Is homelander the best villain in recent history?
- Thread starter soheilhazrat
- Start date
Not even close.
Yeah sure, The Boys has a lot of hype right now but there's a lot of better villains in Manga alone. Look no further than Johann Liebert from Monster or Griffith from Berserk.
Heck, even in TV shows there's a few I can think of off the top of my head e.g.
Breaking Bad Universe - Walt (if you consider him a villain rather than an anti hero), Lalo and Gus > Homelander
Sherlock (BBC) - Moriarty
Dexter - Trinity Killer
Just a couple of examples
Even within the Boys Homelander isn't the best villain; Edgar is. But the greatest TV Villain in recent times imo is Paul Specter from a show called 'The Fall' or 'Arby' from Utopia. Homelander's portrayal in the comics is better than the show too. Even amongst the same genre, Omni-man is probably the most well written villain in a TV show
Agreed. There isn't anything mysterious about him - we know how he works and why he does what he does. The most effective villains usually do two things:
1. Foil for the protagonist, often with similar motivations and goals, this is because familiarity with a villain makes the idea of them being relatable more scary/detestable - Homelander is nowhere near an effective foil for Hughie
2. Cannot be read like an open book, at least not until the conclusion of their arc - a good villain drives a story forward. To do this, they need to be unpredictable (but believable) to a certain degree. Homelander is too simple a character
In the Boys, Edgar and A-Train (S1 and early S2) and Stillwell (S1) were better villains than Homelander. Black Noir is great for point no. 2 but not point no. 1. I don't think The Boys has any particular standout villains.
Yeah sure, The Boys has a lot of hype right now but there's a lot of better villains in Manga alone. Look no further than Johann Liebert from Monster or Griffith from Berserk.
Heck, even in TV shows there's a few I can think of off the top of my head e.g.
Breaking Bad Universe - Walt (if you consider him a villain rather than an anti hero), Lalo and Gus > Homelander
Sherlock (BBC) - Moriarty
Dexter - Trinity Killer
Just a couple of examples
Even within the Boys Homelander isn't the best villain; Edgar is. But the greatest TV Villain in recent times imo is Paul Specter from a show called 'The Fall' or 'Arby' from Utopia. Homelander's portrayal in the comics is better than the show too. Even amongst the same genre, Omni-man is probably the most well written villain in a TV show
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Agreed. There isn't anything mysterious about him - we know how he works and why he does what he does. The most effective villains usually do two things:
1. Foil for the protagonist, often with similar motivations and goals, this is because familiarity with a villain makes the idea of them being relatable more scary/detestable - Homelander is nowhere near an effective foil for Hughie
2. Cannot be read like an open book, at least not until the conclusion of their arc - a good villain drives a story forward. To do this, they need to be unpredictable (but believable) to a certain degree. Homelander is too simple a character
In the Boys, Edgar and A-Train (S1 and early S2) and Stillwell (S1) were better villains than Homelander. Black Noir is great for point no. 2 but not point no. 1. I don't think The Boys has any particular standout villains.
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Even if we cut it to 2 years to fit your definition:
Griffith is in an ongoing series
Lalo and Gus are in an ongoing series and it is confirmed Walt will make some appearances in Better Call Saul Season 6 pt 2.
Edgar/BN are literally in the exact same story as Homelander
Invincible (where Omni-man comes from) came out in 2021 and has more seasons in the works
I consider recent as different depending on the medium; depends on how much stuff can be mass produced. 'Recent' has a shorter span in music compared to TV for example. For me a 'recent' tv show is circa 10 years, movies probably the same, but for Manga and comics it's about 20-25 years. Dexter and The Fall only ended in 2013 which isn't that long ago, for example.
All but 2 of the names come from the last decade.
Griffith is in an ongoing series
Lalo and Gus are in an ongoing series and it is confirmed Walt will make some appearances in Better Call Saul Season 6 pt 2.
Edgar/BN are literally in the exact same story as Homelander
Invincible (where Omni-man comes from) came out in 2021 and has more seasons in the works
I consider recent as different depending on the medium; depends on how much stuff can be mass produced. 'Recent' has a shorter span in music compared to TV for example. For me a 'recent' tv show is circa 10 years, movies probably the same, but for Manga and comics it's about 20-25 years. Dexter and The Fall only ended in 2013 which isn't that long ago, for example.
All but 2 of the names come from the last decade.
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Where is 'Live Action' within OP quoted below?
Griffith's most recent appearance in new Media was June 20th 2022. IDGAF about his conceptualisation; that isn't relevant. You only said 2 year cutoff, no other rules but now you're making them to save face because you were objectively wrong about my list.
Edgar is fascinating. I love when a 'weak' character can keep a strong or completely overpowered character in check. It's the equivalent of Buggy becoming a Yonko or something but less funny.
What's less unique about Omni-Man? Fact of the matter is Homelander is when you cross the cosmetics and abilities of Superman/Captain America with the role of Omni-Man. Omni-Man is a tormented character, stuck between his job and prescribed role in conquering the planet and yet also loving his family in spite of seeing humans as ants. Unlike homelander where it's debatable if he's earths greatest hero, Omni-man undisputably is within his universe and unlike Homelander, Omni-man resents the role but is forced to embrace it for his mission. His motivations are entirely unclear for the entire first season till the end; also being the father of the main character makes the relationship a far more interesting aspect of Omni-man. Homelander doesn't have any of that going for him.
Lastly the perceived threat of Omni-man is much greater than Homelander. They both operate in a universe where the strongest people are street level fighters (with a few exceptions but they don't get much stronger than that - not true for what will be Invincible Season 2 but that's not happened yet but I digress). Omni-man 5v1d the only people who might have been above street-level and took out the only threats to his existence. Homelander however, would probably be taken out by the right combination of 3 heroes or so; was not much stronger than Soldier Boy (if at all) and to top it off if they stay truthful to the comics, Black Noir is superior to Homelander. The perceived threat is important for a main villain. Homelander's a perceived threat to the main characters, but he is not a global threat. He's barely much more powerful than the rest of Earths heroes; Omni-Man has feats that put him on moon-busting level. They are totally different.
Regardless - Uniqueness is not important to a villain. Most villains can fall into four categories that writers typically use at least 1 example of each in their story in order to diversify the cast without making villain presence too much for compelling protagonist stories. Homelander falls short of excellence because he and Hughie do not have either similar motivations or similar end-goals. Not because he is not 'unique'. His entire purpose is to satirise Superman.
Griffith's most recent appearance in new Media was June 20th 2022. IDGAF about his conceptualisation; that isn't relevant. You only said 2 year cutoff, no other rules but now you're making them to save face because you were objectively wrong about my list.
Edgar is fascinating. I love when a 'weak' character can keep a strong or completely overpowered character in check. It's the equivalent of Buggy becoming a Yonko or something but less funny.
What's less unique about Omni-Man? Fact of the matter is Homelander is when you cross the cosmetics and abilities of Superman/Captain America with the role of Omni-Man. Omni-Man is a tormented character, stuck between his job and prescribed role in conquering the planet and yet also loving his family in spite of seeing humans as ants. Unlike homelander where it's debatable if he's earths greatest hero, Omni-man undisputably is within his universe and unlike Homelander, Omni-man resents the role but is forced to embrace it for his mission. His motivations are entirely unclear for the entire first season till the end; also being the father of the main character makes the relationship a far more interesting aspect of Omni-man. Homelander doesn't have any of that going for him.
Lastly the perceived threat of Omni-man is much greater than Homelander. They both operate in a universe where the strongest people are street level fighters (with a few exceptions but they don't get much stronger than that - not true for what will be Invincible Season 2 but that's not happened yet but I digress). Omni-man 5v1d the only people who might have been above street-level and took out the only threats to his existence. Homelander however, would probably be taken out by the right combination of 3 heroes or so; was not much stronger than Soldier Boy (if at all) and to top it off if they stay truthful to the comics, Black Noir is superior to Homelander. The perceived threat is important for a main villain. Homelander's a perceived threat to the main characters, but he is not a global threat. He's barely much more powerful than the rest of Earths heroes; Omni-Man has feats that put him on moon-busting level. They are totally different.
Regardless - Uniqueness is not important to a villain. Most villains can fall into four categories that writers typically use at least 1 example of each in their story in order to diversify the cast without making villain presence too much for compelling protagonist stories. Homelander falls short of excellence because he and Hughie do not have either similar motivations or similar end-goals. Not because he is not 'unique'. His entire purpose is to satirise Superman.
