General & Others Jimbei vs Who’s who: Themes in fights

#1
Oda likes setting up a thematic connection between the fights of the straw hats and their arc opponents.

Sometimes the themes are as simple as Girl vs Girl, with Nami vs Kalifa and other times they can be Match up counters such as Usopp vs Perona and at the top it can be straight up ideological differences such as Chopper vs Hogback.

Now here we have Jimbei vs Who's who and if we assume that this is indeed Jimbei's main fight, then we got to ask, what will be the thematic connection between the two?

First let's assume the theme is much stronger than something like Girl vs Girl. I assume the theme is much stronger because oda is setting up an actual past between the two. Obviously when we get the past, we will actually see the theme play out fully and clearly but as of now, let's speculate.

The theme between Jimbei and Who’s who is rank and position. Their first interaction is even specifically about Ranks and positions. Who’s who refers to Jimbei as former Warlord and Jimbei prefers the title “Helmsman of the strawhats”. I believe even their past that Jimbei and Who’s who are going to share will be about Jimbei’s Warlord position and Who’s who wanting that position or envying it in someway. Jimbei is going to represent the perspective of treating ranks and positions as opportunities to have more responsibility since Jimbei became a warlord specifically to take on the responsibility of reducing the prejudice against his people whereas Who’s who is going to treat ranks and positions as ways of gaining power and prestige.


Now it's not a given that since Ranks are the theme of the fight, then Who's who must be on the exact opposite side as Jimbei. For example we've seen Franky vs Pink where the theme of the fight was Machismo and the two fighters were very much on the same side. In fact at one point they just start trying to out macho one another instead of actually fighting. It wasn't a fight about one guy being effeminate while another is macho or anything like that.

Therefore it's not a must that who's who has this perspective on Rank simply because that’s the theme. But I greatly think this is his view. And I think so because he's not a good person really. And I don't mean the cliché "good vs bad", I mean he's not a good person even on one piece standards. In a roundabout way, we can say Pink is a good person since he was so loyal to his men and very remorseful for hurting his wife. Stuff like that. When two good people fight, they tend to be on the same side of the theme but it’s the opposite for when a good and bad person fight. I think Oda has shown us Who's who is not this type of good person at all and he has shown us this specifically when referring to Ranks.

Oda told us this using the Drake double cross. Immediately this entire scenario is an extremely scummy thing. Who's who was playing some long game for multiple chapters lying even to the audience as well as drake and being presented as some kind of rebel in the beast pirates. He was talking about killing queen and not respecting the hierarchy of the beast pirates wanting to challenge The calamities and it seemed cool. It's always cool when there's a rebel within the enemy group, even if they don't actually become good guys. Hence why people liked Ulti so much for talking disrespectfully to kaido even though she's a pure diehard for kaido. The slight rebellion in her was enough to make her a favourite.

And Who's who was DECEPTIVELY presented as the ultimate rebel. And it was all a lie. Who's who doesn't want to kill Queen, he's actively on a mission under queen himself. There's no "Who's who doesn't respect the hierarchy of the beast pirates", he straight up enforces it. Who's who says about Drake "I can't believe a spy rose so high up to even the tobi roppo. It's a disgrace". This man actually puts rankings on a pedestal and respects them so much that he considers it a disgrace when this happens. He's not even a Calamity. The guy is actually wanking just his Tobi roppo rank like its a very big deal to him and he's getting personally offended when it gets bismerched. The guy's entire intro was a lie.

It was an intentional misdirect that Who's who could be the ultimate rebel and people even thought he was like Gin, another of one those Good people who still happen to be enemies. Others even thought that his rebelliousness could lead to him either changing sides or just going rogue and attacking a calamity just Coz he maybe had some really interesting beef with a calamity that explains all his rebelliousness. Nope. He was working for Queen the whole time. And oda knew what he was doing presenting him like this yet he isn’t. He wants us to feel betrayed by this and not see Who’s who as a good person.

Oda knows that Ulti will be liked for her mild rebilliousness and so he knows Who's who will be the biggest draw for his extreme rebilliousness. Oda knows this and that's why the drake double cross works best. It both blindsides drake and blindsides the reader. Who's who is not the cool guy. In fact he's a bad guy. Like an actual bad guy. His association with Queen who's one of the worst guys in the crew and just the general idea of him using such a cheap trick on drake and finally the lying to the audience themselves that he maybe is a Gin or Pink type character but then nope, he's just scum.

This is what convinces me that Who's who is an actual bad person in One piece standards and that's what makes me think he's going to be on the opposite side of Jimbei’s ideology when it comes to Ranks and positions. There’s even a slight nod to this in just their first interaction. Who’s who apologizes for calling Jimbei a warlord when he wants to be called Helmsman. This is fake of course. We’ve established Who’s who is a liar. And there is no way someone who gets off the power that comes from Ranks so much would actually consider Helmsman a better title than Warlord. And so that’s why Oda specifies that their flashback is about Jimbei as a warlord. Who’s who will belittle the helmsman title not realizing that Ranks only matter to Jimbei when referring to the duties associated with the ranks and not simply power and prestige.
 
#5
It is one of those 2 fights that doesn't make any sense right now (the other being Sanji vs. Black Maria)...

Waiting for Brook to sub this fight... Imagine Who's Who thinking that Brook is actually wearing a mask...
 
#7
It is one of those 2 fights that doesn't make any sense right now (the other being Sanji vs. Black Maria)...

Waiting for Brook to sub this fight... Imagine Who's Who thinking that Brook is actually wearing a mask...
It does make sense... this entire thread is explaining how it makes sense

how would brook make more sense to you?
 
#9
Bro if Who's Who fights Brook I'm going to breakdown and fall into depression
Nah it won’t happen
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First let's assume the theme is much stronger than something like Girl vs Girl. I assume the theme is much stronger because oda is setting up an actual past between the two.
Why do we need to assume that the theme is stronger than “Girl v Girl”? That’s the reality from the moment they crossed paths. We don’t need to assume that it’s much stronger that that. It IS much stronger than that lol
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Oda told us this using the Drake double cross. Immediately this entire scenario is an extremely scummy thing. Who's who was playing some long game for multiple chapters lying even to the audience as well as drake and being presented as some kind of rebel in the beast pirates.
Who’s who seems to respect Kaido greatly, Drake is literally a traitor in their organisation, and Who’s who takes part in a scheme to put him as the traitor and infiltrator and yet because we didn’t see it coming or because it was against drake that makes whos who a “scummy” guy?? Nah lol if anything it makes him less of a rebel and more of a reliable subordinate unlike drake.
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He was talking about killing queen and not respecting the hierarchy of the beast pirates wanting to challenge The calamities and it seemed cool.
Mate that “IS” the hierarchy, you can challenge a calamity and if you best them then you get the rank. For that exact reason the calamities, Kaido, Flying 6 and almost every beast pirates are ok with that. Same as the grunts wanting to move up to F6 or headliner level. If you have the skills and accept the challenges you can move up. This doesn’t make Whos who a bad guy. You just think he’s a bad guy because he lead to drake getting caught. If anything he’s cunning and smart, knows how to play the game.
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Oda knows that Ulti will be liked for her mild rebilliousness and so he knows Who's who will be the biggest draw for his extreme rebilliousness. Oda knows this and that's why the drake double cross works best. It both blindsides drake and blindsides the reader. Who's who is not the cool guy. In fact he's a bad guy. Like an actual bad guy. His association with Queen who's one of the worst guys in the crew and just the general idea of him using such a cheap trick on drake and finally the lying to the audience themselves that he maybe is a Gin or Pink type character but then nope, he's just scum.
Bro what is this lol?
:choppawhat:
So because who’s who double crossed drake he’s not cool? This is purely opinion lol he’s not a bad guy either I mean in terms of the story yes he’s an antagonist but you’re saying he’s a bad guy just because he outed drake lol come orrrrrrrn dawggggg.

who’s who’s is GOATED.

Him and Sasaki portrayed to be at the top and don’t fear challenging the best for a spot as commanders.
He walked at the front of the pack when they were first revealed.
He’s got the Saber tooth fruit which is beastly idc what anyone says.
He’s got two bad bitches on his sides at all times.
He’s loyal to Kaido, how is Queen one of the worst in the crew? All the beast pirates we’ve seen so far as loyal to Kaido, they would all do the same as Queen, maybe even worse or maybe even quicker seeing as Queen likes to play around.
Oda isn’t trying to make Who’s who less likeable than Ulti just because he outed Drake, it’s so that we didn’t see it coming. He isn’t trying to say who’s who is a bad guy or isn’t cool he’s the GOAT.


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#10
Add to that, Jinbe's a fishman, and Who's who is a catman... but little does the catman know is that Jinbe is a sharkman who will proceed to eat the catman until he's full up and could eat no more.

And something something Jinbe's fat.
 
#12
Nah it won’t happen
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Why do we need to assume that the theme is stronger than “Girl v Girl”? That’s the reality from the moment they crossed paths. We don’t need to assume that it’s much stronger that that. It IS much stronger than that lol
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Who’s who seems to respect Kaido greatly, Drake is literally a traitor in their organisation, and Who’s who takes part in a scheme to put him as the traitor and infiltrator and yet because we didn’t see it coming or because it was against drake that makes whos who a “scummy” guy?? Nah lol if anything it makes him less of a rebel and more of a reliable subordinate unlike drake.
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Mate that “IS” the hierarchy, you can challenge a calamity and if you best them then you get the rank. For that exact reason the calamities, Kaido, Flying 6 and almost every beast pirates are ok with that. Same as the grunts wanting to move up to F6 or headliner level. If you have the skills and accept the challenges you can move up. This doesn’t make Whos who a bad guy. You just think he’s a bad guy because he lead to drake getting caught. If anything he’s cunning and smart, knows how to play the game.
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Bro what is this lol?
:choppawhat:
So because who’s who double crossed drake he’s not cool? This is purely opinion lol he’s not a bad guy either I mean in terms of the story yes he’s an antagonist but you’re saying he’s a bad guy just because he outed drake lol come orrrrrrrn dawggggg.

who’s who’s is GOATED.

Him and Sasaki portrayed to be at the top and don’t fear challenging the best for a spot as commanders.
He walked at the front of the pack when they were first revealed.
He’s got the Saber tooth fruit which is beastly idc what anyone says.
He’s got two bad bitches on his sides at all times.
He’s loyal to Kaido, how is Queen one of the worst in the crew? All the beast pirates we’ve seen so far as loyal to Kaido, they would all do the same as Queen, maybe even worse or maybe even quicker seeing as Queen likes to play around.
Oda isn’t trying to make Who’s who less likeable than Ulti just because he outed Drake, it’s so that we didn’t see it coming. He isn’t trying to say who’s who is a bad guy or isn’t cool he’s the GOAT.


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A Surprisingly long response that DOES NOT mention the theme of the fight.

hehehe, I make a post about the theme, the entire response has nothing to do with the theme.

Classic
 
#13
A Surprisingly long response that DOES NOT mention the theme of the fight.

hehehe, I make a post about the theme, the entire response has nothing to do with the theme.

Classic
And because of that you’re just going to ignore everything I said because I didn’t mention the word theme 98 times hehehehe classic. Bro half of your post if not more has nothing to do with “themes”. You just not have read my post because I’m responding to your thoughts on the “theme”.
 
#14
And because of that you’re just going to ignore everything I said because I didn’t mention the word theme 98 times hehehehe classic. Bro half of your post if not more has nothing to do with “themes”. You just not have read my post because I’m responding to your thoughts on the “theme”.
Your response has nothing to do with the point of the fight. I said the reason Jimbei and Who’s who are fighting is their opposing opinion on Rank and position.

Nothing you said actually addresses this. So what do you want me to argue? That Who’s who is in fact “cool”? Is that what you want me to argue about? Because my entire OP was about whether Who’s who is cool or not?
 
#16
Your response has nothing to do with the point of the fight. I said the reason Jimbei and Who’s who are fighting is their opposing opinion on Rank and position.

Nothing you said actually addresses this. So what do you want me to argue? That Who’s who is in fact “cool”? Is that what you want me to argue about? Because my entire OP was about whether Who’s who is cool or not?
Bro my entire post wasn’t about whether on not who’s who is cool that’s literally the last line. That just proves you didn’t read my post. I’m questioning things you’ve said in your original post, why bother making the thread if you can’t be bothered to read others or even be up for a debate. I’m not here to “argue” with you.

like the basis of your post just derives from what you believe to be who’s who stature and opinion, I’m providing counter points and then you don’t even read my post because I say who’s who is cool at the end? Like what even is this? You didn’t even respond to anyone else who bothered to read and comment on your post?
 
#17
Bro my entire post wasn’t about whether on not who’s who is cool that’s literally the last line. That just proves you didn’t read my post. I’m questioning things you’ve said in your original post, why bother making the thread if you can’t be bothered to read others or even be up for a debate. I’m not here to “argue” with you.

like the basis of your post just derives from what you believe to be who’s who stature and opinion, I’m providing counter points and then you don’t even read my post because I say who’s who is cool at the end? Like what even is this? You didn’t even respond to anyone else who bothered to read and comment on your post?
Okay show me where you address the fact that Oda makes sure the entire point of Jimbei and Who’s whos first interaction is a discussion about Ranks and positions

You’re saying the theme isn’t Rank and position like I argued so then address that directly. What is Oda doing by having these two people meet and they are immediately talking about what ranks and position they have. And then it turns out Who’s who is a person obsessed with Ranks all along from when we met him.

Why don’t you show me where exactly in you post that you addressed what the theme is and why it’s not what I said it was
 
#18
:choppawhat:
Bro what are you actually talking about lol are you reading anything I’m saying? I’m questions the things you are saying, I’m not agreeing with you.


Okay show me where you address the fact that Oda makes sure the entire point of Jimbei and Who’s whos first interaction is a discussion about Ranks and positions
I didn’t because I don’t think that’s what Oda is doing that’s why I’m questioning the things you’re saying. Like you’re putting words in my mouth and then arguing with what you think I said. You’re literally arguing with yourself lol? Who’s who is saying that he saw Jinbe a while ago when he “WAS” a warlord. He didn’t know that Jinbe joined another crew. He even states former warlord of the sea. This isn’t about rank or position he’s just seen Jinbe before and when he saw Jinbe that was his title but now it’s his former title.

You’re saying the theme isn’t Rank and position like I argued so then address that directly. What is Oda doing by having these two people meet and they are immediately talking about what ranks and position they have. And then it turns out Who’s who is a person obsessed with Ranks all along from when we met him.
when did I say what the theme is or isn’t? I don’t even think you know what you’re talking about that’s why I’m questions what you’re saying lol, you’re making out that who’s who cares so much about rank and position because of the way Jinbe responsed. I think you’re literally dragging this theme thing a bit too violently, you’re trying to use your own opinion of the character to further your argument that’s what I’m not understanding, who’s who is scummy, doesn’t care about hierarchy yada yada. Like all of the things you’re saying are true it’s just your opinion. You’re reading the manga and trying to twist it to bend to your argument but it’s not working lol

Why don’t you show me where exactly in you post that you addressed what the theme is and why it’s not what I said it was
why would I? You’re the one talking about themes, I’m questioning what you’re saying and the things you’re saying. You never asked the question “What do you guys think the theme is?” So why would I be addressing what it is? Your post is just you saying what you think is happening your opinion on what Oda is doing and what you think theme is. You’ve used words such as assume and must etc but you never asked what does anybody think the theme is? You’re asking me that now because you don’t want to read my post and then you can try and argue about how I’m wrong about what the theme is. I don’t have an opinion on the theme of the fight, you do. That’s why you made this thread. No?
 
#20
why would I? You’re the one talking about themes,
Okay so we are done. You are not talking about themes. Which is exactly what I said in my first reply. I make a whole thread about themes, you make a whole response about anything but themes.

I said this is what you did and you started arguing that I didn’t read your post. I read it. But I didn’t care because you know, you’re not actually addressing the point of the thread so why should I care?

So we are done. You aren’t talking about what I’m talking about so we can’t continue any further
 
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