma will forcibly draw out 90%. He pulled it back and practicing with Enma allowed him to improve his Ryuo.
Enma doesn't give you haki, it simply forces out the haki you already have. It's a limit breaker. When Zoro talked about releasing Enma more, he meant he was restricting the amount of haki Enma could force out of him. For example, say Zoro is releasing 20% on all three swords - he would allow Enma to force out a further 30%, hence why Enma had a special aura on the rooftop.
With Asura, it's safe to assume that he allowed Enma to draw out 100% of his haki. But Zoro was still not using 100% on his other two swords - this is why Enma was the only sword with an aura. This is also why Asura produced only a single line scar on Kaido, as Enma was the only blade that scarred him. Zoro was not physically capable of drawing out 100% of his own haki on the rooftop, that's what he used Enma for and that's why it was seen as a dangerous sword. Say Zoro had a limit of 70% on his haki, Enma broke that and when Zoro draws out 100% of his power he releases CoC, hence why it slipped out accidentally on the rooftop.
Vs King, Enma threw a tantrum because Zoro was restricting it too much - it was unhappy with the level of haki Zoro was feeding it compared to Oden. This is when Zoro had his realisation: he determined that Oden was always feeding Enma large amounts of haki. This led him to go all-out with his own haki - not yet 100% as he could output even more as per 3 dragon style, but similarly large amounts to those produced by Oden. This appeased Enma - but the true power-up here is that Zoro realised how to draw out 100% of his haki by himself. He can now break his own limits.
He no longer needs to rely on Enma and that's the entire point - he was using Enma as a crutch and Enma rejected him for it. Once he took the training wheels off Enma accepted him, but his Ryuo improvements as a result of training with Enma is what allowed him to be capable of drawing out 100% of his haki by himself in the first place.
This is proven by the aura no longer being specific to Enma, but smoke and lightning being shown emanating from all three swords equally. Zoro now has full access to and full control over his haki, which is why he no longer talks about releasing Enma as this sword's ability is completely redundant now - Zoro can release as much haki as he wants to any sword whenever he wants to. He has shown the ability to use ACoC on any sword and the ability to use overflowing ACoA on any sword - KOH is simply him using both at the same time, nothing more. He'd be able to use KOH Shishi Sonson with Sandai if he wanted to.
This shows that he has achieved the same ability as Oden as we know for a fact Oden also evenly distributed his haki across both his swords. We know this because Kaido's scar has two equal cuts. In my opinion, current KOH Zoro is Oden level, but I believe that Oda will choose to keep KOH as a time-based power-up and simply keep making Zoro's base stronger until his base reaches Oden level, as shown by Zoro not using KOH since Wano and just using ACoC or overflowing ACoA alone.
Enma was a training tool that enabled Zoro to get stronger and awaken CoC. Now that he's done that, you could switch Enma back for Shusui and Zoro would be exactly as strong as he is now.
Enma forcibly draws out your haki. Zoro never used 100% of his haki prior to Wano, he never even thought of doing so. He likely also didn't even have the Ryuo proficiency to do so. It is certainly possible that he could only access say 70% of his maximum haki output prior to his Ryuo training, who knows; ultimately, he thought 100% haki usage would kill him. When he first used Enma, the sword pulled out way more haki than he's used to. He tried to cut a tree and cut a cliff because he could say, be releasing 10% and Enma will forcibly draw out 90%. He pulled it back and practicing with Enma allowed him to improve his Ryuo.
Enma doesn't give you haki, it simply forces out the haki you already have. It's a limit breaker. When Zoro talked about releasing Enma more, he meant he was restricting the amount of haki Enma could force out of him. For example, say Zoro is releasing 20% on all three swords - he would allow Enma to force out a further 30%, hence why Enma had a special aura on the rooftop.
With Asura, it's safe to assume that he allowed Enma to draw out 100% of his haki. But Zoro was still not using 100% on his other two swords - this is why Enma was the only sword with an aura. This is also why Asura produced only a single line scar on Kaido, as Enma was the only blade that scarred him. Zoro was not physically capable of drawing out 100% of his own haki on the rooftop, that's what he used Enma for and that's why it was seen as a dangerous sword. Say Zoro had a limit of 70% on his haki, Enma broke that and when Zoro draws out 100% of his power he releases CoC, hence why it slipped out accidentally on the rooftop.
Vs King, Enma threw a tantrum because Zoro was restricting it too much - it was unhappy with the level of haki Zoro was feeding it compared to Oden. This is when Zoro had his realisation: he determined that Oden was always feeding Enma large amounts of haki. This led him to go all-out with his own haki - not yet 100% as he could output even more as per 3 dragon style, but similarly large amounts to those produced by Oden. This appeased Enma - but the true power-up here is that Zoro realised how to draw out 100% of his haki by himself. He can now break his own limits.
He no longer needs to rely on Enma and that's the entire point - he was using Enma as a crutch and Enma rejected him for it. Once he took the training wheels off Enma accepted him, but his Ryuo improvements as a result of training with Enma is what allowed him to be capable of drawing out 100% of his haki by himself in the first place.
This is proven by the aura no longer being specific to Enma, but smoke and lightning being shown emanating from all three swords equally. Zoro now has full access to and full control over his haki, which is why he no longer talks about releasing Enma as this sword's ability is completely redundant now - Zoro can release as much haki as he wants to any sword whenever he wants to. He has shown the ability to use ACoC on any sword and the ability to use overflowing ACoA on any sword - KOH is simply him using both at the same time, nothing more. He'd be able to use KOH Shishi Sonson with Sandai if he wanted to.
This shows that he has achieved the same ability as Oden as we know for a fact Oden also evenly distributed his haki across both his swords. We know this because Kaido's scar has two equal cuts. In my opinion, current KOH Zoro is Oden level, but I believe that Oda will choose to keep KOH as a time-based power-up and simply keep making Zoro's base stronger until his base reaches Oden level, as shown by Zoro not using KOH since Wano and just using ACoC or overflowing ACoA alone.
T
Enma makes it possible to release more haki. This does not mean that Enma makes an attack stronger. Its wasted haki. Its not efficient or effective.
Zoro could perform the same level of attack with Shusui as he would with Enma.
Enma did not give Zoro an ability that he did not already possess. He already had CoC and he already had CoA.
What Enma did was make it necessary for Zoro to learn haki control and also to use CoC for normal attacks.
What Luffy learned from the Kaido fight Zoro learned from Enma in his fight vs King.
Zoro could perform the same level of attack with Shusui as he would with Enma.
Enma did not give Zoro an ability that he did not already possess. He already had CoC and he already had CoA.
What Enma did was make it necessary for Zoro to learn haki control and also to use CoC for normal attacks.
What Luffy learned from the Kaido fight Zoro learned from Enma in his fight vs King.
Again Zoros known how to flow haki since the timeskip, the problem was never the flow, it’s the quantity. That’s why Zoros arm would shrivel up when using Enma because it would take haki from just that part of him. However, to stabilize the haki, like he mentioned he needed to do against King, he started flowing the excess into the other swords making the King of Hell Style. Because Enma is pulling out the haki, but Zoros flowing it equally into all his swords so he’s not shriveling up anymore.
@Robin swan, what I'm saying is that overflowing is Enma ability, that doesnr change that just because Zoro has to overflow his ryuo on Enma, Enma flows on it on the rest. He still has to do it himself. He isnt currently strong hence overflowing, he's using 3x what Enma requires to flow on all of his blades. As far as Zoro coating himself it ryuo, the whole point of ryuo is concentrating in one area, either the blade or ones fist
@Sir Yasheen the thing about the last part is that Enma pulling out only the amount of haki it requires doesn't stop Zoro from flowing equal amounts on the others. Seems to me that's what @ImmaIvanoM were saying. Since he has to flow equal quantity on the other blades, why wouldn't Zoro be able to do that without Enma? He's already doing it.
@grey matter it's more of a can use flow that much haki on the other two blades while Enma is sheathed, regardless of it being unsustainable.
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@grey matter it's more of a can use flow that much haki on the other two blades while Enma is sheathed, regardless of it being unsustainable.
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lmao you really arguing that g4 or enma suck is not haki use?
it doesn't matter how they are used retard. both is still haki being used. But only one is at risk of dying because of too much use. And it's specifically mentioned that it's emma doing that. Not zolo. Emma is magic sword clown. Doesn't matter how much you clowns deny it.
it doesn't matter how they are used retard. both is still haki being used. But only one is at risk of dying because of too much use. And it's specifically mentioned that it's emma doing that. Not zolo. Emma is magic sword clown. Doesn't matter how much you clowns deny it.
The claim that Zoro needs Enma to unleash his haki fully is a rather absurd one. Enma simply forces Zoro to give up as much Haki as it wants. It was never implied nor stated that Enma allows its users to give that Haki to anything other than itself. It's like a vacuum, in that it takes, but it's never gives back. If you believe otherwise, post the panels, or concede on this point.
If we bring such line of thinking to it's logical conclusion, then Zoro would not only allow Enma to continue sucking Haki, but then he'd need to pull that Haki out from the blade, and then flow the Haki through the two other blades as well with the same amount of Haki, all the while STILL fighting against Enma's suck game as well, which would be the best showing of Haki control in the whole series. And now he does it casually with little to no display of struggling to do so, and in turn would make Zoro's feat of mastery Enma to such a degree way more impressive than it actually is, when in fact this is not the case.
To further demonstrate why this assumption is utterly false, I will go into the reasons within the story why this would be actually an antithesis to Zoro's "arc" in Wano, as non-substantial as it may be.
1. If Zoro needed Enma to take Haki and diverting the Haki Enma would be sucking to his other blades, then by logical deduction we can come to the conclusion that he is withholding Haki that Enma could be taking, which in turn would mean he's still limiting Enma, which goes against the conclusion Zoro reached near the end of the King fight, to simply relinquish everything he has to Enma voluntarily.
2. If he was limiting the amount of Haki he was giving to Enma, not giving his all to it, then by extension he is still limiting himself as well, when the main theme of the fight was for Zoro to realize that he shouldn't limit his Haki, which in turn means that he should limiting his will (as Haki = willpower) to simply use his dream as a means to an end for Luffy. Have any of you noticed how King paralleled Zoro, in that prior to Zoro's epiphany, they both prioritized making their captains Pirate King over anything else, limiting themselves to merely be their captains' guns, and only when Zoro came to the realization that he didn't need to prioritize Luffy's dream over his own, nor vice versa, did he coincidentally unlock Conquerors' coating as well, and proceeded to outright humiliate King in not only the fight, but also in their purpose in life, as Zoro mentally at that moment became more than what King will ever be and he himself was prior to this revelation, a servant, and renown himself as the King of Hell, who had his own dream to fulfill. That's also why he mentions both Kuina and Luffy, as he now holds his promise to Kuina to become the World's Strongest Swordsman at the same value as his promise to Luffy to make him King of the Pirates, and Enma has stopped acting up since this event has transpired.
Tl;dr: Enma simply forced Zoro to stop holding his Haki back. He didn't need Enma to do so in the 1st place as it was a mental obstacle rather than a physical one, and Enma has never shown to act on its own accord post-Wano, displaying that Zoro is willingly unleashing as much Haki as he possibly can.
If we bring such line of thinking to it's logical conclusion, then Zoro would not only allow Enma to continue sucking Haki, but then he'd need to pull that Haki out from the blade, and then flow the Haki through the two other blades as well with the same amount of Haki, all the while STILL fighting against Enma's suck game as well, which would be the best showing of Haki control in the whole series. And now he does it casually with little to no display of struggling to do so, and in turn would make Zoro's feat of mastery Enma to such a degree way more impressive than it actually is, when in fact this is not the case.
To further demonstrate why this assumption is utterly false, I will go into the reasons within the story why this would be actually an antithesis to Zoro's "arc" in Wano, as non-substantial as it may be.
1. If Zoro needed Enma to take Haki and diverting the Haki Enma would be sucking to his other blades, then by logical deduction we can come to the conclusion that he is withholding Haki that Enma could be taking, which in turn would mean he's still limiting Enma, which goes against the conclusion Zoro reached near the end of the King fight, to simply relinquish everything he has to Enma voluntarily.
2. If he was limiting the amount of Haki he was giving to Enma, not giving his all to it, then by extension he is still limiting himself as well, when the main theme of the fight was for Zoro to realize that he shouldn't limit his Haki, which in turn means that he should limiting his will (as Haki = willpower) to simply use his dream as a means to an end for Luffy. Have any of you noticed how King paralleled Zoro, in that prior to Zoro's epiphany, they both prioritized making their captains Pirate King over anything else, limiting themselves to merely be their captains' guns, and only when Zoro came to the realization that he didn't need to prioritize Luffy's dream over his own, nor vice versa, did he coincidentally unlock Conquerors' coating as well, and proceeded to outright humiliate King in not only the fight, but also in their purpose in life, as Zoro mentally at that moment became more than what King will ever be and he himself was prior to this revelation, a servant, and renown himself as the King of Hell, who had his own dream to fulfill. That's also why he mentions both Kuina and Luffy, as he now holds his promise to Kuina to become the World's Strongest Swordsman at the same value as his promise to Luffy to make him King of the Pirates, and Enma has stopped acting up since this event has transpired.
Tl;dr: Enma simply forced Zoro to stop holding his Haki back. He didn't need Enma to do so in the 1st place as it was a mental obstacle rather than a physical one, and Enma has never shown to act on its own accord post-Wano, displaying that Zoro is willingly unleashing as much Haki as he possibly can.
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