Character Discussion I understand Sanji better than anyone. Ask me about him and ill tell you the 100% truth

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Herrera95

#41
He simps Fullbody's gf. No data for allies.



Well, if you're talking about the stuff in WCI, Sanji doesn't have any character development regarding that before.

Maybe you're referring to Robin's rescue, Sanji "should've known" that he is someone with worth.

But that didn't happen for his character, Sanji doesn't have any realization about that (Robin scenario).

This is proven in Thriller Bark where he throw his life away to Kuma. He still has self sacrifical tendency and didn't think about himself (his worth). Thriller Bark is after Enies Lobby.

So, Oda didn't backpedal.
Imagine having a flashback explaining part of your childhood and around 800 chapters to still not have a character development... LOL!

I never refered to Robin's rescue. I see no problem with it. It was a good development for both him and Robin.

You just can't defend WCI, Wano and Egghead where Sanji's character got completely destroyed.
 
#42
Imagine having a flashback explaining part of your childhood and around 800 chapters to still not have a character development... LOL!

I never refered to Robin's rescue. I see no problem with it. It was a good development for both him and Robin.

You just can't defend WCI, Wano and Egghead where Sanji's character got completely destroyed.
Well, maybe you have your own definition about character development. Just because you don't like it, or not fulfill you expectation, doesn't mean that a character doesn't have a character development.

This only means that a part of character got expanded & explained. Having more flashback about some part of a character is already a character development. It made readers to know more about them.

Are you referring to the his perverted dreams about invisibility? If anything this is a character development, because ages ago he had a dream and that dream got fulfilled recently.

Or are you referring to his family?
Again, that's a good character development, because despite his childhood trauma & recent problems they gave Sanji, Sanji ultimately decided to save them.

Either way, it doesn't matter if you think his character got destroyed or not. I'm here to explain stuff about Sanji, not to defend Oda and his action toward Sanji's character.
 
#44
Imagine having a flashback explaining part of your childhood and around 800 chapters to still not have a character development... LOL!

I never refered to Robin's rescue. I see no problem with it. It was a good development for both him and Robin.

You just can't defend WCI, Wano and Egghead where Sanji's character got completely destroyed.
What he do in egghead
 
H

Herrera95

#45
Chapter 1091 dude. He was becoming dog Stussy and now he just saw her almost dying to Lucci and had no reaction.

People are theoryzing about being Devon but I hardly doubt it. Why would Devon care to trap Kaku? It was Sanji indeed. Being smart but heartless special towards a woman.
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Well, maybe you have your own definition about character development. Just because you don't like it, or not fulfill you expectation, doesn't mean that a character doesn't have a character development.

This only means that a part of character got expanded & explained. Having more flashback about some part of a character is already a character development. It made readers to know more about them.

Are you referring to the his perverted dreams about invisibility? If anything this is a character development, because ages ago he had a dream and that dream got fulfilled recently.

Or are you referring to his family?
Again, that's a good character development, because despite his childhood trauma & recent problems they gave Sanji, Sanji ultimately decided to save them.

Either way, it doesn't matter if you think his character got destroyed or not. I'm here to explain stuff about Sanji, not to defend Oda and his action toward Sanji's character.
How suddenly I'm the one saying Sanji not had character development? You are the one saying he didn't had any until WCI. I'm saying that he had. By the way I'm saying WCI is not character development but destroying his character. Sanji wasn't acting like he used to. He makes no fucking sense the entire arc.

Having flashbacks is not necessarily character development. Sanji develoment was at Baratie. WCI just explained how he got there. Nothing there makes any connection of how Sanji is today except how he left from North Blue to East Blue.

How the hell you came to the conclusion I'm tlaking about his perverted dreams about invisibility? I already said everything that went wrong with Sanji in those latest arcs but you keep bringing all that nonsense only for you have an argument. And no this is not character development, LOL! In fact all the perviness of Sanji is destroying his initial characterization of being a gentleman.

Yet you are defending Oda and his horrible choices that destroying Sanji as a character.
 
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#47
Did you watch the live action?
Yes, Taz did pretty well.

Why didn't he ever learn rankyaku?
For balance purposes.

Oda didn't give flying ability to Zoro, so he didn't give Rankyaku (which is too similar to Zoro's air slash) to Sanji.

Also Sanji's intended weakness is him not having ranged attack.

Chapter 1091 dude. He was becoming dog Stussy and now he just saw her almost dying to Lucci and had no reaction.

People are theoryzing about being Devon but I hardly doubt it. Why would Devon care to trap Kaku? It was Sanji indeed. Being smart but heartless special towards a woman.
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How suddenly I'm the one saying Sanji not had character development? You are the one saying he didn't had any until WCI. I'm saying that he had. By the way I'm saying WCI is not character development but destroying his character. Sanji wasn't acting like he used to. He makes no fucking sense the entire arc.

Having flashbacks is not necessarily character development. Sanji develoment was at Baratie. WCI just explained how he got there. Nothing there makes any connection of how Sanji is today except how he left from North Blue to East Blue.

How the hell you came to the conclusion I'm tlaking about his perverted dreams about invisibility? I already said everything that went wrong with Sanji in those latest arcs but you keep bringing all that nonsense only for you have an argument. And no this is not character development, LOL! In fact all the perviness of Sanji is destroying his initial characterization of being a gentleman.

Yet you are defending Oda and his horrible choices that destroying Sanji as a character.
1. I didn't say no char dev at all, but only on that specific topic (Sanji feeling worthless).

His self-sacrifical tendency is always there. So if people said that Sanji's choice (to take the burden himself) is weird / doesn't fit, it's not, he's staying true to his old trait.

2. Any addition to a character that expand their details is character development.

It's not just one big change. For example his second/extended flashback explained the origin about his liking to cooking & attitude towards women.

A small thing is enough. For example we know that Sanji is afraid of spider. This alone already means he is a better developed character than a Sanji who wasn't given any details.

3. Egghead topic

So with that panel you think Sanji now doesn't care about woman?

Do you conveniently forget a few chapters ago when Sanji quickly come to rescue Nami who was in another floor?

If Oda
1. gave him more panels, maybe we will get a reaction shot.
2. gave Lucci to Sanji, maybe we will get him blasting Lucci for what he did.

Sanji rescuing Nami itself is already a counter to your question. Much less giving Sanji a reaction panel to Stussy, which is useless & redundant when the pacing of situation is intended to heat up.

This chapter's goal is to show a dire situation and clashes start happening, a Sanji simp reaction is useless and will break the atmosphere.
 
#48
Yes, Taz did pretty well.



For balance purposes.

Oda didn't give flying ability to Zoro, so he didn't give Rankyaku (which is too similar to Zoro's air slash) to Sanji.

Also Sanji's intended weakness is him not having ranged attack.



1. I didn't say no char dev at all, but only on that specific topic (Sanji feeling worthless).

His self-sacrifical tendency is always there. So if people said that Sanji's choice (to take the burden himself) is weird / doesn't fit, it's not, he's staying true to his old trait.

2. Any addition to a character that expand their details is character development.

It's not just one big change. For example his second/extended flashback explained the origin about his liking to cooking & attitude towards women.

A small thing is enough. For example we know that Sanji is afraid of spider. This alone already means he is a better developed character than a Sanji who wasn't given any details.

3. Egghead topic

So with that panel you think Sanji now doesn't care about woman?

Do you conveniently forget a few chapters ago when Sanji quickly come to rescue Nami who was in another floor?

If Oda
1. gave him more panels, maybe we will get a reaction shot.
2. gave Lucci to Sanji, maybe we will get him blasting Lucci for what he did.

Sanji rescuing Nami itself is already a counter to your question. Much less giving Sanji a reaction panel to Stussy, which is useless & redundant when the pacing of situation is intended to heat up.

This chapter's goal is to show a dire situation and clashes start happening, a Sanji simp reaction is useless and will break the atmosphere.
I used to think the same, but Oda gave Zoro fire with Foxfire style and some air mobility with Clear Lance. Sanji, on the other hand, got nothing, despite the fact that Sanji having rankyaku makes more sense than Zoro using fire or propelling himself in air.
 
H

Herrera95

#49
1. I didn't say no char dev at all, but only on that specific topic (Sanji feeling worthless).

His self-sacrifical tendency is always there. So if people said that Sanji's choice (to take the burden himself) is weird / doesn't fit, it's not, he's staying true to his old trait.

2. Any addition to a character that expand their details is character development.

It's not just one big change. For example his second/extended flashback explained the origin about his liking to cooking & attitude towards women.

A small thing is enough. For example we know that Sanji is afraid of spider. This alone already means he is a better developed character than a Sanji who wasn't given any details.

3. Egghead topic

So with that panel you think Sanji now doesn't care about woman?

Do you conveniently forget a few chapters ago when Sanji quickly come to rescue Nami who was in another floor?

If Oda
1. gave him more panels, maybe we will get a reaction shot.
2. gave Lucci to Sanji, maybe we will get him blasting Lucci for what he did.

Sanji rescuing Nami itself is already a counter to your question. Much less giving Sanji a reaction panel to Stussy, which is useless & redundant when the pacing of situation is intended to heat up.

This chapter's goal is to show a dire situation and clashes start happening, a Sanji simp reaction is useless and will break the atmosphere.
1 - Again you making up things I never said only to have an argument

2 - No it is not. If your additional information goes against your previous information this is not a development. LOL. His second flashback didn't explained a shit about his liking of cooking and attitude towards woman. In the end he just like to cook because he likes. Nothing deeper here. And his attitude towards woman was taught by Zeff. He was even fine with beating his own sister to defend himself or to free himself. We had a lot of details about Sanji already. I don't recall him being afraid of spiders specially because I don't recall he ever bringing that up in current time. So like I said this is not a development.

3 - Not saying he doesn't care about woman now. But in this particular situation he showed that he doesn't. Which is very weird giving how intense he is about it and specially about Stussy.

Thanks for bringing Sanji saving Nami this just reinforces my point that in that particular scene he didn't acted like he should.

Again you are creating your own words to have an argument. Sanji doesn't have to simp towards Stussy. Lol. He just need to get enraged with Lucci hurting her or try to protect her. He doesn't even need to interact with Stussy or Lucci but when he was trapping Kaku if he said anything about that would already be enough. Like "I can't afford another of you hurting a lady" or something on those lines. We wouldn't even having this conversation.
 
#50
I used to think the same, but Oda gave Zoro fire with Foxfire style and some air mobility with Clear Lance. Sanji, on the other hand, got nothing, despite the fact that Sanji having rankyaku makes more sense than Zoro using fire or propelling himself in air.
Well, Sanji can also do some good swordsmanship like Zoro.
His style of precision even is more unique than most swordsman who is just strength based (Mihawk Zoro) or speed based (Brook).

Sanji has also been seen advising Luffy like Zoro.
Even he's actually the first one who correct Luffy during W7 Usopp's scene.

So the balancing is also kinda still apply.

1 - Again you making up things I never said only to have an argument

2 - No it is not. If your additional information goes against your previous information this is not a development. LOL. His second flashback didn't explained a shit about his liking of cooking and attitude towards woman. In the end he just like to cook because he likes. Nothing deeper here. And his attitude towards woman was taught by Zeff. He was even fine with beating his own sister to defend himself or to free himself. We had a lot of details about Sanji already. I don't recall him being afraid of spiders specially because I don't recall he ever bringing that up in current time. So like I said this is not a development.

3 - Not saying he doesn't care about woman now. But in this particular situation he showed that he doesn't. Which is very weird giving how intense he is about it and specially about Stussy.

Thanks for bringing Sanji saving Nami this just reinforces my point that in that particular scene he didn't acted like he should.

Again you are creating your own words to have an argument. Sanji doesn't have to simp towards Stussy. Lol. He just need to get enraged with Lucci hurting her or try to protect her. He doesn't even need to interact with Stussy or Lucci but when he was trapping Kaku if he said anything about that would already be enough. Like "I can't afford another of you hurting a lady" or something on those lines. We wouldn't even having this conversation.
1. That's because you started it without giving a clear topic on why Oda destroyed Sanji's character :

Why Sanji character was destroyed at WCI, again at Wano and now once more at Egghead?
There's so many possible aspects and you didn't say which one, that's why I had to guess one by one (Robin, invis, then WCI). I didn't making things up for you, but for me.

2. Well, then, that's on you. Just the fact that Oda make WCI about Sanji is already a character development for him.
We know the names of his families, kingdom, full name? Char dev
We know what happened to his mum? Char dev
We know about iron mask? Char dev
We know why Sanji is sensitive about Usopp feeling useless? Char dev
Just because you missed it or ignore it, doesn't mean it's not there.

3. I already gave a reasonable explanation : he got minimal panels/lines and the situation doesn't need him to do/say that.
Even his line is used to tell us that Kaku is being left out / ignored by Lucci. Not mention the other line is him asking a woman's permission to use her stuff.
You only want to see & accept one side of something is entirely on you.

The second thing is about redundancy. There is no need to spell things out when it's already obvious. If you get bothered by that one scene so much, when it doesn't actually mean what you want it to be, then it's just you who wants to find fault.
If that's the case, there's endless thing you can find fault on, like why Sanji doesn't comment on Beast Pirates wasting food during the raid for example.
 
#52
Well, Sanji can also do some good swordsmanship like Zoro.
His style of precision even is more unique than most swordsman who is just strength based (Mihawk Zoro) or speed based (Brook).

Sanji has also been seen advising Luffy like Zoro.
Even he's actually the first one who correct Luffy during W7 Usopp's scene.

So the balancing is also kinda still apply.



1. That's because you started it without giving a clear topic on why Oda destroyed Sanji's character :



There's so many possible aspects and you didn't say which one, that's why I had to guess one by one (Robin, invis, then WCI). I didn't making things up for you, but for me.

2. Well, then, that's on you. Just the fact that Oda make WCI about Sanji is already a character development for him.
We know the names of his families, kingdom, full name? Char dev
We know what happened to his mum? Char dev
We know about iron mask? Char dev
We know why Sanji is sensitive about Usopp feeling useless? Char dev
Just because you missed it or ignore it, doesn't mean it's not there.

3. I already gave a reasonable explanation : he got minimal panels/lines and the situation doesn't need him to do/say that.
Even his line is used to tell us that Kaku is being left out / ignored by Lucci. Not mention the other line is him asking a woman's permission to use her stuff.
You only want to see & accept one side of something is entirely on you.

The second thing is about redundancy. There is no need to spell things out when it's already obvious. If you get bothered by that one scene so much, when it doesn't actually mean what you want it to be, then it's just you who wants to find fault.
If that's the case, there's endless thing you can find fault on, like why Sanji doesn't comment on Beast Pirates wasting food during the raid for example.
Sanji's cutting skills are not used in battle. Fair enough on the advice part, but that's also not related to fighting. Zoro gave both Luffy and Zoro flight and fire. He should give him rankyaku. Sigh.
 
#53
Explain Baratie arc
It's a place that foreshadow the Wings' future.
Zoro's opponent is a WSS, and he will be a WSS.
Sanji's opponent is Pearl, a defensive type man who can lit himself on fire.

Sanji's cutting skills are not used in battle. Fair enough on the advice part, but that's also not related to fighting. Zoro gave both Luffy and Zoro flight and fire. He should give him rankyaku. Sigh.
Well, Oda should give it to him indeed.

However if he doesn't, it actually didn't affect anything :
- Sanji himself can move faster than any projectile he may shoot.
- Sanji's attack type is blunt, whereas Rankyaku is cutting. Blunt for Sanji, cutting for Zoro.
 
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