Character Discussion Is Blackbeard The Sasuke of One Piece?

[park_min young]

Yeah. Which makes it even more hilariously ballsy.

He didn't even name the show something that'd be in-line with dual-protagonist story to set expectations. Instead he named it Naruto then proceeded to make it a dual-MC story with Naruto revolving around Sasuke like Killua revolves around Gon lol



In certain ways, maybe. But as an overall character, not really...

Sasuke is practically THE main character of Naruto alongside Naruto himself. The entire story is a two-faced narrative and for the entirety of Part II we see PoV shifts with dedicated dozens of chapters to both of them. Except difference being Sasuke's story is his own and propels without Naruto, meanwhile Naruto reacts to and dances around Sasuke's a lot.

I don't think Gojo has that. In terms of being presented as this badass and strong and perhaps most epic character of the show? Sure Gojo's there. But that ain't really a ballsy thing to do or anything out of ordinary. There are many shows in Shonen where there's this one character who is not the MC but instead an older, mentor figure and ends up being THE shit for literally entire story.

And that's not even getting into the way Kishi treated Sasuke... all that focus, all that emphasis and then even a happy ending.

On a character level, I agree that Sasuke is indeed as vital as Naruto. He’s a foil, and an indispensable component to Naruto’s own growth. My main argument is how I’ve never seen a character as narratively significant to his own show as Gojo is, arguably even more than the MC. I’ve already said it but he’s the gravity within JJK itself, a force that everyone has to account for. Gojo isn’t just a mentor, he’s the gravity of the story, the axis around which everything else spins.

The two biggest turning points in the plot directly involve him: the moment he’s sealed, which instantly propels the villains’ plans forward, and the moment he’s released, which immediately reshapes the stakes of the story again. Gojo doesn’t serve as Yuji’s emotional anchor in the way Sasuke does for Naruto, but that’s partly because Yuji himself has been given relatively little character development lol… as unfortunate as that sounds. Instead, Gojo carries the story’s structural weight and central conflict, which is to ultimately defeat Sukuna.

The final showdown itself begins with Gojo and ends with Yuji, which is symbolic of their roles in the story. Gojo is the one who introduces Yuji to the Jujutsu world, and sets him on this path. Gojo’s presence (or absence) upstarts and dictates the flow of events plus the stakes of the story itself. Yuji delivers the finishing blow to Sukuna, bringing everything to a close.

 

[Shanal]

On a character level, I agree that Sasuke is indeed as vital as Naruto. He’s a foil, and an indispensable component to Naruto’s own growth. My main argument is how I’ve never seen a character as narratively significant to his own show as Gojo is, arguably even more than the MC. I’ve already said it but he’s the gravity within JJK itself, a force that everyone has to account for. Gojo isn’t just a mentor, he’s the gravity of the story, the axis around which everything else spins.

The two biggest turning points in the plot directly involve him: the moment he’s sealed, which instantly propels the villains’ plans forward, and the moment he’s released, which immediately reshapes the stakes of the story again. Gojo doesn’t serve as Yuji’s emotional anchor in the way Sasuke does for Naruto, but that’s partly because Yuji himself has been given relatively little character development lol… as unfortunate as that sounds. Instead, Gojo carries the story’s structural weight and central conflict, which is to ultimately defeat Sukuna.

The final showdown itself begins with Gojo and ends with Yuji, which is symbolic of their roles in the story. Gojo is the one who introduces Yuji to the Jujutsu world, and sets him on this path. Gojo’s presence (or absence) upstarts and dictates the flow of events plus the stakes of the story itself. Yuji delivers the finishing blow to Sukuna, bringing everything to a close.

I've not read JJK tbh, so I can't comment much on it. Though what you're describing him as sounds relatively unique, yeah.

But I was more talking about Kishi's handling of Sasuke anyway. To create a series called 'Naruto' then a rival character in that series. And then decide, "Fuck it, you know what? This is going to be a dual-MC story" regarding the rival character.

And then make this co-protagonist go rogue and oppose the MC.

And then make the MC revolve around this dude instead of the other way around (like how it usually is. Vegeta revolves around Goku. Killua around Gon, etc) all while Sasuke keeps up pace in both power and narrative... if not outright being ahead for most of the series.

And on top of that, just say fuck it and give him a happy ending, and on the side have him end up with the main female lead whom MC has been crushing on since beginning, while MC ends up with the sidest of side chars. And MC became Hokage? Well fuck it, let's invent something called "Sasaukage" and have Sasuke be that because Kishi is like "lol"

The entire stunt is bloody crazy. Creating a character like Gojo as you describe is cool and fun but it isn't particularly ballsy. What Kishimoto did had so, so many people enraged for years and decades and Kishi didn't give a flying fuck lol

If Sasuke was a villain with this much focus and narrative instead of outright co-MC, then it'd be ok. Or if he wasn't a rival to Naruto, maybe it'd not been so crazy. Or if after his descent he just ended up dying for redemption, then maybe it'd have softened the blow. Or many other similar things but nope, Kishi just gave Sasuke everything there was to give.

I don't think that kind of stunt has been pulled in Shonen. Or even anime in general.

 

[Ven437]

I've not read JJK tbh, so I can't comment much on it. Though what you're describing him as sounds relatively unique, yeah.

But I was more talking about Kishi's handling of Sasuke anyway. To create a series called 'Naruto' then a rival character in that series. And then decide, "Fuck it, you know what? This is going to be a dual-MC story" regarding the rival character.

And then make this co-protagonist go rogue and oppose the MC.

And then make the MC revolve around this dude instead of the other way around (like how it usually is. Vegeta revolves around Goku. Killua around Gon, etc) all while Sasuke keeps up pace in both power and narrative... if not outright being ahead for most of the series.

And on top of that, just say fuck it and give him a happy ending, and on the side have him end up with the main female lead whom MC has been crushing on since beginning, while MC ends up with the sidest of side chars. And MC became Hokage? Well fuck it, let's invent something called "Sasaukage" and have Sasuke be that because Kishi is like "lol"

The entire stunt is bloody crazy. Creating a character like Gojo as you describe is cool and fun but it isn't particularly ballsy. What Kishimoto did had so, so many people enraged for years and decades and Kishi didn't give a flying fuck lol

If Sasuke was a villain with this much focus and narrative instead of outright co-MC, then it'd be ok. Or if he wasn't a rival to Naruto, maybe it'd not been so crazy. Or if after his descent he just ended up dying for redemption, then maybe it'd have softened the blow. Or many other similar things but nope, Kishi just gave Sasuke everything there was to give.

I don't think that kind of stunt has been pulled in Shonen. Or even anime in general.

Having read both when both were being serialized

I can say that Gojo is far more important and groundbreaking to the story than sasuke was

Naruto had multiple char focuses and while sasuke did partially move the plot he was often overshadowed by multiple chars like itachi, kakashi, obito, madara etc. Gojo carried the plot on his back, he pulled almost every string on the good side to get their lives kickstarted and was 99% of their fighting force

Sasuke absence from the war wasn't game changing like when everybody pooled in their blood sweat and tears to free gojo

Gojo was also given everything, more than the mc himself in fact. Complete backstory, char depth, whole plot revolving around him, random annoying inserts after his death explaining every single shit relevant to taking down the big bad

Like imagine if nardo had adult sasuke from the start as his sensei and got sealed. Every konoha ninja would move to save him and every other village would move to prevent that. 4th great ninja war wouldnt need international terrorist to kick off. Thats how essential gojo was as the 2nd mc of the series

 

[Shanal]

overshadowed by chars like itachi, kakashi, obito, madara etc.

I disagree! Unless you're not getting the essence of what I'm saying

Chars like Itachi, Obito and Madara were very relevant to the narrative of Naruto and in moving the plot. They moved it more than Naruto and Sasuke, even.

But they were just secondary characters or antagonists and were treated as such, no matter how plot impacting.

The shit Kishi pulled with Sasuke was unheard of, however. Making him essentially a co-MC who was a step ahead of titular MC in almost every single aspect for vast majority of the show, on top of standing OPPOSITE of the titular MC rather than in support, on top of having the titular character revolve around him like a lost puppy.

It is crazy.

Like imagine if Goku obsessed over and revolved around Vegeta and wanted to surpass Vegeta or be his friend or make him better and sobbed on the ground for him for 60% of DB while Vegeta didn't give a fuck, pushed as much plot, got separate screen-time, and most his goals were unrelated to Goku. On top of actually being > Goku for most of the series while the latter played catch-up.

That puts it into perspective just how insane it was.

Because something like that is going to cause massive outrage, and Kishi didn't give a shit lol.

Like imagine if nardo had adult sasuke from the start as his sensei and got sealed. Every konoha ninja would move to save him and every other village would move to prevent that. 4th great ninja war wouldnt need international terrorist to kick off. Thats how essential gojo was as the 2nd mc of the series

The way Gojo is developed is very unique from what you and park_min said, but it's still safe.

I will agree he's far more impacting to the plot though. And definitely given far more gifts and favoritism by author than any other char I know. Though done in a safe manner from how I see it.

 

[Ven437]

I disagree! Unless you're not getting the essence of what I'm saying

Chars like Itachi, Obito and Madara were very relevant to the narrative of Naruto and in moving the plot. They moved it more than Naruto and Sasuke, even.

But they were just secondary characters or antagonists and were treated as such, no matter how plot impacting.

The shit Kishi pulled with Sasuke was unheard of, however. Making him essentially a co-MC who was a step ahead of titular MC in almost every single aspect for vast majority of the show, on top of standing OPPOSITE of the titular MC rather than in support, on top of having the titular character revolve around him like a lost puppy.

It is crazy.

Like imagine if Goku obsessed over and revolved around Vegeta and wanted to surpass Vegeta or be his friend or make him better and sobbed on the ground for him for 60% of DB while Vegeta didn't give a fuck, pushed as much plot, got separate screen-time, and most his goals were unrelated to Goku. On top of actually being > Goku for most of the series while the latter played catch-up.

That puts it into perspective just how insane it was.

Because something like that is going to cause massive outrage, and Kishi didn't give a shit lol.

The way Gojo is developed is very unique from what you and park_min said, but it's still safe.

Well I guess in the end sauce and gojo had different roles

One grew alongside the mc the other was his mentor. In both their roles they went 200% above and beyond

I do agree naruto obsession with sauce was unheard of despite surpassing him early on and having completely diff goals by end of series

I guess what Im trying to say. I feel like if sauce was taken out of the story then naruto can continue to move and arguably one could see itachi or kakashi take a much larger role as the dojutsu users needed to take kaguya down (indra genes assumed to pass on)

Take gojo out of jjk and literally nothing good happens. Itd lose 80% of its appeal and 95% of its main plot

 

[BattalGazi]

I wonder what DF Blackbeard can steal for sharingan.

 

[MonsterKaido]

Gojo was definitely very relevant in JJK. In general his impact is felt the most where simply his existence changed the dynamics of JJK world.

Sasuke does have more relevance moving the story forward but gojo has more impact in his word.

 

[Shanal]

Well I guess in the end sauce and gojo had different roles

One grew alongside the mc the other was his mentor. In both their roles they went 200% above and beyond

I do agree naruto obsession with sauce was unheard of despite surpassing him early on and having completely diff goals by end of series

I guess what Im trying to say. I feel like if sauce was taken out of the story then naruto can continue to move and arguably one could see itachi or kakashi take a much larger role as the dojutsu users needed to take kaguya down (indra genes assumed to pass on)

Take gojo out of jjk and literally nothing good happens. Itd lose 80% of its appeal and 95% of its main plot

Yup, different roles altogether.

Also Naruto did surpass him once a while, but the moments were very brief and Sasuke returned to the top for vast majority of the series. It was only after Kurama and Naruto bonded that Naruto finally pulled ahead and remained that way until EoS.

And even then Kishi went ahead and made them equal for the epilogue/future.

Tbh being as strong/stronger than MC while being deuteragonist isn't THAT huge an issue. Killua is great example of that. It's just that while combined with all the other stuff. Being a Sasuke fan was as hilariously great as it was annoying; because you would always be eating, yet the fact he's treated like this at expense of MC so much also got him a lot of hate from community.

 

[zenox]

Well, we’re talking about narrative significance. Gojo’s very existence reshapes how sorcerers and cursed spirits move, forcing them to account for him at every turn. Long before Yuji even entered the Jujutsu story, Gojo’s presence was already monumental.

i'll say kenjaku is more influential in this category , he is the reason why jjk world is so chaotic .

yes, gojo's strength was so formidable that cursed users had to go into hiding and cursed spirits trained themselves to be stronger but kenjaku has been pulling the strings for A LOT of stuff.

And since the central conflict revolves around eliminating Sukuna, Yuji still doesn’t surpass Gojo in sheer narrative weight since he really didn’t overshadow Gojo’s contributions in that department either.

he actually does , yuji was finally able to end the curse known as sukuna .
gojo did more damage physically but yuji did more spiritually and in context of the theme of this story.


gojo wanted to teach sukuna abt love but he failed

sukuna's stance didnt change until he met itadori-

yuji is the one who did the finishing blow to the cycle of curses

the manga also started cuz he ate sukuna's finger