Speculations It was legitimately bad writing for Oda to not have had Sanji fight Oven in WCI

#1
'One piece isn't about fights', this is a statement I heard often in WCI in regards to Sanji, or any of the SHs getting a true 1v1. And yes, while One Piece isn't about fights, fights are a major part of one piece. Fights are such a big part of one piece that Luffy has spent 2 years training with Rayleigh so that he can get better at fights.

Fights in OP, are essentially the payoff to a conflict as well as a way for the fans to see their favorite characters in action.

So When you proclaim a 'year of sanji' and basically dedicate an arc to Sanji, is it too much to ask for Sanji to have one complete 1v1? Especially since he was absent in Dressrosa making his last true 1v1(before page one at least) in Fishman island. In a series in which battles are a major major part of the series, in which fights are essentially the payoff of almost every arc, is it too much to ask for one of the main characters of WCI to get just one fight?

I think not, I think it was perfectly reasonable to expect a fight from sanji in this arc. Sanji, unlike Robin who had a similar arc, is a main fighter in the SH crew. I know this was an entirely reasonable expectation because almost everyone thought sanji would get a fight in WCI before the arc began.

While expectations are created by the fans, authors can control expectations with their writing. If an expectation is completely reasonable, is the author doing a disservice to the reader by not meeting said expectation?

I think so, and in the case of WCI, I think it was bad writing on Oda's part to not give sanji a fight. But what's more is that not only did he not give Sanji a fight, he fully set up Sanji having a fight and then chose to not give him said fight. With this I am talking about Oven.

If you look at how Oven was portrayed in the latter parts(post tea-party) of WCI, he was essentially the third biggest antagonist of the arc right behind Big Mom and Katakuri.

Oven not only killed pound, he was leading the charge to kill luffy. It was oven who was on WCI standing in front of the mirror with his glaive, waiting for Luffy to pop out so that he could slice him. It was oven that was commanding the entire forces on Cacao island.

So what happened to Oven? Nothing, absolutely fucking nothing. He got decked by a couple of characters: Sanji, Capone, and Ichiji. But there was no payoff for the build up he had as a villain. Absolutely nothing.
Were there other unresolved plot points? Yeah, sure. Sanji's relationship with judge was never resolved, but Oda could(and most likely will) bring back judge in a later arc to resolve that subplot.

But as for Oven, Oda absolutely wasted his potential as a villain, he had so much build up, but it was all for fucking nothing. Why? Because Luffy by wano's end, Luffy will be an emperor. He will easily be a top tier, with Sanji and Zoro easily being YC level. Whereas in WCI, there was real question as to if Sanji could even beat Oven, post wano there will not be.

Due to power creep, Oven will never be relevant as a villain again. If he even comes back as a villain(which is doubtful), he will probably get defeated by Brooke or Franky and said fight will not have near as much build up as it did in WCI.

And all Oda needed to do was draw a few more chapters in the arc and he could have easily met expectations for sanji, fulfilled Oven's role as a villain, and added more to the story. Post tea party there was literally only 2 main plot points: the big mom subplot and the luffy vs katakuri subplot. Both of these seemed to drag on forever, causing many fans to get bored with the arc. Adding an extra fight, would have taken some weight off of those other two subplots to drive the entire arc as well as giving Sanji's character arc in WCI a satisfying conclusion because god knows how underwhelming the whole cake subplot was. The worst part is that from the looks of it, there would have been no downsides whatsoever if Oda chose to do this

It is for these reasons, that I have ultimately chosen to conclude that it was bad writing for Oda to not have had Sanji fight Oven in WCI
 
#3
It's been a while since I've seen this topic pop up, I thought everyone would be over it by now.

I agree Oda raised expectations when he proclaimed the year of Sanji, because every Sanji fan was convinced that he was going to shine, and were disappointed when all they got was a deeper exposition of Sanji's character.

I do however disagree that it was bad writing to not give Sanji a 1v1, since that would have taken away from what the arc was about with regards to Sanji: He is fine the way he is and doesn't need to prove his strength to be accepted.

Has there been an arc where main character of the arc got a 1v1 ?
- Sanji in Beratie didn't get a 1v1
- Nami didn't get one in Arlong park.
- Robin and Ussop in Ennies loby
- Law in Dressrosa

Were all the above bad writing?
In my opinion Oda made the right choice since I now have a deeper understanding of Sanji which I would have overlooked if he got a 1v1.
 
#8
I think it's just one of those age old questions never meant to be answered;


Fire Fist?


Or Fire Foot?
There is possible this could happen in Wano War since BM Pirates are there. Sanji can have appetizer with Oven before heading into facing Queen or King.
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I mean, he technically did. Two, in fact. Unfortunately, he didn't win either of them.
Kinda same with Zoro who didn't win his fight in that arc either and have mixed loss and wins despite his famous quite.
 

HA001

World's Strongest Swordsman
#9
There is possible this could happen in Wano War since BM Pirates are there. Sanji can have appetizer with Oven before heading into facing Queen or King.
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Kinda same with Zoro who didn't win his fight in that arc either and have mixed loss and wins despite his famous quite.
Lmfao cause mihawk is comparable to pearl and gin.
 
#12
It's been a while since I've seen this topic pop up, I thought everyone would be over it by now.

I agree Oda raised expectations when he proclaimed the year of Sanji, because every Sanji fan was convinced that he was going to shine, and were disappointed when all they got was a deeper exposition of Sanji's character.

I do however disagree that it was bad writing to not give Sanji a 1v1, since that would have taken away from what the arc was about with regards to Sanji: He is fine the way he is and doesn't need to prove his strength to be accepted.

Has there been an arc where main character of the arc got a 1v1 ?
- Sanji in Beratie didn't get a 1v1
- Nami didn't get one in Arlong park.
- Robin and Ussop in Ennies loby
- Law in Dressrosa

Were all the above bad writing?
In my opinion Oda made the right choice since I now have a deeper understanding of Sanji which I would have overlooked if he got a 1v1.
Shuush... Dont scare the Zorofans.
 
#13
Wow...you dont say. You figured this out now ?:emohiyo:

Oda has regressed as a writer nothing new tbh.
Not really, he gotten much better and some kinda overthink themes of the arc as something else like for example It was Impel-Down Arc where its more about retrieving than fighting and dominate everyone on it's end. Let's bash Oda as in Wano arc is give Sanji beating PO, so nothing about regressing about it, but arc was meant to be something else.
 
#14
Not really, he gotten much better and some kinda overthink themes of the arc as something else like for example It was Impel-Down Arc where its more about retrieving than fighting and dominate everyone on it's end. Let's bash Oda as in Wano arc is give Sanji beating PO, so nothing about regressing about it, but arc was meant to be something else.
I bash Oda because instead of making Sanji grow stronger. He gives him a dumb suit that goes against his morals and how he was built as a fighter.

It was cheap way of making him stronger because he couldnt be asked giving anyone but Luffy fights.
 
#16
I bash Oda because instead of making Sanji grow stronger. He gives him a dumb suit that goes against his morals and how he was built as a fighter.

It was cheap way of making him stronger because he couldnt be asked giving anyone but Luffy fights.
RS isn't bad as it's shown it's not for power, but stealth stuff which make sense. If he gave him new power and fighting style, I would agree, but as shown with PO, nothing chances for him on how he fights much as his stats are still his own and invisibility isn't much to fight when user has COO and plus Sanji is honorable guy to fight more fait than one thinks off. He won't stop training for the suit and let it control him. He stated he won't be like Germa, so expect him to do things his own way on handling situation.
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Sanji achieved something better though.
Dodging Katakuri's sneak attack attempt while being distracted (in middle of marriage).
He also knocked Luffy out, something that Katakuri and Doffy failed to do, and only Kaido could accomplish.
Dodging Katakuri FS is big feat especially shook Katakuri when he did that, so it does hint him having greater COO in the future and possible FS too.

Also got feats in on Daifuku and Oven to show his strength, just issue of having full fight as we haven't seen any fight last for that, not because he isn't getting stronger.
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Lmfao cause mihawk is comparable to pearl and gin.
Losing to an knife is disrespectful as Zoro wasn't taken seriously at all lol.
 
#17
RS isn't bad as it's shown it's not for power, but stealth stuff which make sense. If he gave him new power and fighting style, I would agree, but as shown with PO, nothing chances for him on how he fights much as his stats are still his own and invisibility isn't much to fight when user has COO and plus Sanji is honorable guy to fight more fait than one thinks off. He won't stop training for the suit and let it control him. He stated he won't be like Germa, so expect him to do things his own way on handling situation.
RS is trash.

Instead of making Sanji goes invisible manually because he moves too fast, just like how Sanji can create fire when spinning around so fast, Oda decided to make him invisible by the trash suit.

The formula was always Sanji could do what his siblings can do with their technology, except Sanji does it manually. Siblings can fly around using special shoes, Sanji does it by Sky Walk. Ichiji can produce fire by his suit, Sanji does it manually. Niji is fast thanks to his suit, Sanji is fast manually.

Now the formula is finished with the Raid suit trash.

And in WCI ending Judge still views Sanji as a failure, in which Luffy idiotly agrees but sees those points as Sanji's good points. Sanji never resolved his conflict with their siblings too. Even when Niji handed him the suit, he still mocked him as "slow".
 
#18
Sanji is a cook not a fighter as a Job
So oda wanted to let him shine by his cooking skills.
This what is the WCI about the The captain getting back his cook.
...

But oda failed at this
Him cooking the cake was not a big thing in OP world even IN totlands
No one knows that sanji who made it
Not the citizens nor his family not even big mom herself .

Sanji biggest achievement in WCI was in the dark .

He didn't even get famous as a cook after the arc ended
But let him be famous cuz he's a vins what he was fighting to not be the whole arc or maybe his whole life then next arc let him use RS and fight ?!!


This why WCI is the worst arc in one piece at all


Sanji role & bigmom disaster = worst arc
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It's like oda mocking sanji character seriously .
 
#19
This! People try to shamelessly plug that WCI was one of the best arcs since the post-TS ignoring so many of the glaring flaws in the arc. At the end of the day, Judge still saw him as a failure that was never rectified! Also, what is stopping BM from killing Zeff out of anger now?! Nothing! I am not angry at the RS, I actually think it is a neat power-up, but the way Oda left WCI and had Sanji constantly be in situations that didn't show his intellect, his combat ability was truly horrendous. Also, the fact that BM betrayed the Vinsmokes was crap writing too, when you consider that she had no problem marrying her kids off to others, why should Judge be any different. They didn't even want her military only her flag to fly under, surely she could spare that and she would have had Germa's scientific might to herself. Instead for the sake of plot contrived convenience, we got a woman who had no problem marrying her kids off to fishmen, to mafia kingpins and giants, suddenly had a big issue marrying her 34th daughter to a prince of a powerful nation who were more than willing to give their technology. Also, if the world found out what happened to BM and that she killed the Vinsmokes, then no one would ever want to form alliances again with her, so she has essentially lost the means that she uses to form alliances (excluding Kaido). Also, Sanji was portrayed as an idiot throughout the whole arc. This from a man who outsmarted a Shichibukai known for his tactical mind twice outsmarted a buster call, saved the crew with his wit so many times and nowhere in this arc did it show Sanji's intellect, instead we got Bege and Jimbei filling that role for some reason. Essentially Sanji was relegated to the damsel in distress because it made Luffy look good. Good writers don't regress their characters to make others shine, they do that by quality writing.

I don't mind that Oda failed in the arc, every writer goes through bad phases, but to sit there and listen to people spoon-feeding us crap that WCI was one of the best arcs and that Oda did nothing wrong with the character of Sanji, is rage-inducing.

Accept the fact that it regressed every positive character trait for Sanji and say ok hopefully the next arc does better and so far Wano Sanji is looking just like his pre-timeskip self and that is awesome. He is thinking tactically, putting the crew first by using the suit, showing his combat skills all things that Oda should have done in WCI.
 
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