General & Others Is Kanjuro going to kidnap Momonosuke?
- Thread starter ImmaIvanoM
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But then Kanjuro wouldve failed Orochi's mission. The chapter begins with kaido and Orochi agreeing to let these people live until kaido can ask them something, we have no indication that Kanjuro was told to kill momo just in case he can't bring him. And kanjuro himself said he doesn't have ill will towards anyone so he would just kill momo for the same of spitefulness since has no emotions to be spiteful at all
If he loses momo there's still a chance that Kaido and company can still find a way of kidnapping momo. If he kills momo he's fucked over kaido for no reason.
I mean it's possible that he can BLUFF that he will kill momo to scare the alliance into letting him go since they don't know him well enough to tell he'll probably not kill momo anyway.
The problem is that why would the alliance think letting this one man escape with Momo is a better alternative to supposedly making a rescue mission for Momo deep in enemy territory. Like at this very point, he's one man standing right in front of them who has momo while if they let him leave, momo will be in the hands of two yonkou deep into Onigashima. I can't imagine the second option is better
I mean it's possible that he can BLUFF that he will kill momo to scare the alliance into letting him go since they don't know him well enough to tell he'll probably not kill momo anyway.
The problem is that why would the alliance think letting this one man escape with Momo is a better alternative to supposedly making a rescue mission for Momo deep in enemy territory. Like at this very point, he's one man standing right in front of them who has momo while if they let him leave, momo will be in the hands of two yonkou deep into Onigashima. I can't imagine the second option is better
I'm not looking at this from Kaido or the alliance's perspective, just Kanjuro. His stage play is over, his deception is out now. The dude is looking for a hill to die on and if anyone backs him into a corner he might just find a way to self destruct. This is all speculation of course, but Kanjuro really dug a hole for himself. Even if he gets back to Orochi successfully what future does he have now? His life was a lie. It would have been better to kidnap Momo in secret and not have let his secret out. He could have easily done that with his df powers. So I kind of think Kanjuro wants to die at this point. Next chapter will tell I guess.
Also while Kaido has an inquiry he wants to pursue, I don't think he really cares about Momo too much. He tried to kill the kid before in the flashback. Plus if the translation is correct it has Kaido saying "don't kill them" meaning Kinemon and all the other Kozuki retainers who went forward in time.
Also while Kaido has an inquiry he wants to pursue, I don't think he really cares about Momo too much. He tried to kill the kid before in the flashback. Plus if the translation is correct it has Kaido saying "don't kill them" meaning Kinemon and all the other Kozuki retainers who went forward in time.
Well yeah that's fine. From what we got of him he is very fine risking his life and dying for the mission.
My question is why would that involve actually killing momo though? He said he doesn't have actual anger or malice towards any of these people. Killing momo fucks over both kaido and the alliance. So why would he kill momo? Just to be dramatic?
Also I made a thread discussing why kaido seemingly never cared about laugh tale during the flashback. He killed Oden without ever asking him about laugh tale. And yet Kin'emon in Zou says specifically that Kaido wants the secrets of the poneglyphs and laugh tale and that why he's chasing them.
This chapter is literally the first time in all of Wano arc so far that Kaido has hinted at wanting the laugh tale secrets just like kin'emon said in Zou so it's obvious that kaido started caring about this stuff AFTER everyone got time traveled. Kaido wants Momonosuke's knowledge of reading the poneglyphs since he thinks oden passed it onto him and he wants to know whether Oden since hard any of the secrets of laugh tale with any of the scabbards
Therefore Kaido definitely wants as many of these guys alive as possible and he wants Momonosuke the most. Kanjuro killing momo yet he said he doesnt actually hate momo could just be him doing things for drama and choosing to fuck over orochi and kaido for some reason
My question is why would that involve actually killing momo though? He said he doesn't have actual anger or malice towards any of these people. Killing momo fucks over both kaido and the alliance. So why would he kill momo? Just to be dramatic?
Also I made a thread discussing why kaido seemingly never cared about laugh tale during the flashback. He killed Oden without ever asking him about laugh tale. And yet Kin'emon in Zou says specifically that Kaido wants the secrets of the poneglyphs and laugh tale and that why he's chasing them.
This chapter is literally the first time in all of Wano arc so far that Kaido has hinted at wanting the laugh tale secrets just like kin'emon said in Zou so it's obvious that kaido started caring about this stuff AFTER everyone got time traveled. Kaido wants Momonosuke's knowledge of reading the poneglyphs since he thinks oden passed it onto him and he wants to know whether Oden since hard any of the secrets of laugh tale with any of the scabbards
Therefore Kaido definitely wants as many of these guys alive as possible and he wants Momonosuke the most. Kanjuro killing momo yet he said he doesnt actually hate momo could just be him doing things for drama and choosing to fuck over orochi and kaido for some reason
Simple, if Kanjuro kills Momo, he destroys the only male heir of the Kozuki clan, avenges his family, and Kinemon will kill him. It won't happen obviously, but you can't say that hasn't crossed Kanjuro's mind. Kanjuro could be messing with them, but it would jeopardize his mission. He should have booked the moment he got Momo, but instead he's on the shore making a scene in front of his former friends.
The Kaido stuff is hard to tell right now. Kaido hasn't really expressed much interest in One Piece, but he does have a poneglyph. It's possible he might think that one of the Kozuki clan retainers can read it. Hence him trying to capture them.
The Kaido stuff is hard to tell right now. Kaido hasn't really expressed much interest in One Piece, but he does have a poneglyph. It's possible he might think that one of the Kozuki clan retainers can read it. Hence him trying to capture them.
Hmmmm... I mean you can... but I wouldn't yet say that.
Because Oda is known for hopding back certain characters for the sake of plot if it demands it.
Logically speaking... Law's switching ability.... Sanji in Raid Suit who can fly with accelerators on top of being invisible.... and Kidd removing his brush sword..... Usopp sniping talent... can all stop him if Oda wants to...so you can consider it a feat.. but I personally would not knowing Oda favors plot over feats and power scaling logic
Because Oda is known for hopding back certain characters for the sake of plot if it demands it.
Logically speaking... Law's switching ability.... Sanji in Raid Suit who can fly with accelerators on top of being invisible.... and Kidd removing his brush sword..... Usopp sniping talent... can all stop him if Oda wants to...so you can consider it a feat.. but I personally would not knowing Oda favors plot over feats and power scaling logic
Kanjuro is an actor not a robot. Following orders and acting doesn't erase the damage of his past or his own lunacy, unfortunately.
Off topic really quick, but I'm now wondering if Kanjuro told Orochi and Kaido about Robin. She can read poneglyphs. Maybe that's why the poneglyph was moved from Orochi's castle to Kaido's stronghold. :unsure:
Oops getting late here, gotta go. Can't wait for the next chapter to see how this resolves.
Off topic really quick, but I'm now wondering if Kanjuro told Orochi and Kaido about Robin. She can read poneglyphs. Maybe that's why the poneglyph was moved from Orochi's castle to Kaido's stronghold. :unsure:
Oops getting late here, gotta go. Can't wait for the next chapter to see how this resolves.
The chances of Kanjuro ATTEMPTING or THREATENING to Kill Momonosuke so that he can escape is as slim as ZERO
Kanjuro has been described as "INSANE" through how much he follows the orders of Orochi. He basically is willing to DIE and not jeopardize the plan.. and willing to die for kidnapping Momonosuke and handing him to Orochi over surviving and killing Momonsuke.
What Oda has described Kanjuro with is "a man who is willing to carry the mission even at the cost of his life". Him accepting to enter the boiling pot is the exact proof of that.
So.. Kanjuro is only gonna intend to escape while holding Momo... he will not disobey Orochi and Kaido's order of capturing Momo alive... and attempt to kill him instead.
UNLESS... he is developing as a character... and started to have his own desires.. and started to put himself above Orochi's interests... which if it will happen... t should be LATER and not this soon after revealing him as the LOYAL spy who's willing to die for the mission...
Kanjuro has been described as "INSANE" through how much he follows the orders of Orochi. He basically is willing to DIE and not jeopardize the plan.. and willing to die for kidnapping Momonosuke and handing him to Orochi over surviving and killing Momonsuke.
What Oda has described Kanjuro with is "a man who is willing to carry the mission even at the cost of his life". Him accepting to enter the boiling pot is the exact proof of that.
So.. Kanjuro is only gonna intend to escape while holding Momo... he will not disobey Orochi and Kaido's order of capturing Momo alive... and attempt to kill him instead.
UNLESS... he is developing as a character... and started to have his own desires.. and started to put himself above Orochi's interests... which if it will happen... t should be LATER and not this soon after revealing him as the LOYAL spy who's willing to die for the mission...
Let me ask you this.... Do you actually think Kanjuro's plot as a traitor will be RESOLVED right after his reveal??? in one fucking chapter???
If so... then I'm sorry to say this... but you're wrong.... Oda will build Kanjuro to be "Kinemon's MAIN OPPONENT this arc"
Kinemon is the closest Retainer who has been with us for the longest.... Oda is going to give him main opponent this arc... And just like for example Kyrus grudge against Diamante... it will slowly build up until the climax of the war... where both finally clash...
Regardless if Kanjuro manages to take Momonosuke... or not... Kanjuro will NOT be cut down next chapter.... and the fact that Kanjuro will 100% escape in my book... because there is noooo way Oda finally reveals the traitor and next chapter he is DOWN.... logically IT NEVER HAPPENED EVVVVVVVVVER IN HISTORY OF ANIME. There has to be a gap,,, a time that separates between the traitor reveal... and for the main characters to put their hands on this traitor...So.. Kanjuro will escape... regardless of whatever manpower we have at the port.. and him escaping MEANS that Kanjuro will inform orochi and Kaido that the alliance is coming....
Thus... it's not a surprise attack ANYMORE....
Also... one more thing... we all are expecting the alliance to be defeated during this FIRST invasion... where their plans against the enemy is not gonna work during this first time... So... why do you think it's impossible for Kanjuro to report about them coming....
Luffy and co and retainers simply will not pay attention to that... and they will proceed to battle regardless if kanjuro reported or not... However... I expect them to make an ENTRY that is opposite to Kanjuro's expectation..
Remember... Kanjuro listened to Kinemon's plan about how to eter Onigashima... so that plan was already doomed to begin with... regardless if Kanjuro escaped now or not...
However... Law/Luffy/Kidd and co all remained under water and all came after the traiter was revealed... So most likely Law has proposed a DIFFERENT way of invasion... that will go against Kanjuro's and Orochi's expectations on how they will invade.
So.. they will still do their surprise attack anyway... and STILL fail at the first time I assume... Because there is no way they will succeed on their first try to take down kaido...
If so... then I'm sorry to say this... but you're wrong.... Oda will build Kanjuro to be "Kinemon's MAIN OPPONENT this arc"
Kinemon is the closest Retainer who has been with us for the longest.... Oda is going to give him main opponent this arc... And just like for example Kyrus grudge against Diamante... it will slowly build up until the climax of the war... where both finally clash...
Regardless if Kanjuro manages to take Momonosuke... or not... Kanjuro will NOT be cut down next chapter.... and the fact that Kanjuro will 100% escape in my book... because there is noooo way Oda finally reveals the traitor and next chapter he is DOWN.... logically IT NEVER HAPPENED EVVVVVVVVVER IN HISTORY OF ANIME. There has to be a gap,,, a time that separates between the traitor reveal... and for the main characters to put their hands on this traitor...So.. Kanjuro will escape... regardless of whatever manpower we have at the port.. and him escaping MEANS that Kanjuro will inform orochi and Kaido that the alliance is coming....
Thus... it's not a surprise attack ANYMORE....
Also... one more thing... we all are expecting the alliance to be defeated during this FIRST invasion... where their plans against the enemy is not gonna work during this first time... So... why do you think it's impossible for Kanjuro to report about them coming....
Luffy and co and retainers simply will not pay attention to that... and they will proceed to battle regardless if kanjuro reported or not... However... I expect them to make an ENTRY that is opposite to Kanjuro's expectation..
Remember... Kanjuro listened to Kinemon's plan about how to eter Onigashima... so that plan was already doomed to begin with... regardless if Kanjuro escaped now or not...
However... Law/Luffy/Kidd and co all remained under water and all came after the traiter was revealed... So most likely Law has proposed a DIFFERENT way of invasion... that will go against Kanjuro's and Orochi's expectations on how they will invade.
So.. they will still do their surprise attack anyway... and STILL fail at the first time I assume... Because there is no way they will succeed on their first try to take down kaido...
I think Momo gets captured but it won’t be without PIS I don’t think, considering the kinda odds Kanjuro has against him. I’d back him with his ability to be able to give the alliance trouble tho. He could always fly to Onigashima with one of his drawings or even create tons of clones of himself & set off in different directions. Imagine a Naruto style Kage Bunshin lolz
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To answer the thread title - yes, he’s definitely going to kidnap Momonosuke and somehow get away, be it through PIS or utilizing his DF abilities like we’ve never seen.
Momo won’t be harmed too seriously during his capture, Kin’emon and the Scabbards will make rescuing him their new priority and split the alliance while the pirates attempt to fight Kaido, and the division in their forces will give them the resounding defeat most of us expect the first time...but they’ll get Momo back (with Kanjuro remaining in the enemy camp) and proceed to whatever their next step may be.
Momo won’t be harmed too seriously during his capture, Kin’emon and the Scabbards will make rescuing him their new priority and split the alliance while the pirates attempt to fight Kaido, and the division in their forces will give them the resounding defeat most of us expect the first time...but they’ll get Momo back (with Kanjuro remaining in the enemy camp) and proceed to whatever their next step may be.