Chapter Discussion Is Zoro nerf?

[Garp the Fist]

And swords can be harder without Haki than those with, thats jusz your Interpretation of it.

Can they? Where has that ever been stated?

What you seem to be saying is that a black blade isn’t actually a big deal, which is very contrary to how it’s been presented thus far. The only two we know of have been owned by the WSS. I

If the only thing Enma was doing is making Zoro force to give out his Haki without doing more than other swords with it, there would be no reason to use it, since other swords will so the exact same thing.

The reason for using it is that it improves and refines use of CoA, which no other sword can do. Every use of the sword is a struggle between the user and sword over how much CoA is being used. By mastering that, you refine CoA use and become stronger.

Too philosophical, we are talking about specified applications. Of course control is always better, control is not always stronger.

It’s not too philosophical, it’s the entire idea behind ryou that Oda specifically brought back for this arc with Luffy’s training.

 

[Rekien]

No, enma is not a nerf by any means of the word.

 

[Garp the Fist]

Yes but right now he needs Enma to use his Ryou to best potential. In end he won't.

That’s never been said. Enma didn’t make Zoro do anything he hadn’t shown before. What it did was make him do something he didn’t want to do, which is not what swordsmanship is all about.

 

[Thabeast]

Enma was never stated to have it's own power. It just takes it's user's Ryuo.

My interpretation of what Zoro means by "Use more of Enma's power" is that he hasn't mastered the sword enough where he can use it's power to the fullest extent like he does with Sandai or Shusui for example.

Although for the dumbasses that think Enma has it's own particular power mind explaining to us what it is ? Cause it clearly doesn't move on it's own.

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

That’s never been said. Enma didn’t make Zoro do anything he hadn’t shown before. What it did was make him do something he didn’t want to do, which is not what swordsmanship is all about.

It will though i.e Cut Kaidou.

Zoro right now doesn't have the CoA control that swordman of Oden tier are capable of, yes he's better than other but not at that level. Enma is forcing Zoro to get mastery over his CoA haki. Now he needs Enma to draw that power(his Haki), later he won't.

All Luffy learnt with Grandpa Hyou is to out his Haki from his body. And look how strong he's gotten.
For Zoro, he already knew that but there's still more to learn. Ain't there?
Mihawk slashes are more stronger, his slashes have more Ryou in them. Right or not?
And that's where Enma come in. It is allowing more Ryou to flow in Zoro swords. More Ryou stronger attacks. But the downside is, if Zoro don't learn to control it completely, he could die from Enma using all his Haki.

Atleast that's how i see it.

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

Although not mastered as of yet Enma is still stronger than Shusui

No Enma has more potential than Shisui

 

[M944]

Enma was never stated to have it's own power. It just takes it's user's Ryuo.

My interpretation of what Zoro means by "Use more of Enma's power" is that he hasn't mastered the sword enough where he can use it's power to the fullest extent like he does with Sandai or Shusui for example.

Although for the dumbasses that think Enma has it's own particular power mind explaining to us what it is ? Cause it clearly doesn't move on it's own.

Your interpretations means nothing.
Even more where they contradicts manga
If it either one of those interpretations he could have said I need to release more Haki

 

[Thabeast]

Your interpretations means nothing.
Even more where they contradicts manga
If it either one of those interpretations he could have said I need to release more Haki

Then tell me what is Enma's power that we haven't been told about. Cause all we know is that Enma is a special sword that takes huge amounts of Ryuo if you can't control it, that's literally it.
Everytime Zoro gets a new sword, he needs time to control it fully and use it to it's fullest potential & power. That's the only thing that makes sense....

 

[M944]

Then tell me what is Enma's power that we haven't been told about. Cause all we know is that Enma is a special sword that takes huge amounts of Ryuo if you can't control it, that's literally it.

Increase AP

 

[Thabeast]

Increase AP

Why is it better than Shusui or Wado in AP? They're all from the same category of swords.

 

[M944]

Why is it better than Shusui or Wado in AP? They're all from the same category of swords.

Why Sandai cuts more than Yubashiri ?
They are from the same grade ?
They are weapons even in the same grade some are better than the other ones

 

[Winsmoke Sanji]

Lol 19 No's

You really thought you had something here huh

 

[Zowo]

Why Sandai cuts more than Yubashiri ?
They are from the same grade ?
They are weapons even in the same grade some are better than the other ones

Sandai is not on the same grade as yubashiri
yubashiri was one of the 50
sandai has no grade

 

[M944]

Sandai is not on the same grade as yubashiri
yubashiri was one of the 50
sandai has no grade

True it's just a fair assumption
However it changes nothing
If you think Sandai has no grade you need to explain why it have better AP than a graded one
If you think Sandai is one of the fifteen explain why it have better AP than another one of the fifteen
If you think it is equal or better than Enma explain why Zoro relies more on Enma than Sandai

So it doesn't really matter you just need to understand that same grade doesn't mean equal

 

[Zenos7]

If you think Sandai has no grade you need to explain why it have better AP than a graded one

i'd guess cause its cursed

 

[Cinera]

we've seen than zoro can't still control enma so do you think this zoro is weaker than zoro with shushui?

A decisice answer to this thread may be offered by whether Zoro is unable to infuse his attacks with Koka yet (without draining out all his haki). If he can't, then that's a substantial hindrance to his combat ability. If Zoro wasn't just fucking around and didn't coat Enma with Koka because he couldn't, then he's substantially nerfed. If Zoro can use his koka as normal (the Kaido scene basically being PIS), then this he's not nerfed in a significant capacity.

I think it's strange that he didn't use Koka, so the possibility of him being nerfed isn't insignificant. That said, I'll watch how the fight progresses.

 

[Slash Slash BigSlash]

Zoro is always nerfed in one way or another.

It can be either because of the plot, his previous injuries, his enemy being too weak(if you can call that nerf).

Oda just likes to avoid Zoro going all out. I think its usually because he is too strong and will take shine away from Luffy if completely let go.

I think this time its because of the plot. Kaido has to notice enma. But I think its a bit early for that at the moment. So Oda is gonna dick tease us until he's ready to show more.

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

No way Zoro is nerfed. When Zoro got Shusui for the first time, it's immediately increases his attack power. Same thing for Enma. Whether Enma have its own power or some kind of magic sword, it's still unique from other swords because it drained your haki off and will turn weak people into a husk if they can't control Enma. Enma and Shusui maybe on the same rank but the other is not a black blade while the other one is. Zoro with Enma should be way stronger than Zoro with Shusui.

 

[Rekien]

No way Zoro is nerfed. When Zoro got Shusui for the first time, it's immediately increases his attack power. Same thing for Enma. Whether Enma have its own power or some kind of magic sword, it's still unique from other swords because it drained your haki off and will turn weak people into a husk if they can't control Enma. Enma and Shusui maybe on the same rank but the other is not a black blade while the other one is. Zoro with Enma should be way stronger than Zoro with Shusui.

IDk about "way stronger" since both blades are the same grade, but enma has a bigger ceiling of growt compared to shusui, shusui has already reached its peak, cant improve it anymore while enma can become a supreme great blade.

Its just a matter of getting used to enma.

 

[Cinera]

@Yo Tan Wa, @ShinmenTakezo: I agree with everything @Garp the Fist has said in this thread. To add to what he said.

And what tells you that his current mastery of Enma in terms of applying it is below the full potential of Shusui?

Are black blades of same rank better or worse than their counterparts which are not black? No idea, iirc not specified either.

Although not mastered as of yet Enma is still stronger than Shusui

Shusui and Enma share the same rank, but on top of that Shusui is a black blade.

• Black blades are exceptionally rare.
  • We know of only two, and both belonged to people at the apex of swordsmanship.
• Mihawk's Yoru is the "finest blade in the world".
• A sword becoming black would raise its rank.
• Black blades are exceptionally hard, such that even if a dinosaur stepped on it, it wouldn't bend a millimetre.

Given that they're the same grade and that Shusui is black, Shusui should be the stronger sword. When Enma becomes black, it'll become a Saijo O Wazamono, and surpass Shusui. Emma's potential is greater than Shusui.

If it worked like that why is Yoru the strongest blade in the world and not the other saijos?

Because Yoru is a black blade. Yoru being the strongest blade is our indication that black blades are stronger than their contemporaries.

Enma train zoro to kept his Ryou ?
What's the point Z9ro never had this problem before

Through usage of Enma, Zoro's ryuo will become stronger and/or his control and mastery over it will improve.

It will though i.e Cut Kaidou.

Zoro right now doesn't have the CoA control that swordman of Oden tier are capable of, yes he's better than other but not at that level. Enma is forcing Zoro to get mastery over his CoA haki. Now he needs Enma to draw that power(his Haki), later he won't.

All Luffy learnt with Grandpa Hyou is to out his Haki from his body. And look how strong he's gotten.
For Zoro, he already knew that but there's still more to learn. Ain't there?
Mihawk slashes are more stronger, his slashes have more Ryou in them. Right or not?
And that's where Enma come in. It is allowing more Ryou to flow in Zoro swords. More Ryou stronger attacks. But the downside is, if Zoro don't learn to control it completely, he could die from Enma using all his Haki.

Atleast that's how i see it.

I think this is a reasonable interpretation. It's not currently the interpretation I share, but it's not too implausible. I guess time will tell if it's correct.