Speculations It was legitimately bad writing for Oda to not have had Sanji fight Oven in WCI
- Thread starter Monkey D Theories
- Start date
But those things are not mutually exclusive
Sanji could have baked the cake and fought Oven
Its not even about Sanji needing to prove himself.
Oven had so much buildup as a villain that was just wasted. Like I said, fights are often the pay off for conflict in OP. WCI just lacked a good pay off imo. The cake was underwhelming and useless. Oda spent like 10 chapters talking about the cake and it did absolutely nothing. Sanji should have just listened to Capone and put some sort of poison in the cake because it makes absolutely no difference.
I think the suit is supposed to at least partially resolve conflicts with them.
Judge said thought that Sanji could never be a soldier. Yet in the end they gave him their prized vinsmoke technology. Why? Its because they finally acknowledged his strength.
Sanji could have baked the cake and fought Oven
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Its not even about Sanji needing to prove himself.
Oven had so much buildup as a villain that was just wasted. Like I said, fights are often the pay off for conflict in OP. WCI just lacked a good pay off imo. The cake was underwhelming and useless. Oda spent like 10 chapters talking about the cake and it did absolutely nothing. Sanji should have just listened to Capone and put some sort of poison in the cake because it makes absolutely no difference.
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I think the suit is supposed to at least partially resolve conflicts with them.
Judge said thought that Sanji could never be a soldier. Yet in the end they gave him their prized vinsmoke technology. Why? Its because they finally acknowledged his strength.
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...No, it was definitely Zoro. Luffy beat Helmeppo into submission.
OT: Giving Sanji a fight in WCI would have only made that mess of an arc marginally better, but Oda’s said repeatedly that he was trying to write a different kind of story than the rest of the series. Not the only missed opportunity in that arc...
OT: Giving Sanji a fight in WCI would have only made that mess of an arc marginally better, but Oda’s said repeatedly that he was trying to write a different kind of story than the rest of the series. Not the only missed opportunity in that arc...
Something we can agree on. The second paragraph.
It have been badass to see Sanji start taking big mom Pirates out and them trying to figure out was going on. Especially if he combined his stealth speed with the suit stealth. They would have been running scared.
Honestly, I would have loved to seen Sanji get payback on the second oldest brother.
It have been badass to see Sanji start taking big mom Pirates out and them trying to figure out was going on. Especially if he combined his stealth speed with the suit stealth. They would have been running scared.
Honestly, I would have loved to seen Sanji get payback on the second oldest brother.
Yeah, the cake would have been the perfect chance to show off what he learned from the okama during the time skip...that Attack Cuisine style must have a recipe/ingredient that makes something taste so good, the consumer is unfailingly knocked unconscious; I know it goes against his integrity as a chef to use food to purposely harm somebody, but when you’re facing a fucking Yonko, it’s time to get serious.
Actually making a cake that made Big Mom faint would have been hugely helpful for the Straw Hats in their escape and (in my eyes) redeemed Sanji for forcing the whole rescue mission in the first place, so chalk that up to another wasted opportunity.
Actually making a cake that made Big Mom faint would have been hugely helpful for the Straw Hats in their escape and (in my eyes) redeemed Sanji for forcing the whole rescue mission in the first place, so chalk that up to another wasted opportunity.
I think that Oda initial qplan for the arc was to make Sanji shine as a cook because :
-He is a cook because of his kindness -> link to Sora
-His cooking reflects his « father » teaching -> link to Zeff
-His cooking which is the expression of his kindness opposed Judge’s views -> link to his birth
Therefore Oda had to make Sanji’s cooking shine. That’s why I think that Sanji baking the Cake was always the plan. The idea was to make Sanji the hero of the arc thanks to his kindness. He would have prove to his real father that strength is not everything. In that regard, Sanji not fighting Oven or whoever is good writing.
The thing that fucked all that up is Luffy vs Katakuri.
I’m pretty certain that this fight was not planned. Why I think that :
-Katakuri was introduce late in the arc. Luffy’s final arc opponents are generally known in the beginning of the arc.
-Before the final battle, Luffy usually has a clash with his final arc opponent
-The way the fight went on proved that even in Oda mind Luffy was not on that level yet.
-Base on the editor’s comment at jump Festa the arc was suppose to be close the end after the Tea party.
But the Katakuri fight, because Oda need to make what happens out of it interesting, fucked up everything:
-Big Mom, Daifuku, Oven and Smoothie seemed to be highly incompetent
-The Vinsmoke saved Sanji with their strength which undone what happened in the Tea party
-The arc run longer than anticipated which bored a lot of people
-Because Luffy jump in strength and because Oda will probably never depicted Sanji to be roflstomp by Luffy, he had to to give Sanji a power-up. The power-up is the raid suit which again undone what was set in the tea party
-Worst, the cake which was supposed to make Sanji’s kindness shine did not have the impact expected
-Even worst, what made Judge reconsider Sanji’s worth was not Sanji actions but Luffy’s. Judge asked Luffy why he was willing to go this far for Sanji which means that Sanji’s worth is not base on his own actions but on Luffy’s opinion
So no, there was no set up for a Sanji’s fight and certainly not with Oven. Oven became a thing only because Oda had to create a threat to make things interesting.
WCI was a superb arc until Oda decide that he has to showcase Katakuri’s abilities in this very arc.
-He is a cook because of his kindness -> link to Sora
-His cooking reflects his « father » teaching -> link to Zeff
-His cooking which is the expression of his kindness opposed Judge’s views -> link to his birth
Therefore Oda had to make Sanji’s cooking shine. That’s why I think that Sanji baking the Cake was always the plan. The idea was to make Sanji the hero of the arc thanks to his kindness. He would have prove to his real father that strength is not everything. In that regard, Sanji not fighting Oven or whoever is good writing.
The thing that fucked all that up is Luffy vs Katakuri.
I’m pretty certain that this fight was not planned. Why I think that :
-Katakuri was introduce late in the arc. Luffy’s final arc opponents are generally known in the beginning of the arc.
-Before the final battle, Luffy usually has a clash with his final arc opponent
-The way the fight went on proved that even in Oda mind Luffy was not on that level yet.
-Base on the editor’s comment at jump Festa the arc was suppose to be close the end after the Tea party.
But the Katakuri fight, because Oda need to make what happens out of it interesting, fucked up everything:
-Big Mom, Daifuku, Oven and Smoothie seemed to be highly incompetent
-The Vinsmoke saved Sanji with their strength which undone what happened in the Tea party
-The arc run longer than anticipated which bored a lot of people
-Because Luffy jump in strength and because Oda will probably never depicted Sanji to be roflstomp by Luffy, he had to to give Sanji a power-up. The power-up is the raid suit which again undone what was set in the tea party
-Worst, the cake which was supposed to make Sanji’s kindness shine did not have the impact expected
-Even worst, what made Judge reconsider Sanji’s worth was not Sanji actions but Luffy’s. Judge asked Luffy why he was willing to go this far for Sanji which means that Sanji’s worth is not base on his own actions but on Luffy’s opinion
So no, there was no set up for a Sanji’s fight and certainly not with Oven. Oven became a thing only because Oda had to create a threat to make things interesting.
WCI was a superb arc until Oda decide that he has to showcase Katakuri’s abilities in this very arc.
How could Sanji naturally become invisible? That doesn't make sense there. Isn't RS will be reason he unlocks more of his latent genes like his siblings as I presume through RS they learn to use their abilities from them for outside, so Sanji could unlock going invisible on his own and won't need RS anymore for that. Not permanent thing he use for power or needs as shown as he can still fight others without it.
Suit is just for training purposes, but never for power purpose as how it's being used as we didn't see Sanji saying he need suits for power boost when facing Drake or anything of the sort about it.
Well they be coming back later, so chance to see them again and show him how strong he is, so not end of the world and they will always see him like that. From situation they grown to respect him, but in their own 'emotionless' way with his brothers except Reiju.
Suit is just for training purposes, but never for power purpose as how it's being used as we didn't see Sanji saying he need suits for power boost when facing Drake or anything of the sort about it.
Well they be coming back later, so chance to see them again and show him how strong he is, so not end of the world and they will always see him like that. From situation they grown to respect him, but in their own 'emotionless' way with his brothers except Reiju.
How mocking when situation all make sense as he debut as a cook and only way to stop BM is not by power, but hunger since it be BS for them to beat Yonko whether solo or team-up. They aren't at that lvl nor have army to face whole Yonko Crew together.
Guess it's mocking for Sanji beating PO and facing Drake in Wano arc as a way to say Oda 'hates' character when actuality he is one of his favorite ones he is giving development and more shine to as times goes on. WCI have issues, but it wasn't worst arc in the series at all and some mislead themselves thinking it was domination arc to take out BM when it was stated by the characters they weren't ready to do any of that many times even Luffy stated he beat her when he comes back to face her. That should signal type of arc this going then domination fight battle.
Don't think you understand how things were going and PO fight was to show RS off and he can't show everything off if he is saving it for larger threat than PO. You want Sanji to use all his power to beat an threat lvl of YV? Many fans would rage over that. Gotta learn patience with OP as you can't get everything fast, but it doesn't mean Oda is lazy or he hates something or someone.
Not really, he going to faint this arc again with evidence of his past 4 fights and lose to Orochi before needing backup to defeat him in the end.
Guess it's mocking for Sanji beating PO and facing Drake in Wano arc as a way to say Oda 'hates' character when actuality he is one of his favorite ones he is giving development and more shine to as times goes on. WCI have issues, but it wasn't worst arc in the series at all and some mislead themselves thinking it was domination arc to take out BM when it was stated by the characters they weren't ready to do any of that many times even Luffy stated he beat her when he comes back to face her. That should signal type of arc this going then domination fight battle.
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Don't think you understand how things were going and PO fight was to show RS off and he can't show everything off if he is saving it for larger threat than PO. You want Sanji to use all his power to beat an threat lvl of YV? Many fans would rage over that. Gotta learn patience with OP as you can't get everything fast, but it doesn't mean Oda is lazy or he hates something or someone.
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Not really, he going to faint this arc again with evidence of his past 4 fights and lose to Orochi before needing backup to defeat him in the end.