Speculations Is Queen down for good?

[Paperchampion23]

bro stop
u got bodied with wsw
u gonna get bodied with Lueen to
he s done

I will not. One example does not equate the other. Every single vs chapter is different. Every fight is handled differently

I did not get "bodied". I literally said multiple times that if 1022 showed their defeated faces I would agree they are done, because narratively that's when it made sense. This was when 1021 came out and Robin win.

 

[Zowo]

I will not. One example does not equate the other. Every single vs chapter is different. Every fight is handled differently

I did not get "bodied". I literally said multiple times that if 1022 showed their defeated faces I would agree they are done, because narratively that's when it made sense. This was when 1021 came out and Robin win.

its over stop
we move to better fights

 

[Paperchampion23]

its over stop
we move to better fights

You realize that Queen getting a longer fight means longer fights in general right? If he gets 2 chapters, it guarantees Zoro will get 2 or more. If he's down here, then there "could" be a chance Zoro's fight only takes one more chapter. Is that a good or a bad thing in your opinion?

I don't get the desire to want to end fights quickly after having to wait months to build up to them.

 

[Kurozumi Wiwi]

I think this post was overlooked, because it's true. Look at every other one piece fight for the protagonists. In nearly every single fight, the villain does 1 final attack before being taken out. Just do this with Wano:

- Ulti was about to attack Nami before losing
- WsW used multiple attacks that couldn't break Jinbe before getting wrecked
- Sasaki used a last resort and got outclassed by Franky
- Black Maria used her fire and was about take out Robin if she didn't use her Fishman Karate move on the roof.
- Jack and Peros had attacked Inu/Neko (off screen unfortunately...) before losing.

Then just compare to Queen... the last thing he does to Sanji is Winch Queen. After this he gets hit twice, then focuses on something else while being invisible.

I for one don't believe it's over because of this. Seems way to anticlimactic, even when you compare it to the F6 fights.

Queen is literally not fighting Sanji on those last pages. It would be highly unsatisfactory if Sanji wins this way. Sure he got a powerup, but Queen was focused on the oiran, not Sanji here.

Let's just compare it to the end, last three pages of some other major Sanji fights

Spoiler

Spoiler

Very focused, with Sanji overpowering his opponent "last attack"


Meanwhile three last pages of Sanji vs Queen

Spoiler

2 pages are Queen being focused on a geisha while paying no attention to Sanji, first kick even being cheap shot.

It's kinda of paradoxical, because I think Sanji vs Queen has biggest number of pages but if this is the finisher, this is by far the most anclimatic one from a major Sanji fight.

 

[Cinera]

They showed it in 1022. It still happened just later.

Hence why any arguement about Queen's fate works. He might be down in 1035, he might not.

That doesn't change anything for Sanji vs Queen though. We can see the defeated Queen at the start of next chapter before transitioning elsewhere.

It's not a good example, those other fights had the villains doing final attacks on Jinbe and Franky. Queen is literally distracted by the oiran.

Monet did not attempt any final attack before getting rekt by Zoro.

I simply don't think that every opponent has to be defeated in a clash.

Who's Who wasn't defeated in a clash either. He was trying to run away from Jimbe when Jimbe stepped on his tail to prevent his escape and then rekt him.

So no, this isn't any sort of requirement.

And people said the same thing about 1031 which is kind of funny. It looked pretty climactic too, even if it didn't resolve plotwork. The point is, previous examples can't really be used to determine anything.

As you said yourself, it didn't resolve plot lines so it's irrelevant.

He can get up next chapter, or he stays down and nobody can prove otherwise until it

This isn't about proof. It's about what's most likely given the available information.

 

[Paperchampion23]

Let's just compare it to the end, last three pages of some other major Sanji fights

Spoiler

Spoiler

Very focused, with Sanji overpowering his opponent "last attack"


Meanwhile three last pages of Sanji vs Queen

Spoiler

2 pages are Queen being focused on a geisha while paying no attention to Sanji, first kick even being cheap shot.

It's kinda of paradoxical, because I think Sanji vs Queen has biggest number of pages but if this is the finisher, this is by far the most anclimatic one from a major Sanji fight.

Agreed, something about it feels "light". Idk how to describe it big I think these examples convey it


And before someone tries to counterargue that Oda cant draw like this anymore, we literally get these personal exchange type conclusions for Franky, Jinbe and Robin. Oda has already drawn more "personal" finishers for them compared to Sanji vs Queen.

I like the final double spread, I'm confused by the build up to it. Not only that but the chapter is short. This is notable because clearly that double spread "rushes" through his chain attacks when an additional 2 pages like a regular chapter could have made this far more climactic.

 

[Garp the Fist]

Much like the Flying Six, the problem once again with having Queen get back up is that Sanji has shown himself comprehensively stronger than him. Queen would be getting up for a single chapter, having already been beaten up, just for that chapter to once again… end in him getting beaten up. Sanji’s already taken his attacks, he’s broken his arm, he’s blitzed him… what’s left to see more of? In a single chapter?

I’m not especially bothered if he does get back up, and it’s not quite as obvious that it’s over (the Flying Six fights were obvious), but it’s too late to resurrect Queen’s threat.

 

[Cinera]

I think he's definatley coming back he didnt use reiju powers and his title is plague. Probably going to have some sort of posion mode

• Queen said "Judge's sons" not "Judge's children".
• Sanji's conflict is with his father and brothers (symbolised by Queen's powers), not Reiju.
  • Reiju never bullied Sanji in his childhood and was the only one who was nice to him.

Queen isn't going ng to have Reiju's ability.

No the fight ain't over. Be it Ice Oni Plague or Awakening he'd be back.

Why are you so confident that he's coming back?

 

[Paperchampion23]

That doesn't change anything for Sanji vs Queen though. We can see the defeated Queen at the start of next chapter before transitioning elsewhere.



Monet did not attempt any final attack before getting rekt by Zoro.

I simply don't think that every opponent has to be defeated in a clash.

Who's Who wasn't defeated in a clash either. He was trying to run away from Jimbe when Jimbe stepped on his tail to prevent his escape and then rekt him.

So no, this isn't any sort of requirement.



As you said yourself, it didn't resolve plot lines so it's irrelevant.



This isn't about proof. It's about what's most likely given the available information.

Everything you said I've discussed already.

And WsW was actively trying to hurt Jinbe, I didn't say clash, I said final attacks. WsW did Shigan Madara until his fingers broke. Then he got his wrists broken, then he tried using Rankyaku. Then he used Gagan again. The point is he actively attacked Jinbe until he was scared and ran away. He couldn't break through Jinbe's toughness.


Queen literally is not paying attention to Sanji at all in the end. There is no other fight in the series like this.

 

[Finalbeta]

There's not much of a reason to portray Queen down for good realistically apart from speeding up but I hope Oda will take things more seriously and portray at least one additional round of Sanji vs Queen.

 

[Kurozumi Wiwi]

Agreed, something about it feels "light". Idk how to describe it big I think these examples convey it


And before someone tries to counterargue that Oda can draw like this anymore, we literally get these personal exchange type conclusions for Franky, Jinbe and Robin. Oda has already drawn more "personal" finishers for them compared to Sanji vs Queen.

I like the final double spread, I'm confused by the build up to it. Not only that but the chapter is short. This is notable because clearly that double spread "rushes" through his chain attacks when an additional 2 pages like a regular chapter could have made this far more climactic.

Heck, despite not considering to be a real fight argue, I'd argue that even the final of Nami vs Ulti fet more climatic than that with her opponent dodging the initial hit.
I like the final spread too, but after all this wings stuff I expect ending of the fights to be much more climatic than the tobi roppo ones. And this isn't the case right now. Come on now, being distracted by a geisha? This is how this ends?

 

[Paperchampion23]

Much like the Flying Six, the problem once again with having Queen get back up is that Sanji has shown himself comprehensively stronger than him. Queen would be getting up for a single chapter, having already been beaten up, just for that chapter to once again… end in him getting beaten up. Sanji’s already taken his attacks, he’s broken his arm, he’s blitzed him… what’s left to see more of? In a single chapter?

I’m not especially bothered if he does get back up, and it’s not quite as obvious that it’s over (the Flying Six fights were obvious), but it’s too late to resurrect Queen’s threat.

Any number of things can "make" him a threat though. Does he use poison as a last resort? Ice Oni? Some other surprising technology?

For a guy with all the gadgets he has, he never truly has shown off something that constitutes a "last resort" or "final" move that fights are typically known for. The battle on Queen's side literally ends with Winch Queen. He basically stops paying attention to Sanji after that point.

It's weird.

 

[Sheer D. Lusion]

@Paperchampion23: it looks like a finisher attack. In fact, It looks exactly like other Strawhat finishers that we've seen in Wano.


Jimbe vs Who's Who:

Franky vs Sasaki:

Sanji vs Queen:

I'd love for Queen to stand up and then power himself up with some monstrous plague that surpasses even the Ice Oni.

I think that's nothing but hopium though. The narrative of the fight was fully resolved in this chapter.

you could say the same with the hell memory panel but it did not end the fight.
the minor sh fights are less important so they all ended when the semi double spread attack happened but the big fights allow more climatic moments like that. queen and big mom fights already got spreads like that closing a chapter and the fight kept going so that comparison does not really work with the current fights.

 

[Yasuda]

I hope not. Chapter was alright but pretty anticlimactic. Really need Queen to come back one last time and let Sanji have a cool moment. The final panel was pretty lackluster if you ask me.

 

[Seth]

Remember the chapter that ended with Hell's Memories? This is the same shit all over again. Queen will stand up and keep talking. This fight is so fucking ass. It's Sanji testing his new toys while Queen just talks.

 

[Desolate Smaug]

No idea honestly.

The thing that lack here imo is the usual shonen scene were antagonist try something on the protagonist and it miserably failed then the protagonist have a clear upper hand and overpowered the antagonist.

Here Sanji just attack an unfocus Queen. Sanji never really overpowered Queen in a direct clash like he did in the Mr2 fight or the Jabura fight.

Now maybe Oda will not not follow this road with this fight and it is over.

It is hard to say, really.

I get where you are coming from but I don't think Sanji was ever going to overpower Queen tbh. Even the series of attacks he dishes this chapter are the same he did with Kurobi. They are basically the butchering sequence a cook does when separating the parts of a fish or an animal after it's been slaughtered. He was going for the the regions that separate/connect the various body parts. Like the shoulder region which kinda connects the rest of the hand to the torso etc.

You right though, Queen kept joking to the very last minute. It feels like he never took this fight seriously

 

[Paperchampion23]

Weirdest thing to me is how Oda could omit his sisters poison powers from the damn lineup when he's Queen the Plague lmao. Unless it's on purpose and intended to be used next?

A lot of people say the "plotline" with Germa has been closed but the problem with this is Sanji's constant denial of who his family is. What would he say if Queen insulted Reiju or Sora? What would he do?

 

[Garp the Fist]

Any number of things can "make" him a threat though. Does he use poison as a last resort? Ice Oni? Some other surprising technology?

For a guy with all the gadgets he has, he never truly has shown off something that constitutes a "last resort" or "final" move that fights are typically known for. The battle on Queen's side literally ends with Winch Queen. He basically stops paying attention to Sanji after that point.

It's weird.

I could see him launching a last-gasp plague bomb of some kind next chapter. A bit like Trebol blowing himself after being hit by Law.

But I’ll be surprised if we see anymore of Sanji actually fighting Queen.

 

[Seth]

I could see him launching a last-gasp plague bomb of some kind next chapter. A bit like Trebol blowing himself after being hit by Law.

But I’ll be surprised if we see anymore of Sanji actually fighting Queen.

Which would lead to Sanji finally utilizing Okama teachings aside from cooking post-battle dishes for G5 marines?

 

[Paperchampion23]

I could see him launching a last-gasp plague bomb of some kind next chapter. A bit like Trebol blowing himself after being hit by Law.

But I’ll be surprised if we see anymore of Sanji actually fighting Queen.

Same, a lot of people will shit on me for having an opinion, but even I'm more skeptical about this fight continuing than I thought the F6 would. I just see the oddities in this chapter as not being climactic enough, bit they could be.