Chapter Discussion Is Kizaru a psychopath ?

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

Intelligence is directly related to feelings, which in their most complex forms require, first, a level of neocortical development only to be found in humans; and, second, specific cultural contexts that shape the feeling and how people experience it (a cultural complexity missing in other animals). Non-human animals experience from very basic emotions (even if it's only surprise) to feelings in the most intellectually developed (e.g. other hominids), but certain sentiments are reserved to humans as the most intelligent beings.



It gets to a point that it feels irrelevant to talk about "psychopaths", which is what I'm leading to. Even what you'd call the most basic assumptions about such profiles, like their lack of empathy, are heavily doubted or discussed (the empathy issue I mentioned was, indeed, one of the examples given during my training as psychologist). Those studies, forensic and legal context you mention will usually stick to the vagueness of "psychopathic traits" or similar, many times on a weak basis (e.g. many papers I've come across these years that talk about psychopathy use tools lacking enough reliability, such as the Dark Triad Test which, as far as I recall, showed strong overlap between its constructs; or simply choose "psychopathic" in absence of a better diagnosis). When the psychopathic profile can be better explained by using recognized labels (for example, I see no necessity in separating psychopathy from ASPD on the basis of it being a "extreme/more violent" version of it instead of simply including it as part of its spectrum), "psychopath" as a diagnostic becomes, at best unnecessary, at worst a buzzword abused by the average people that comes in handy to pathologize whatever they find unmoral.

Well you're not exactly wrong
And I don't really care to argue about this any longer
And you're one of the first people on this site to say something that actually makes a lot sense in an argument
So I'm just gonna concede.

 

[Daves John]

It gets to a point that it feels irrelevant to talk about "psychopaths", which is what I'm leading to. Even what you'd call the most basic assumptions about such profiles, like their lack of empathy, are heavily doubted or discussed (the empathy issue I mentioned was, indeed, one of the examples given during my training as psychologist). Those studies, forensic and legal context you mention will usually stick to the vagueness of "psychopathic traits" or similar, many times on a weak basis (e.g. many papers I've come across these years that talk about psychopathy use tools lacking enough reliability, such as the Dark Triad Test which, as far as I recall, showed strong overlap between its constructs; or simply choose "psychopathic" in absence of a better diagnosis). When the psychopathic profile can be better explained by using recognized labels (for example, I see no necessity in separating psychopathy from ASPD on the basis of it being a "extreme/more violent" version of it instead of simply including it as part of its spectrum), "psychopath" as a diagnostic becomes, at best unnecessary, at worst a buzzword abused by the average people that comes in handy to pathologize whatever they find unmoral.

I can look up the sources later, but I Majored in Forensic/Legal Psychology, and psychopathic lack of emotional empathy was discussed, but we were taught that recent findings suggest anyone can learn cognitive empathy.

I agree there is a lack of reliable/valid research, but I think it would not be fair to completely disregard the psychological construct for that, until further notice. Dark Triad traits are often connected (if you consider yourself innately superior to everyone, you won't be as concerned with their well being) which is why we put them together ("Dark Triad).

If the traits are the same, but to a higher degree, then that would make sense (though we can still categorize them like we do with autism - lv. 1,2 and 3). But if there are additional factors which are at least somewhat categorically distinct, then arguments is still very much in the air.

And you're one of the first people on this site to say something that actually makes a lot sense in an argument
So I'm just gonna concede.

 

[Monster Zoro's Tesla Supplier]

I can look up the sources later, but I Majored in Forensic/Legal Psychology, and psychopathic lack of emotional empathy was discussed, but we were taught that recent findings suggest anyone can learn cognitive empathy.

I agree there is a lack of reliable/valid research, but I think it would not be fair to completely disregard the psychological construct for that, until further notice. Dark Triad traits are often connected (if you consider yourself innately superior to everyone, you won't be as concerned with their well being) which is why we put them together ("Dark Triad).

If the traits are the same, but to a higher degree, then that would make sense (though we can still categorize them like we do with autism - lv. 1,2 and 3). But if there are additional factors which are at least somewhat categorically distinct, then arguments is still very much in the air.

It's surprisingly rare for someone to argue with me on here and not just say a bunch of low quality troll babble.

 

[Aldarion]

That's a pretty valid take, kizaru really does seem like someone who has come to terms with being a cog. It's also a contrast to the other OG3 admirals which is nice.

Aokiji believed the world government isn't good and didnt want to be a cog in that machine. kizaru may not believe either side is good or bad and pretty much stick around what has more power over him, at least at this point he is a Lil conflicted.
Akainu believes the world government is inherently good because pirates are inherently bad, he wants to be a cog in the sense the marines are the good. He is also big balled enough to realise the WG is bloody ridiculous but it maintains a form of order so why not
Lowkey makes me believe akainu has a chance to betray the WG if he can realise himself that that the WG isn't it chief.

I'm actually fairly certain Akainu will betray the government at some point. Not that he will suddenly become a good person though.

 

[EmperorKinyagi]

This thread aged really badly @Fujishiro